lysanderxiii
Member
Well, if the "shot-placement-is-all-that-matters" crowd is right, then .22LR is perfectly adequate.
I have my doubts.
I have my doubts.
Flame suit on: 22LR semi-auto for home defense.
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Walt Sherrill
Member
lysanderxii said:
IF the "shot-placement-is-all-that-matters" crowd defines proper shot placement as including shot penetration of at least 12", they may be right. The problem with that whole viewpoint is that MANY larger (than .22) caliber rounds don't penetrate that deeply.
While it's relatively easy to place shots well at the range, it's harder when the target is moving, or shooting back, has caught you by surprise, comes at you from from behind etc., etc. And the targets at the range aren't going to hurt YOU if you miss.
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Vern Humphrey
Member
"Lethal" and "effective" are two different things. The .38 Long Colt was lethal, given a hit in the right place. But when you're wrestling with a bolo-armed Moro Juramentado at bad breath distance, it isn't effective -- that is, it doesn't stop the fight soon enough to keep you from getting seriously sliced up.
Gun Master
Member
We're not sticking to " ....22lr-semi-auto-for-home-defense."
If you want to recommend something else (which I would), start another thread, maybe ?
But, there are certain people, guns, and other situations that are possible. Maybe not for everybody's forte.
If you want to recommend something else (which I would), start another thread, maybe ?
But, there are certain people, guns, and other situations that are possible. Maybe not for everybody's forte.
My wife has carpal tunnel, and has gone through revolvers and SAs, found the trigger pull on the LCR 22 mag too high, shoots the SR22 great, very accurate, but it is a rimfire, she settled on a sig p238, easy to operate the slide, low recoil, .380 and she hits what she aims at. I would recommend having her try this weapon, while the recoil is higher than a 22, it is easy to manage. If it does not work for her, than an SR22 is a decent pistol, and has decent sights and my wifes is extremely reliable with CCI mini-mags
My major concern is the reliability of the Primer for a Rimfire. I have not had issues with CCI or Eley but other brands have been spotty.
If you're talking about a pistol, and it's all you have, well, it's better than a rock. A rifle would fair better in my opinion but still wouldn't consider just 22 LR. I prefer 22 WMR, if you can pull it off though there aren't many 22 WMR semiauto rifles.
I have a centerfire FN 5.7 pistol which some claim is similar to a WMR rifle, but the ballistics are going to be more devastating. The biggest problem is the cost. In my case I dot care since I have it already plus 1950 rounds of ammo.
Some say the PMR 30'is a poor man's FN 5.7 but it is still just a 22 WMR and it's velocity is 300 less than an FN 5.7. Plus it's still a Rimfire.
Any person within reason would stop if a gun were pointed at them, though most breakins are likely from drug addicts high on drugs. You'd better hope you have a CNS hit, hit to the neck, or multiple hits to fill the chest cavity with air and blood.
If you're talking about a pistol, and it's all you have, well, it's better than a rock. A rifle would fair better in my opinion but still wouldn't consider just 22 LR. I prefer 22 WMR, if you can pull it off though there aren't many 22 WMR semiauto rifles.
I have a centerfire FN 5.7 pistol which some claim is similar to a WMR rifle, but the ballistics are going to be more devastating. The biggest problem is the cost. In my case I dot care since I have it already plus 1950 rounds of ammo.
Some say the PMR 30'is a poor man's FN 5.7 but it is still just a 22 WMR and it's velocity is 300 less than an FN 5.7. Plus it's still a Rimfire.
Any person within reason would stop if a gun were pointed at them, though most breakins are likely from drug addicts high on drugs. You'd better hope you have a CNS hit, hit to the neck, or multiple hits to fill the chest cavity with air and blood.
I'm pretty much a .45 acp guy for defensive/offensive handguns. But, I am recovering from major surgery. I simply can't physically handle the weight and recoil. I thought about using my Glock 42, but even the snappy recoil from that would be too much.
So, I am currently using this.
It's normal use is taking jackrabbits on the run (yes, I do miss a fair amount, but it is darned challenging). So I'm pretty sure I can dump a magazine into a human are even a fair distance with relative ease.
So, I am currently using this.
It's normal use is taking jackrabbits on the run (yes, I do miss a fair amount, but it is darned challenging). So I'm pretty sure I can dump a magazine into a human are even a fair distance with relative ease.
Monster Zero
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Sure, there are other choices. If a .22 is what you have, that's what you have. As Jeff Quinn says, "People don't like having extra holes in them."
