Reloading .303

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"...you're saying shoot it, then have it looked at..." Absolutely not. Sporterised Lee-Enfields are the most likely candidates for bad headspace. Literally thousands of 'em have been assembled out of parts bins with no QC. Not even ensuring the headspace makes the thing safe to shoot. Especially if the thing was assembled by Century Arms. Bad headspace is almost guaranteed with those.
"...Just eyeballing..." Tells you absolutely nothing.
Lee-Enfields are great rifles, but they have issues caused partly by the design, but also the manufacturing techniques used. First thing you need do is have the headspace checked. Either by buying or renting(easier and cheaper) the headspace gauges and doing it yourself(very easy to do) or going to a smithy who knows Lee-Enfields and has the tools. Do not let any smithy buy 'em as you'll pay for 'em and not get to keep 'em.
Secondly, the barrels can be from .311" to .315" and still be ok. Over .315" is shot out.
Issue is that commercial ammo and reloading bullets come in .311" or .312" for jacketed and up to .314" for cast bullets(Montana Bullets). You need to slug the barrel. That'd be hammering a cast .30 calibre bullet or suitably sized(.308ish diameter), lead, fishing sinker though the barrel, preferably from the chamber end, using a 1/4" brass rod and a plastic mallet with the rifle in a padded vise. (Easier to do than type it out.) Then measuring the bullet/sinker with a micrometer. Use the closest bullet diameter.
What model do you have? A No. 1 Mk III has its rear sight on the barrel. A No. 4's is on the receiver. And the bolt head on a No. 1 slides over the receiver. A No. 4's slides in the receiver. Matters if the headspace is bad. It's much easier and less expensive to fix a No. 4 than it is a No. 1. No. 4 bolt heads have a number on the locking lug. 0 to 3 at roughly $30 each. If the headspace is bad, going up 1 number usually fixes it. Doesn't if the number is a 3. That requires the barrel taken off and machined.
A No. 1's bolt head has no number and fixing bad headspace requires a handful of bolt heads, at $30 each, if you can find 'em, to try with the gauges until you find one that works.
Now after all that, a lot of reloaders started with the Lee Loader. They work and you can load match grade ammo, but the only neck size. Plus those daft scoops, calibrated in a metric unit of liquid volume(CC means Cubic Centimeter.) that has nothing whatever to do with reloading, can vary the powder change plus or minus a full grain. Pitch 'em and use a scale
"...no need to full length size cases shot in just one rifle..." That's not true. Sooner or later you must FL resize. Any ammo fired out of another rifle or BNIB brass requires FL resizing too.
 
A few more thoughts that may be helpful.

Slugging the bore...

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSlug.htm <---- This was helpful to me when I had to do it the first time.

To get the most out of your rifle with the least amount of headache you should do it. Use lots of lube on a SOFT lead slug. Fishing weights that are a bit over bore size work pretty well. Use a wooden dowel rod that fits the bore, preferably hardwood. It should be cut into sections (maybe 6 inch pieces) to help keep from snapping it off. Once you figure that out you will have one less variable to wonder about. For cast bullets you want them sized .001 to .003 or so over bore size most of the time. Each barrel and load can be different though. .002 over generally works well for my cast bullets fwiw.

You can always try some .311 or .312 jacketed bullets and see how it shoots. If good, then go with it and dont worry about slugging unless you want to try cast lead bullets. You might get lucky and it likes them!

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...r-174-grain-hollow-point-boat-tail-box-of-100

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...312-diameter-150-grain-spire-point-box-of-100

Those hornady jacketed bullets have worked well for me in a couple different rifles with tighter bores than our .303. Price is agreeable too.

RMRbullets.com will have pulled bullets in most flavors. Usually some .312 bullets too. Great place to save a few bucks. If you want cast bullets I am sure you can get ahold of some on Castbullets.gunloads.com. That site will have more than you ever care to know about bullets...

