Biggest recent flop? I nominate the Sig P250

I've never even bothered to dry-fire a P250, but have assumed one goes bang reliably. It might be a great deal.

I read somewhere that the R51 has been fixed, but am unsure many care at this point. Reputation is everything in a firearm's sales.

Not at all recent, but I clearly remember all the gun magazine writers desperately trying to compliment the Colt All American 2000 9mm, strangely released a full 10 years ahead of schedule in 1990. It's still my gold-standard for public failure in the firearms biz.

The 250 looked good but wasn't it a dak pistol? I know it was the first release by sig of there shot at modular actions and frames. But I can't see buying what amounts to a prototype design that's been discontinued.

It's conventional DAO, but reputed to be only a 6lb. pull. I'd try one but fear I'd like it and feel compelled to buy one for the modest price they command.

The p250 actually works and is more of an underrated gun than a flop in my opinion. Like any new gun, sig had a few problems when they first released the p250 but it didn’t take long to rectify the problems. The biggest gripe from sig fans was the long dao trigger pull, but strangely enough nobody really complains about Kahr pistols and they are the king of long dao semiauto’s. Also the modular concept might have been ahead of its time. As far as worse, one pistol comes to mind for recently and further back in the past. Yep, you guessed it, the Remington R51. One would almost have to intentionally make a gun flop to beat the R51

I remember selling them at a Big Box gun store a few years ago (PT). They were on sale for $349.99 and great competition for S & W SD9's and Ruger P95's. They weren't a great gun (I'm sorry but the triggers sucked) but they were a Sig, dependable and fairly well put together. Then Sandy Hook happened. Sig jacked their prices on everything, and P250's were going for $549.99 (about the price of the 2022 BEFORE Sandy Hook) and we couldnt GIVE them away. Sig was one of the first companies to raise prices after Sandy Hook and one of the last to go back down. Anyone at that point they were perhaps the most overpriced pistols on the Planet.

Two issues essentially doomed the P250: early models had a light-strike problem that seriously damaged the gun's reputation, and; the P250 may be the ultimate DAO pistol, introduced at a time when nobody wanted DAO pistols.

As a true DAO design, the P250 is excellent. The trigger weight falls right between a Glock's 5.5 lbs. and the original M&P's 6.5 lbs. Since there is no free lunch in physics, the relatively light trigger weight is achieved by a long pull. The trigger is very pleasing to most shooters accustomed to long trigger pulls such as encountered on revolvers, but is seriously challenging to shooters used to the short trigger pulls typical of striker-fired pistols.

Ever shorter and lighter triggers clearly dominate today's gun world. The P250 was clearly an outlier on that basis, but it perfectly satisfied the traditional parameters of a self defense gun that provided both safety and immediate availability.

Yes, I own a P250 and it is the best 15-shot revolver I have ever owned.

gc70 summed up the P250 beautifully. I’ve been tempted because many parts, including magazines are the same as the Sig P320 so its not as big a risk as some discontinued firearms.

A buddy of mine carries a P250 daily. I offered him one of my 320's in trade to give him an upgrade, whereas I'd just use the 250 as a loaner/demo gun in classes, and he had all of the grip and slide/barrel modules. He fired the 320 a few times and turned down the trade. He's more comfortable carrying a longer trigger, even though a guy like me might see it as a disadvantage... So there ARE those guys out there...

There's a reason it didn't do well, and a reason it's discontinued. The Ruger P345 comes to mind as another flop, although not nearly as recent, and the Sig P224. The Remington pistols flopped for different reasons than the 250, in my opinion.

If I consider the P250's "failure" to be driven by the fact it was a "commercialized prototype," then I could argue the Ruger LCP Gen 1 and LC9 were in the same stroke as the P250 - it didn't take long before people were demanding upgrades and changes, hence the LC380, LC9s, LC9s Pro, LCP Gen 2, LCP Custom, and LCP II. Ruger sold a boat load of the LCP Gen 1's and LC9's, so not many folks would consider them a flop, but there were SO many buyers who were disappointed in these first gen pistols who were very content with the subsequent generations/revisions.

