Federal .38 spl +P 130gr HST in Clear Ballistics gel.

I know that all gel is not alike, but even though that is impressive expansion I would like to see some more penetration.

Interesting! I have never seen those before, but I really like the looks of that aggressive hollowpoint. Think it tops that 135g Gold dot SB loading?

Very impressive expansion from a short barrel .38 SPL.

Sistema1927 said:

I know that all gel is not alike, but even though that is impressive expansion I would like to see some more penetration.

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Me to, maybe they should have went with a 148 gr bullet.

I'm impressed. Being out of a snubby especially. I will have to keep those in mind.

Great expansion out of a snub but like others said lacking in expansion, I really want to see this in a 158 gr loading to see if penetration increased.

Not enough penetration to suit me.

I might pick some of those up, if I can find them at a decent price. I'd like a little heavier, too.
My .38 is an ultralight and seems to have had problems with +P jumping crimp, but that's with bullets at regular length. I'd have to make sure it's not about letting a primer scoot out, but it's only tied up once or twice and only with light +P loads, so...
I'm not a snob for FBI-spec penetration. 11" is plenty, and even 9" is about good enough. I can outrun anyone with 12" between their skin and important organs. I won't be shooting a 5-round gun through cover. If it has to penetrate a limb and continue, that means that the limb is out of the fight and that they're trying to block it instead of fight, which is fine by me.

I would personally feel better with wadcutters. A lot more penetration, doesn't break the bank, and I think the wadcutter geometry is more efficient than an expanded hollow point in terms of hydraulic effect, what little of that exists in a bullet with a mere 300 ft-lbs in it.

9 inches of penetration is plenty. People make to much out of the FBI requirements. My agency was very satisfied with 9 inches and we had a lot of gunfights to back it up.
I would like FEDERAL to bring back the old CHIEF SPECIAL 125 grain NYCLAD load. It was about the only non +P load that would really expand when fired from a snub .38 Special. I just picked up some FEDERAL HST .380ACP loads for my GLOCK 42 and will try them as soon as possible.

Looking at the chrono numbers, compared to the numbers of the gold dot's in the other thread. I'm curious how the recoil compared between the two rounds?

If it has to penetrate a limb and continue, that means that the limb is out of the fight and that they're trying to block it instead of fight, which is fine by me.

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During the 1986 FBI gunfight in Miami, Michael Platt's dominant (right) hand was disabled by a bullet that broke the radius bone and severed the radial nerve in his forearm. He could not use the thumb on his right hand yet he shot and killed two FBI agents afterward with a Ruger Mini-14. In addition the earlier 9mm Silvertip bullet that passed through the biceps muscle of his right arm did not take his right arm or hand out of the fight. A third bullet also passed through the triceps muscle of his right arm. Guess what? That bullet didn't disable his arm either.

In the same gunfight FBI agent Ed Mireles was shot in the forearm of his support hand by a .223 bullet fired by Platt, rendering it useless, yet after suffering the wound to his forearm he shot and finally stopped both Platt and William Mattix with his .38 Special revolver.

> more penetration

"Know your target, and what is behind it."

Hope you aren't shooting at someone skinny?

You can't count on a face to face shot, people instinctively turn away from danger when it pops into their view. That doesn't always take them out if the fight as they run away, rather it allows someone determined to respond a split second to move, draw, shoot etc. while placing the most meat between organs and danger.

Shooting through a bicep and then into a torso is the reason for the minimum penetration depths the FBI seeks, and that is a direct result of the Miami shootout. Reaching that 12" to 14" minimum should be enough to punch through a bicep and still hit the heart of most adult males.

I like the HST idea, but I would also like to see more depth of penetration before it stops moving. Thanks for the post .

Stay safe!

You start getting into heavier bullets, now your slowing the velocity. Now that's where we seem to run into expansion issues.
I just bought some Federal HST's. Walmart of all places.
I saw a couple test of the Federal hydro shock 110gr JHP. I was quite impressed with the results thru 4 layers of denim.

It would seem to me that a 2" J frame chambered in .357 mag. loaded above 38 spl +P might be a better option. This would provide the extra oomph to achieve desired penetration and expansion.

joneb said:

It would seem to me that a 2" J frame chambered in .357 mag. loaded above 38 spl +P might be a better option. This would provide the extra oomph to achieve desired penetration and expansion.

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Or add another inch to the barrel.

When the Kimber K6S first came out I was intrigued since it was an "almost" J-frame sized revolver, with 6 shot capacity. Not intrigued enough to purchase one until they came out with the 3" version. Easy to carry, great trigger, 6 shots, and that extra barrel length to allow .38 +P to be effective and still be completely controllable.

I was intrigied by these, so i went and got a box from walmart. I would also be interested to see what they did out of a 3 or 4 inch barrel.

Seems like this round doesn't penetrate enough.

I shot a box of the HST a couple of days ago. It recoiled more than the non +P load I was shooting and I found it was not as accurate. I think it will make a good carry load, but you will need something else in a speedloader if you carry your ammo that way.