M17 - public availability?
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Sunray
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The Sig 320 is the M17. Cabela's wants $649.99 to $799.99 for one.
strangelittleman
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Late spring for a limited run of a few thousand, I'd say. Of course they'll be in FullDiaperExplosion color.
Isn't the M17 just a 320 with the trigger upgrade in fde with a thumb safety?
I've seen a couple pics that show a compact gun next to the same gun with a full size slide attached to the compact frame. I do like this idea. I'm ordering a compact frame for my full size 320 after the holiday. It would make for a handier carry piece yet still retaining my preferred longer barrel.
I suppose it may end up being one of those 92fs/M9 things where the differences are pretty much aesthetic when it comes to the function of the gun.
I'm a big fan of the platform. I suppose I like it well enough to pay for a thumb safety...if I wanted a thumb safety. Therefore, I'm perfectly happy with the standard 320 now that I've gotten in back from the upgrade.
I've seen a couple pics that show a compact gun next to the same gun with a full size slide attached to the compact frame. I do like this idea. I'm ordering a compact frame for my full size 320 after the holiday. It would make for a handier carry piece yet still retaining my preferred longer barrel.
I suppose it may end up being one of those 92fs/M9 things where the differences are pretty much aesthetic when it comes to the function of the gun.
I'm a big fan of the platform. I suppose I like it well enough to pay for a thumb safety...if I wanted a thumb safety. Therefore, I'm perfectly happy with the standard 320 now that I've gotten in back from the upgrade.
AlexanderA
Member
I would reluctantly have to buy one to keep my military collection up to date. (Same reason I bought the Beretta M9, a gun I hate.) But I'm going to wait until it comes out with the actual "M17" marking.
Panzerschwein
member
I imagine it will be years before a widespread civilian release becomes available. Too busy filling the incredibly massive DOD orders. Look for small limited availability runs that will be priced sky high and will be absorbed by the collectors to stare at and stuff their safes with. Fair market value examples won't be commonplace for a long, LONG time.
maxxhavoc
Member
You won't find many collectors interested in a USGI replica. If it isn't government issue, it isn't collectible.
With that said, they wouldn't have a shortage of buyers. I want one, but that is because I like the firearm and want the manual safety. Make mine black though.
AlexanderA
Member
I don't think that's true. Lots of U.S. military collectors would settle for an AR-15 in lieu of an M16, an M1A in lieu of an M14, etc. This is the same reason why people are buying FN's $8,000 semiautomatic version of the M249 SAW.
herrwalther
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Nope. M17 is based off the Sig P320 with add ons to have it fit the Army's wants. It is in FDE color. It has the upgraded control unit that doesn't suffer from drop failure like stock P320s. A 1911 thumb safety. And the standard takedown lever on the P320 is replaced with a notched lever that likely requires a tool to swap parts. This was added to prevent lower enlisted soldiers from Frankenstein their guns with different parts.
Because the M17/18 is a slightly upgraded P320 it will likely be more in price difference than we saw with M9 vs 92FS models. Hopefully the M17 comes with both frames to switch between the 17 and 18. I thought I ran across and article when the M17 would be available to civilians but can't seem to find it at the moment.
puppage
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I read today it would be a limited run of 5,000
USBP379
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It is hard to tell for sure but it looks like they may have decided against the anti-tamper lever and extractor plunger. Look at the pistol at about 2:17.
Anyway, it should be possible to "clone" the US gun by buying one of the thumb safety pistols and then having the slide milled for an RMR and getting the pistol Cerakoted.
Where did you see this info? Can you share the link?
herrwalther
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This was the link I mentioned, and found. It also says 5000 units for civilians.
https://www.military.com/kitup/2017/12/09/sig-sauer-offer-commercial-version-armys-new-sidearm.html
The first pictures of delivered units to the 101st had a takedown lever with 2 pin holes. New pictures at a unit qualification show a standard lever. So I think they did make a change at the last minute.
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ClickClickD'oh
Member
The M17 is actually using what is called the Carry frame. The grip is sized for the full capacity magazine, but has the length of the compact.