How could I forget about the Bren Ten? Yeah that was another flop. It was probably the worst rollout of a pistol for several reasons. There where magazine problems so people had pistols with no mags, talk about a whoopsie lol

The P250, to me, was a great stepping stone for the P320.

It was doomed because most people packing a polymer pistol prefer it to be striker fired. The gun itself was very solid.

I do prefer the 320 in every way, but the 250 isn't a bad gun. Certainly not the cluster that the R51 turned out to be.

Like others have said, magazines, grip frames, and barrels shouldn't be an issue for a long long time. It's not a terrible buy at a good price.

The original LC9 was a flop IMO. Worst trigger ever.
The only gun I ever traded off, don't know what I was thinking when I bought it.

I don't think the P250 was necessarily a troublesome pistol or a bad design, just that as gc70 pointed out, was probably better suited to shooters accustomed to DA revolvers than most people looking for a shorter trigger pull that's found in a striker fired, traditional DA/SA, or SAO pistol. Some of the early P250s that I checked out definitely had a very long trigger pull that could also be somewhat gritty and uneven. This didn't really appeal to me at the time though I did like the modular design and the ability to swap out grip modules and the caliber exchange kits.

The Caracal was a major disaster. There are still stickies and recall notices posted on gun forums after four years.

I thought the only reason DAO full size guns existed was a LE crutch for those that wanted to keep their revolvers. Seems like that market dried up about 20 years ago in the small towns, and 30 or more in the cities. I think the market for DAO is in very small pocket guns. Hard to imagine a good use for a full size DOA, or even a midsize.

If you want a DAO pistol, the P250 is an underrated gem. I suspect the problem is that pretty much everyone who wanted a DAO pistol has already bought one.

The R51 seems to be the king of the recent flops, though.

Reviews on the Steyr gen 4 series are still positive. Bubbits designed it and the Caracal (gulp).

M

I, for one, prefer DAO for potential high stress situations.
P250 for things that go bang in the night:

3953 for CC:

Got a P250c 9mm. Only plastic gun I ever bought. Its a nice piece once you get used to the trigger.
Wouldnt pick up an R51 if I saw it laying free in a ditch.

Well....maybe just to show people how much better my original Model 51 is, I guess.

Oh, I know this is a handgun thread, but how out the Taurus CT carbines? On the cover of Guns and Ammo, then discontinued after less than a year with zero explanation- and never a spare magazine to be found......

Remington R51 deserves a mention here as does the Remington RP9.
Remington 783 probably also qualifies....as does the 770.

Ruger American pistol
Beretta PX4

I don't know if I'd say they're flops but they certainly aren't competing well.

I can think of several over rated this s that should have flopped like the HK USP. If it wasn't an HK it wouldn't have sold well at all imo.


It's hard to judge sometimes because on the internet almost every firearm is re Represented and almost everyone views these forums.

My vote goes to the Honor guard sub compact 9mm. Basically a direct copy of the Shield for all intents and purposes.

Most shops around here are giving them away.

VoodooMountain said:

Remington R51 deserves a mention here as does the Remington RP9.
Remington 783 probably also qualifies....as does the 770.

Ruger American pistol
Beretta PX4

I don't know if I'd say they're flops but they certainly aren't competing well.

I can think of several over rated this s that should have flopped like the HK USP. If it wasn't an HK it wouldn't have sold well at all imo.


It's hard to judge sometimes because on the internet almost every firearm is re Represented and almost everyone views these forums.

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Anything Remington has potential to flop anymore, they even managed to mess up the legendary 870 over the last couple of years. The ruger American and px4 don’t sell well but they are both good pistols that for whatever reason don’t compete as well as others in their genre. I have to disagree with the usp statement, while expensive it really is a tough gun to beat for reliability and durability. Besides the price tag, heavy da trigger pull and blocky appearance it definitely earned its great reputation. It is not my favorite gun but I would definitely take a usp over a lot of other guns that sell well to this day. There just aren’t many handguns one can say is leaps and bounds above a usp as a fighting pistol.