Vern Humphrey
Member
But as I have said before. most disasters happen because people PLAN to have disasters. If all you have is a .22 when the chips are down, it's because you PLANNED to have nothing but a .22.
I just came back from the range today, commenting to my friend about how fast I threw 10 head shots with my Mark II Ruger Target Competition rapidLy at 7 yards. I also did 5 neck shots from 25yards. If you can fire it fast and accurately enough at a moving target, though, you’d be deadly.
I would venture to say, I’d prefer a 22 Magnum over an LR. RECOIL isn’t much more and it’s more potent.
Even better would be a 22 LR rifle with a 20-30 round magazine. A longer barrel with a high capacity would be easily lethal.
I would venture to say, I’d prefer a 22 Magnum over an LR. RECOIL isn’t much more and it’s more potent.
Even better would be a 22 LR rifle with a 20-30 round magazine. A longer barrel with a high capacity would be easily lethal.
Well heck then, something like a Ruger Charger with a laser sight and a 50 round mag would be ideal.
Still, once I'm healed up I'll be going back to my 1911A1
Monster Zero
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What if I'm elderly and have arthritis in my hands and just frankly can't shoot anything else?
a_canadian
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What you need is a tactical nuclear device disguised as an oxygen cannister, with little wheels and a handle. If anyone gives you trouble just blow the thing. That's planning to win. At least a moral victory.
MedWheeler
Member
jeepnik writes:
I know I'd certainly feel well-equipped for home defense with such a setup, especially assuming it's loaded with a quality round, such as CCI MiniMags.
I know I'd certainly feel well-equipped for home defense with such a setup, especially assuming it's loaded with a quality round, such as CCI MiniMags.
Folks do often poo poo the idea of a ,22 lr for defense. Home or street. But let's face it things happen. Like me you have medical issues and it's all you can handle, or you get old (if you're lucky it will happen to even the youngest members here). As I mentioned I'm using a Ruger MKI for the house and an NAA mini in .22 mag for street.
In other cases, it is simply all one has. And in other situations things like the above mention high capacity, lase sighted Charger are ideal.
The best we can do if provide good information to those asking. Suggesting other things, or telling folks that they are flat wrong isn't in the best interest of those needing information.
The same sort of thing happens with shotguns. While the current "is a 20 ga enough" thread seems to be populated by folks who realize that not everyone can fire a twelve gauge sawed off shotgun like a terminator.
But by the same token, when use of a .410 is mentioned folks are fast to put it down. But there are people who are comfortable with a pump shotgun but can't handle the recoil of a 20 ga. Getting old suck, getting hurt of sick sucks. We just do the best we can.
In other cases, it is simply all one has. And in other situations things like the above mention high capacity, lase sighted Charger are ideal.
The best we can do if provide good information to those asking. Suggesting other things, or telling folks that they are flat wrong isn't in the best interest of those needing information.
The same sort of thing happens with shotguns. While the current "is a 20 ga enough" thread seems to be populated by folks who realize that not everyone can fire a twelve gauge sawed off shotgun like a terminator.
But by the same token, when use of a .410 is mentioned folks are fast to put it down. But there are people who are comfortable with a pump shotgun but can't handle the recoil of a 20 ga. Getting old suck, getting hurt of sick sucks. We just do the best we can.
MedWheeler
Member
CDR_Glock writes:
Most break-ins are perpetrated as pre-planned events, or as "crimes of opportunity." While many of the perpetrators may be users, it's not when they're high that they conduct most of their criminal entries. It's when they are not, and are looking to support their habit, that they do. But most burglars are simply looking for goods that can be turned into money, or money itself. Virtually none of them would "soldier on" with their bad deeds once fired on, even if it's with "only" a .22 caliber weapon. It's been my finding that even those "jacked up" on something are so skittish that they, too, will typically bolt when fired on (if they can.)
The reason we hear more about the ones committed by perpetrators that are "high on something" is because it's so far from the norm. We generally don't hear about burglaries in general, even in our own cities and towns.
From your post at number 185, it sounds like you'd be well-prepared against most intruders with a .22 caliber.
My go-to long gun at home is indeed a 10/22 with a Tapco/Intrafuse stock setup and Ruger's 25-round magazine. Of course, I'd only use high-quality ammunition and, for me, that's CCI MiniMags.