I will say that as a civilian I wouldn't pay extra for something that is more difficult to take down. I get the idea in principle, but I prefer a regular ol' take down lever. Then again, I never bought an M9 because the extra cost of features over the 92fs wasn't worth it to me.
My nephew just joined the Marines this summer after graduating high school. I wonder when the new pistols will enter rotation. He's off to school right now, but I'm assuming he'll cross paths with it at some point in his career.
My nephew just joined the Marines this summer after graduating high school. I wonder when the new pistols will enter rotation. He's off to school right now, but I'm assuming he'll cross paths with it at some point in his career.
strangelittleman
Member
JeeperCreeper
Member
I love this quote from SIG:
"It's high in demand, but if we price it too high, they will say 'I really want it, but it is just too expensive.'"
So basically, they want to make sure to price them for a nice profit and for collector's... i.e. huge markup. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now they offer it as a normal part of their lineup when sales go stagnate just like Beretta selling the 92FS, 92A1, M9, M9A1 because the more numbers means the more dollars.
"It's high in demand, but if we price it too high, they will say 'I really want it, but it is just too expensive.'"
So basically, they want to make sure to price them for a nice profit and for collector's... i.e. huge markup. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now they offer it as a normal part of their lineup when sales go stagnate just like Beretta selling the 92FS, 92A1, M9, M9A1 because the more numbers means the more dollars.
Sam1911
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That's pretty much Business 101. A company which hopes to make a profit on a product should sell it at the price point where the number of units they can sell is balanced at the highest price for which they can sell them, thus providing the highest return on their Investments to produce that product.
The price point and the number of units they can sell will, of course, fluctuate over time as demand falls.
These days it isn't so unusual for consumers to understand economics well enough that a manufacturer can have a realistic conversation about that.
In fact, if they've got any brains at all, they very carefully analyzed what profit they thought they could get out of the consumer market for this product when they determined their pricing for the government. While pricing per unit for government products often looks quite high it includes pretty extensive support spare parts and all kinds of other things that jack the price way up and cost the manufacturer a great deal. I've no idea what net profit Sig will make on each pistol they sell to the military but it's going to be far far less than the profit they'll be able to make on each pistol they sell to a civilian. Expectations for return-on-investment realized out of the consumer Market probably helped them to lower their individual unit price in the military thus helping them win the contract.
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It would have to be collector of early adoption that would gravitate toward buying one at inflated prices. From a functional standpoint, a $600 P320 isn't functionally different. I'm sure they will be a standardized model for purchase in the years to come just like the M-9. SIG isn't dumb. There is a significant population of gun buyer who HAS to have what the armed services are carrying. "If it's good enough for XXXX, then it's good enough for me."
Once again, i think the M17/320 is a fantastic gun. There are worse ways to spend a few extra dollars than "upgrading" to an M17 over the 320 if it's worth it to you.
Once again, i think the M17/320 is a fantastic gun. There are worse ways to spend a few extra dollars than "upgrading" to an M17 over the 320 if it's worth it to you.
JeeperCreeper
Member
Oh, I get that... another Business 101 practice is taking advantage of uninformed or emotional buyers. I won't be paying a premium for a "limited edition" gun that has fancy paint and a few knick-knacks. It's just like the Beretta M9A3 that was said to be cheaper to manufacture by Beretta, but still fetches a couple hundred dollar premium over the regular M9 on the civilian market.
I'm too cynical and too scrooge-ish to pay for "status" or "marketing". I love both SIG and Beretta, so I'm not flaming them. I know how it works. I'm just posting an opinion about the "limited run" stuff that makes me roll my eyes
lysanderxiii
Member
Seeing as the profits SIG gets from the Gov't contract is limited, they have to make it up somehow....
Panzerschwein
member
Well hopefully later on they release the M17 as a regular market item (RMI). I can wait until the military finds some problems with this or that part that is bound to occur when the pistols get worn and have tons of rounds through them, just like what happened with the M9.
herrwalther
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Doubtful. It is speculation at this point that the Marines will adopt the M17, as of right now it is just an Army firearm. Because of a lower budget priority among the branches, they typically get newer equipment later rather than sooner.
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