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/303-british-lymanlbt-314299-200gr-rn-gc/
Those guys make good cast bullets if you want to go that route. Mine shoots the cast lead best since I can fit my oversized bore better than with common .312 jacketed bullets. The page linked is for a gas check 200g bullet. They are not super cheap, but they worked well for me before I started making my own. They have most any diameter you want, and different alloy choices. I am sure you could get your rifle to shoot well with those or something similar.

A couple thoughts on the hornady dippers... They can be anoying, but the DO work, and they work very well when cash is tight. I prefer the RCBS chargemaster, but it is almost 400 bucks and the dippers come free with the lee dies lol. I use the dippers all the time in my smokeless muzzle loader... and it will consistently shoot around 1.25MOA out to 250 yards. It does better if I hand weigh each charge on a scale, but that is not happening in the field. If you load a mid range load with the dippers they will get the job done for most practical shooting. I do like to have a scale to verify the dippers though, though you could argue its not 100 percent necessary. The little electronic ones work pretty well for what they cost. I guess what I am saying is that the dippers can get you shooting effectively now... then when you can afford to pick up some better gear you can!

As to loading dies... Sure I like my redding stuff... but my lee dies have served me well when that is what I could get. They are not fancy, but they will get the job done well enough to cover typical hunting and shooting needs.
 
"...you're saying shoot it, then have it looked at..." Absolutely not. Sporterised Lee-Enfields are the most likely candidates for bad headspace. Literally thousands of 'em have been assembled out of parts bins with no QC. Not even ensuring the headspace makes the thing safe to shoot. Especially if the thing was assembled by Century Arms. Bad headspace is almost guaranteed with those.
"...Just eyeballing..." Tells you absolutely nothing.
Lee-Enfields are great rifles, but they have issues caused partly by the design, but also the manufacturing techniques used. First thing you need do is have the headspace checked. Either by buying or renting(easier and cheaper) the headspace gauges and doing it yourself(very easy to do) or going to a smithy who knows Lee-Enfields and has the tools. Do not let any smithy buy 'em as you'll pay for 'em and not get to keep 'em.
Secondly, the barrels can be from .311" to .315" and still be ok. Over .315" is shot out.
Issue is that commercial ammo and reloading bullets come in .311" or .312" for jacketed and up to .314" for cast bullets(Montana Bullets). You need to slug the barrel. That'd be hammering a cast .30 calibre bullet or suitably sized(.308ish diameter), lead, fishing sinker though the barrel, preferably from the chamber end, using a 1/4" brass rod and a plastic mallet with the rifle in a padded vise. (Easier to do than type it out.) Then measuring the bullet/sinker with a micrometer. Use the closest bullet diameter.
What model do you have? A No. 1 Mk III has its rear sight on the barrel. A No. 4's is on the receiver. And the bolt head on a No. 1 slides over the receiver. A No. 4's slides in the receiver. Matters if the headspace is bad. It's much easier and less expensive to fix a No. 4 than it is a No. 1. No. 4 bolt heads have a number on the locking lug. 0 to 3 at roughly $30 each. If the headspace is bad, going up 1 number usually fixes it. Doesn't if the number is a 3. That requires the barrel taken off and machined.
A No. 1's bolt head has no number and fixing bad headspace requires a handful of bolt heads, at $30 each, if you can find 'em, to try with the gauges until you find one that works.
Now after all that, a lot of reloaders started with the Lee Loader. They work and you can load match grade ammo, but the only neck size. Plus those daft scoops, calibrated in a metric unit of liquid volume(CC means Cubic Centimeter.) that has nothing whatever to do with reloading, can vary the powder change plus or minus a full grain. Pitch 'em and use a scale
"...no need to full length size cases shot in just one rifle..." That's not true. Sooner or later you must FL resize. Any ammo fired out of another rifle or BNIB brass requires FL resizing too.
So does this headspace issue make the rifle unsafe to shoot with store bought ammo or just unsafe to reload?
I don't think the enfield is a parts frankenstein, all the numbers match, don't know if that means anything.
 
