loading 9mm & 40 question

There is nothing wrong with HS-6 for loading the 9mm, it does very well there. I use W221 for 9mm range ammo and either HS-6 or Longshot for more serious work. I'm about to try W572 when I get off my butt and do it lol.

Sorry I haven't tried either of the powders you asked about because W231/HP-38 works well for me.

Personally, I favor WSF over HS-6 as WSF is more flexible in maintaining accuracy at lower powder charges. For decades, I have used WSF for full power loads but BE-86 is replacing WSF due to greater accuracy with similar flexibility maintained at lower powder charges.

While BE-86 has produced very accurate 9mm and 40S&W loads for me, faster burning Sport Pistol should be better suited for mild paper punching loads.

As you can see in above comparison picture, Sport Pistol granules are very consistent (Think N320 cut in thin granules). Based on my testing, Sport Pistol charges are similar to W231/HP-38 and is the best metering powder hands down with less than .05 gr variance (W231/HP-38 meters with less than .1 gr variance in comparison). 10 drops from Pro Auto Disk, Sport Pistol metered with .04 gr range with most charges dropping with .02 gr variance! This is simply unbelievable!

If range testing continues to do well with 380ACP, 40S&W and 45ACP, Sport Pistol may be replacing W231/HP-38.

Here's my initial load development and range testing with RMR 115 gr FMJ - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-alliant-sport-pistol.816514/page-5#post-10598431

Perhaps Paul from Alliant can tell us exact burn rate of Sport Pistol but my best guess is around Titegroup/N320/W231/HP-38.

bds said:

If range testing continues to do well with 380ACP, 40S&W and 45ACP, Sport Pistol may be replacing W231/HP-38.

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Wow, that's really saying something. Please keep us updated on those tests. I'm a huge fan of W231 but always willing to use a better performing powder.

bds is spot on regarding the burn speed and charging characteristics of Sport Pistol(TM). It is very close to N320, American Select(R), and Win231/HP 38. Titegroup is a little different, but the P/V ratio is pretty close in 9mm Luger and 40S&W. The charge weights are a bit different with Titegroup, and all of them for that matter. Please follow load recommendations for each individually.
We are receiving pretty favorable feedback on the new powder.
Shoot well,
Paul

You can make a wide range of powders work in 9mm.

HS-6 is a good candidate and you're already familiar with it.

I would start using Sport Pistol in preference to Bullseye or BE-86 if I didn't already have all the Bullseye I should ever need.

I've loaded a lot of 9mm with HP-38 and, frankly, I'm less than impressed with it. This is because the range between a load that won't work the action at all and one that produces pressure signs is about three-tenths of a grain. I've been using Hi-Skor 800X in 9mm and so far really like it. More forgiving than HP-38 in my gun and since I throw charges light and trickle up to the desired weight, the poor metering of 800X doesn't bother me, but when it is used up, I'll switch to the Bullseye I have on hand and use it.

I’ve used both Win231/HP38 and recently tried and fell in love with BE86.

I know nothing about Sport Pistol but the BE86/124 gr RMR bullet combo gets raves for being a nice load to shoot. I find it much less “snappy”than my loads with Win231/HP38. Normally I’m not one to buy into hype but if you’re considering BE86 try it with 124 gr bullets. You may really like the load.

hdwhit said:

I've loaded a lot of 9mm with HP-38 and, frankly, I'm less than impressed with it. This is because the range between a load that won't work the action at all and one that produces pressure signs is about three-tenths of a grain.

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A HUGE +1. This is very important point that frustrates many reloaders.

Powders have different burn characteristics and especially for 9mm with small case volume, published start to max powder charges can often range by only a few tenths of a grain. This makes for a narrow powder charge window for accuracy node that can be overshadowed by other reloading factors such as OAL variance, bullet seating depth and bullet setback.

Remember, it's not finished OAL/bullet seating depth but "chambered" OAL/bullet seating depth that ultimately determines accuracy of our loads. So check your finished rounds for neck tension/bullet setback as with 9mm sensitive to small changes in reloading variables, if your finished rounds experience significant bullet setback variance, your powder work up/range test accuracy results can essentially be meaningless.



As you can see in the above picture, this narrow powder charge window for accuracy node for 9mm was made evident in my IMR Target powder work up with accuracy node appearing with .2 gr powder charge range with IMR Target that already metered with .2 gr variance! If range test was done with pistol that contributed shooter input, I doubt I would have been able to identify the accuracy node of 4.2-4.3 gr charge.

Because of this, many reloaders look for powders that are more "flexible" in regards to chamber pressure build and prefer slower burn rate powders (Slower than Unique/Universal/BE-86, etc.) that are less affected by reloading variables like OAL/bullet seating depth variance. Powders such as BE-86, WSF, etc. have shown this flexibility.

I have high hopes for Sport Pistol as its ability to meter better than W231/HP-38 reduces/eliminates one key reloading variable of powder charge variance.