Most break-ins are perpetrated as pre-planned events, or as "crimes of opportunity." While many of the perpetrators may be users, it's not when they're high that they conduct most of their criminal entries. It's when they are not, and are looking to support their habit, that they do. But most burglars are simply looking for goods that can be turned into money, or money itself. Virtually none of them would "soldier on" with their bad deeds once fired on, even if it's with "only" a .22 caliber weapon. It's been my finding that even those "jacked up" on something are so skittish that they, too, will typically bolt when fired on (if they can.)
The reason we hear more about the ones committed by perpetrators that are "high on something" is because it's so far from the norm. We generally don't hear about burglaries in general, even in our own cities and towns.
From your post at number 185, it sounds like you'd be well-prepared against most intruders with a .22 caliber.
My go-to long gun at home is indeed a 10/22 with a Tapco/Intrafuse stock setup and Ruger's 25-round magazine. Of course, I'd only use high-quality ammunition and, for me, that's CCI MiniMags.
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22LR would be my last choice for home-defense. I have a 10mm pistol with 16 rounds on tap for that. My wife has a 9mm pistol with 17 rounds on tap available.
If .22lr was the only thing I could defend myself with, and I was forced to use it, I would be sure to load it with solid point, 40 grain, with the hottest load possible. I think Winchester X makes a decent one. CCI also makes one, too.
It's important to get a solid bullet for .22 because you need to maximize penetration. Any hollow-point .22, no matter how hot it will be, will not get decent penetration, and may even just anger an assailant.
Then I would get as high a capacity manner of shooting them as possible, just make sure the weapon cycles rounds nicely with whatever ammo you're using.
If .22lr was the only thing I could defend myself with, and I was forced to use it, I would be sure to load it with solid point, 40 grain, with the hottest load possible. I think Winchester X makes a decent one. CCI also makes one, too.
It's important to get a solid bullet for .22 because you need to maximize penetration. Any hollow-point .22, no matter how hot it will be, will not get decent penetration, and may even just anger an assailant.
Then I would get as high a capacity manner of shooting them as possible, just make sure the weapon cycles rounds nicely with whatever ammo you're using.
I think there are a lot of people in America right now who have never owned, handled, or shot guns considering becoming gun owners. Since they don't understand about ballistics, they're hope is they can use the lowest caliber available because the idea of shooting a gun, in general, is kind of scary for them. They may be putting their toes in the water.
What these people should do is go to a range and rent a 9mm and shoot some regular target ammo. This would put them at ease.
Deltaboy1984
Member
My Mom a tiny woman and she been a m-1 carbide fan for years!
Arrrgh. My mistake speaking of revolvers in the auto loader section.
From my hands on time with my friend's Keltec PMR30, I'd like something like that when the time comes.
I normally carry a 1911 95% of the time except in the summer when I dress with lighter clothes than I carry a Keltec PMR 30. My experience has shown me that if I load 25 rounds to the magazine instead of the 30 rounds it will not create a failure to feed. With 22 magnum I have yet to experience a failure to fire as you do with 22 lr. I have shot over a 1000 rounds without a hitch. I feel very comfortable carrying the keltic as it weighs in at 19 ounces loaded and if 50 round with the extra magazine is not enough I have no business carrying.
The beauty of the 22 magnum is that the recoil is definitely less which will make for better accuracy in a very stressful situation. But if I had no choice and had to use a 22 lr handgun I would make sure that it would be loaded with high end ammo like eley, RWS, lapua or wolf ammo.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Then those are conditions that caused you to make that plan. But since I'm 50% disabled with arthritis, I find it hard to believe very many people are limited to a .22 by arthritis.
goldpelican
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...and make sure you fire a thousand of them to ensure you've picked a reliable brand that doesn't have priming issues. I recently bought 10 gallons of mixed brass from an indoor range - out of the two buckets, I must have pulled a dozen live 22LR with firing pin indents. I ran a few of them through my 22LR rifle - half of them fired on the second try, the rest were just outright duds. Do you really want that 1% chance that you're going to pull the trigger and just hear "click" when your life most depends on it?
As a side note I should also mention I found a Federal HST 9mm self defence factory load with a dented primer in the same 10 gallons... I tried it on my next range trip and it did not go off. Genuine centerfire dud - in a specific self defense loading, not a target ammo where a dud would be forgivable.. Not sure if it's back in the range bag or whether I flicked it off the bench onto the range floor. Being range pickup from someone else there's no batch number, if had been one I had bought I would have posted it in to Federal.
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