WoW! I am so glad we didn't have all these internet "experts" to give us their sage advise back in the 50s. We just bought the Lee Enfields and some ammo and went out and shot them, Of all the WWII rifles, the Lee Enfield is the least likely to give you problems about incorrect headspace with factory or mil-surp ammo. Lee Enfields vent gas well and survive case leakage and other issues. Shoot your gun, enjoy it, and then earn how to reload for it with all the information so generously offered here and on other forums.
 
Check your groove count. The US built have 2 grooves, a 1944 is more likely to be a Mk1* have a look if the trigger is mounted to the trigger guard or the action and is there a forward slot cut in the action to remove the bolt or a release button on the rear of the action.
Curator is right just shoot it and enjoy it. A tip with bullet size ,,,, Think 7.7mm not 0.311" Just be kind to your brass
 
M47C is BSA Shirley. It is most likely a true No.4 Mk1 (no *) and may have 5 groove rifling. Some war time production guns ended up with 2-groove barrels either at the factory or in later arsenal rebuilding.
 
So does this headspace issue make the rifle unsafe to shoot with store bought ammo or just unsafe to reload?
I don't think the enfield is a parts frankenstein, all the numbers match, don't know if that means anything.
In general (Never say never or always), they are safe to shoot with factory ammo and well done reloads. They just tend to have "generous" headspace and that needs to be taken into account.
 
If it is BSA then it is a 5 groove and the better barrel, I think most of the 2 groove were used by Savage, Winchester and Remington, not to sure what they fitted at Long Brach as they took up most of the parts from the US. Mk1/Mk1* as you say could be either, the bolt release is prob the best pointer. The No4 I have is a MK1*1943 Savage with a BSA 5 groove ( T ) barrel, shots best with 174g fmjbt and 41g of VV n140
 
In general (Never say never or always), they are safe to shoot with factory ammo and well done reloads. They just tend to have "generous" headspace and that needs to be taken into account.
This headspace causes what exactly? If the brass stretches some because of the extra room what will happen?
 
What happens when you stretch, say, play-doh? It gets thinner... and may eventually break. When a case stretches, it's not growing any new brass.... it's just re-distributing the existing brass over a longer dimension.
 
If it fits the chamber well, and after the first firing it should, unless we screw it up by moving the shoulder too far back, then it will last many firings with no sign of incipient case head separation.
 
Fire form your bass, trim to length, anneal the neck and shoulders every 3 loads you get many reloads from your brass. just neck size. Im using a 100 PPU cases I bought 2 years ago and I shoot my No4 in matches every weekend , yes ive had a few cracks but still have 86 serviceable cases, To only get 3 loads from a case is wasteful and expensive
 
WoW! I am so glad we didn't have all these internet "experts" to give us their sage advise back in the 50s. We just bought the Lee Enfields and some ammo and went out and shot them, Of all the WWII rifles, the Lee Enfield is the least likely to give you problems about incorrect headspace with factory or mil-surp ammo. Lee Enfields vent gas well and survive case leakage and other issues. Shoot your gun, enjoy it, and then earn how to reload for it with all the information so generously offered here and on other forums.

One of the best posts ever.

The Lee Enfield was the first cartridge I reloaded for. I've been doing it for a couple of SMLEs now for a dozen years or so now. I feel like I'm still a long way from an expert on the subject and this thread is very interesting. I was surprised to not see a recommendation to use a "feeler" gauge made out of a paper clip to check the case for imminent head separation. It's not fool proof but it comes close. I've loaded lots of brass over ten times and had cases crack after just a couple loads. I used to have a nice collection of cases I Dremmeled just to find the ring I felt inside the case.

I've found neck sizing only and staying away from top end loads will produce reasonable case life.

The real gem is in the last sentence of the above quote. That experience will teach you more about your rifle and the cartridge than anything on the interwebs.
 