Don't shoot .40 so no help there.
I really like WSF for 9mm. works well from low-mid (1000fps) to high. Not as much vel on top as BE86 but a little more flexible, at least for me.
Not as "snappy" as HP38.
CFE-P also shoots well for me but is happier on the higher side of the charge range.

Walkalong and BDS;

What charge(s) are you guys using with BE-86 and 115 gr bullets for 9mm? I'm using RMR FMJs, and looking for a good load.

Thanks

I tend to use shorter 1.130"-1.135" OAL with 115/124 gr FMJ/RN bullets and 5.2 gr of BE-86 has produced very accurate loads.

For my Lone Wolf barrel with no leade, I am using 1.110"-1.115" OAL.

I have been using BE-86 for 9mm and 45 ACP. For 9mm I’m using 5.0 gr with RMR 124 gr JHP, which is a rather rather low power load, but I have several cases that have been reloaded 11 times (currently workin on 12th). For 45 ACP I’ve been using 185 gr JHPs with 7.6 gr of BE-86, which is closer to max than my 9mm loads are. There is not much load data on BE-86 but it is relatively close to Unique. I like it and price is pretty good.

Now I'm going to have to buy some BE-86, thanks a lot guys lol...

ArchAngelCD said:

Now I'm going to have to buy some BE-86, thanks a lot guys lol...

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You are very welcome.

Really, you won't regret buying BE-86. IMHO, it's that good. I consider it the modern Unique that meters well.

Same as not regretting buying Promo either as I am happily approaching my 5th jug. 7 years ago, I wasn't sure about then new Promo but now, I readily recommend it for 9mm and 45ACP but BE-86 for 40S&W.

And based on my initial testing, Sport Pistol is showing good promise. Who knows, Promo - Sport Pistol - BE-86 may end up being my pistol powder trinity for retirement.

I'm just an old curmudgeon geek, who ain't budgin from Unique!

I am a fan of BE86. I have used it in 380, 9, 40, 45acp, 357mag, and 44mag. It works well in all of them, although in 45acp it likes being at the top end of the charge range. In 357 and 44, it will not give magnum velocity, but it makes a reasonably stout plinking load. If I could only have one pistol powder, it would be BE86.

BE-86 works well in 40s&w. I recently documented some BE-86 loads from 5.6gr to 7.3gr with 165gr FMJRNFP pulled bullets. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/buying-pulled-bullets.822450/page-3#post-10663737

Following is a quote from an Alliant Reloading post alluding to BE-86 and 40S&W:

Alliant Reloading said:

I am glad you guys are having success with BE-86, but I really would have been shocked if you were not.
Professional ballisticians have utilized this powder for almost 30 years, and we have produced millions of pounds of it since.
As a hint, perhaps try 45Auto 185gr jacketed, 9mm 124gr, 40S&W 165gr. It can also be used to push 147gr 9mm, but I prefer Power Pistol(R) for full power loads there. We have one large ammo manufacturer, that shall remain nameless, that uses BE-86 in their Gold Medal Match 45Auto 185gr.
Another application that BE-86 has worked really well is 38Spl+P. Medium power 357Mag is another, but you have figured that already. We had one large mfg that was using BE-86 in a 125grJHP duty load, and that surprised me, but the engineer for that product said he wanted 1350ft/sec, accuracy and low sd's, and BE-86 was best for that.
Thanks for trying our "new" canister pistol powder. Hopefully the supply issues let up soon and everyone can get what they want, when they want, and BE-86 will be readily available.
Shoot well,
Paul

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Quite frankly, I've gotten down to "set and forget" charge settings for 9/38/40/45 so long as I stay with the same powder. I use a 120TC and 124RN in 9mm, a 158g RF for 38, a 180TC for 40 and a 230TC for 45ACP. 5.0g Unique works very well for me with all these bullets, but so does a "universal" charge of 4.2g Titegroup or 5.6g BE-86 in all these calibers.

Unique was hard/impossible to get during the powder shortage so I developed the Titegroup load and when BE-86 became more available, I developed the load for it. Now all powders do not perform the same but for 10 yard target shooting and plinking inside 25 yards, these loads all work very well.

The only disadvantage of these powders (Titegroup, Bullseye, BE-86, Titewad, 20/28, Power Pistol) compared to the Clays technology or Unique/Red Dot/Green Dot powders is that they have high levels of Nitroglycerin. This causes the powder to stick to the bases of PC bullets and also deteriorates/discolors powder measure hoppers. Not to the point of unusability, but it certainly discolors the LnL AP hopper even if left in contact for one hour at a time 2-5 times a week over the span of a few years. As for sticking to the base of loaded PC bullets, the effect doesn't seem to matter, but I shoot the bullets too soon (my loads don't stay loaded for much more than a month) to notice.

Does the high nitro content also cause them to burn hotter?