I was surprised to not see a recommendation to use a "feeler" gauge made out of a paper clip to check the case for imminent head separation. It's not fool proof but it comes close. I've loaded lots of brass over ten times and had cases crack after just a couple loads. I used to have a nice collection of cases I Dremmeled just to find the ring I felt inside the case.

I suggested using a paper clip on my first post, the 3rd post of this thread.

Headspace can be spotty on Enfields as bolts were interchanged when imported. It would be prudent to check for excessive headspace. My Jungle Carbine is over by a couple thousandths which isn’t critical but will wear brass prematurely at the base. I would be in the habit of checking for wear with a paper clip on the inside base of the fired cartridges.

When I had my carbine checked the gunsmith fired a proof cartridge and noted the primer backing out of the case by a few thousandths.

I’ve seen Enfield a with excessive headspace have case separation issues after a couple of loadings. My dad had a sporterized enfield and I won’t shoot it as one can see brass stress marks above the rim. He used it for hunting for many years and never had an issue but he didn’t reload for it.

I think fire forming and using some of the reloading techniques @Curator wrote and linked to would help a lot in brass life and safety in preventing case head separations.
 
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A couple of comments: The 303 Lee Enfield rifle uses a rimmed cartridge. Headspace in a 303 is measured from the face of the bolt to the front edge of the cavity in the chamber designed to hold the rim in position. The 303 is/was designed as a “battle” rifle and as such needed to be functional in all types of battlefield conditions. These fine rifles were designed with a bit of “slop” so they would operate, trouble free, in all kinds of adverse weather conditions, including in steamy, damp, verdigris producing jungles. These rifles, as noted, were designed with 3 different interchangeable bolt-heads to optimize/simplify speed of repair when they stretched/wore/etc. This discussion is one where we would be better served by using the correct term of reference, i.e. “chamber clearance” as opposed to “headspace”. In some respects, the chambers of 303’s are very similar to those found in many/most belted magnums, in that since the cartridge is constrained from moving forward by the rim (belt), the “sloppy” chamber allows the case to stretch, forward of the solid portion of the case-head. This stretching if repeated, as it is when the case continues to be full-length sized after each firing, will result in case failure (referred to as insipient case separation) after a very few firings. The “cure” as mentioned above is to fire form the case on the first firing and then neck (or partial) form thereafter. All that said, certainly part of the overall problem can be due to a true “headspace” condition and that can be mitigated on the first firing by the use of a rubber “O” ring rolled onto the case in front of the rim. You can, for the initial forming, also leave a light film of oil on the case and use high-moderate fire forming loads.


If you really want to know what you are dealing with, you need to make a chamber cast, followed by taking precise measurements using a micrometer. Doing that will tell you exactly what you have and give you the knowledge to work out what you need to do.


Good luck going forward. These rifles can provide many years of fun.
 
Hey, I got a used .303 lee a while back. Haven't shot it, I am still working on it. Don't have much money or much gun know-how. I've shot 12ga and .22 and that is it.
I was thinking about the lee loader for basic reloading for plinking and hunting, not sniper level accuracy. Here are the issues:
Any safety issues about reloading?
Do you need anything else besides lee loader kit? (aside from the bullet parts, of course)
Heard privi is good brass, does it work?
Should I just not waste time and fork money for pre-made ammo?
Any important things to know that the lee loader instructions won't say?

By all means get the Lee Loader & a hand held primer (Lee). Get some .311 or .312 bullets from 150 to 180 gr., a pound of IMR 4064 powder, large rifle primers, PPU cases & a Lee shell holder for priming. I had an older gent buy me a lee loader from Graff & Sons for cheap. He already had bullets, powder, cases & primers. Also get a deburring tool (hand held) for inside of the ctg. neck & primer pocket. Stay away from max. loads & the dippers will be fine. You should also get a good digital scale just to confirm powder weights (with consistency you can get amazing results by using the lee dippers (you should get a set of Lee dippers too. The Lee loader only neck sizes the case which is perfect for the lee enfield's as they have excessive chambers. With PPU brass (the best), with moderate loads you should get about 3 to 5 loads. I have tried the o ring thing, but never had any luck with it. Yes the Lee loader will load ammo that is just as accurate as any other reloading press period. I have been using this method for about 10 years now. Yes, you will also need a plastic mallet. Knock out the primer & clean case (wipe off, debur inside of case mouth, clean primer pocket, seat new primer (you will also need a plastic shell holder to hold your cases), measure your powder charge (a funnel will help in dumping powder in case). Before you seat bullet stand over all charged cases & inspect with a small flashlight to ensure all have been charged with powder. Adjust bullet seater of your Lee loader to the proper depth, usually to where the crimp is, but confirm by placing against a factory round. No need to crimp especially with PPU brass as it is thicker. It will give you good bullet tension. Keep an eye on your fired brass as it will stretch & sooner or later you will have a case head separation (get a broken shell extractor & don't loose it). They can be had on ebay and other sites - google is your friend. you may have to adjust your mag. feed lips for reliable feeding (easy does it). Make sure your chamber is completely dry & free from any & all oils as your ctgs. must be completely oil free too. Once you have everything you should be good to go. Please keep us updated especially if you have any questions & or problems.
 
Good thread, I'll try not to repeat what has already been said.

Neck sizing cases fired in a rifle with excessive headspace issues will deform your brass. The neck sizing die, such as the Lee collet type, will size a small portion of the shoulder, weakening it. After a few firings of cases sized this way the case will separate at the shoulder leaving the shoulder/neck portion in the chamber. It happened to me a couple of times before I figured out how this happened. My immediate solution was to full length size until I bought a new bolthead for my No4 to fix the headspace.

You are right in choosing Privi brass. Stay away from Sellier and Bellot brass in 303brit as it is very brittle. Even with careful sizing and modest loads you will get case head separations after ~5 loadings if you're lucky.

I would also reccomend buying a broken case extractor. Absolutely invaluable for this calibre and it will ensure you don't waste a range day in the event that you do get a case head separation. Since buying mine 3 years ago, I've only had to use it on one occasion and that was on the aforementioned S&B ammo where I had a few separations in one range trip after 5 loadings. I've learnt to not exceed 4 loadings with S&B brass.

These have been my learnings over the past 5 years with this calibre, good luck!
 
1. PPU is the best brass commercially manufactured in cal .303.
Chambers are very generous in both diameter and length to the shoulder. The .303 cases get stretched both lengthwise and diametrally in the LEE-ENFIELD chambers. PPU brass is the largest in head diameter.

2. Lee-Enfield chambers vary a lot in the shape of the shoulder. The British manufactured chambers seem to not have a design standard. US and European products conforms to SAAMI and CIP standards respectively. SAAMI also specifies chamber dimensions so US dies are made to produce ammo that will fit a standard SAAMI CHAMBER.
The trouble is some .303 Lee-Enfields are afflicted with what I refer to as a "clown" chamber. They vary so much no one makes dies that are an exact match. Even the most common LE chambers are a gross mismatch for US made dies.
3. Keep your brass segregated by rifle and neck size only to minimize working your brass. Restrict your loads to the starting loads to help your brass live longer.

I mostly use light to moderate loads in my rifles of all calibers. I usually get anywhere from 25 to 50 reloads per case. With a LE I have seen cases that partially separated when the factory load was fired. You will normally get 4 to 6 reloads with the LE. There are other tricks and techniques that can extend the life of your brass. Those methods are many and are too tedious to detail here.
 
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I used the Lee Loader kit to get me started in reloading. Once you learn it, you can crank out quite a bit of ammo in short order.

HOWEVER, the priming method for the Lee Loader kit Sux balz. I had a lot of primers go off on me.

So, if you're going to go the Lee Loader route, invest in a hand primer. Once I got a simple Lee hand primer, I loaded hundreds of rounds with that kit and hand primer and never once had another primer go off, or any other issue for that matter. And yes, some of the most accurate ammo I ever produced came from that simple Lee loader kit.
 
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