.357 load in .38spl case for .357 carbine rifle.

I dont know, but why not just use the correct case??

REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD IDEA!

Just sayin'

It's a very bad idea because one way or another one if those hit .38 Special cases will find it's way into a .38 Special gun. If not by you, maybe by another.

Like asked above, why not use the correct case?

You made it a point to say it's a rifle load, there are no differences between a handgun or rifle load. A .357 Magnum round is a .357 Magnum. Also, a levergun is no stronger or even less strong than a good revolver.

To answer your question, yes you can load .357 Magnum pressures in a .38 Special case BUT, because the case volume is lower you will need to use a lighter charge to stay within safe pressure limits.

I would start with a load halfway between and work up from there. Also consider that a chrony should be used. The 38 case is just as strong as the 357, but the volume difference is a big unknown. Do not exceed the velocity of the 357.

On the cases, I would recommend marking over the 38 spl marking mechanically as a safety precaution.

Does a lever gun fit 1 more 38 round in the tube than 357 rounds? I can't see any other reason would even think of doing this?

Withdrawn.

A cartridge doesn't know whether it's in a revolver or rifle. Count me among the rest who question the need to tempt fate. Before setting off on this, perhaps someone may come along who can provide Quickload data, but I would think you would end up overcharging the case.

No, it’s not OK.

This is why you don’t shoot someone else’s reload.

Why do you want to do this?

While I also personally think that it is bad juju to do this because of SOMEBODY ELSE inadvertently using the wrong ammo in a 38 SPL firearm and hurting themselves at some point in the future it would work with a caveat. That being that the case volume is smaller and the load would need to be worked up with that in mind using a crony to not over pressure things using standard data as previously mentioned. Does that give you one more round in the rifle or such? Have lots of 38 SPL brass and not so much 357? Personally not worth the risk IMHO. I can see an estate sale some day with a couple rounds thrown in with a box full of loose 38 SPL to someone that thinks they hit the motherload because they do not reload and got a good deal. YMMV

Look up Skeeter Skelton's Load.
But read closely. You have to use the right bullet seated the right way.
Which also identifies the overload... if you or you bud or your heir knows what he is looking at.

I think it's a bad idea. Sure, it may work just fine in your 357 lever action.
But, then you have 38 spcl ammo that is unsafe for a 38 spcl.

The whole reason for making the magnum case longer, was to prevent the more potent ammo from being used in the smaller chassis.

Brass is cheap, and peace of mind is priceless.

A really nice Article on the Ruger forum about the .357 Levern Action. It might be useful.

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/64025-powder-suggestions-357-lever-action-loads.html

dg

A published powder charge for 357 Magnum put into a 38 Special case with the same bullet placed on top will produce higher pressures than published unless you can seat that bullet out to the loads 357 magnum length. With all but the longest bullets this is not possible and even then the case will have likely have a tenuous grasp on the bullet.

The case volume left under the seated bullet plays nearly as big a role in peak pressure as the amount of and type of propellant. In general for a given bullet and powder charge the deeper you seat the bullet the higher the peak pressure will be.

If you're set on doing this back way off on the powder charge and work up slow with a chronograph.

I have done it with 38 Short Colt loaded well above 38 Special +P pressures for use in a 357 Magnum for USPSA competition. Be safe.

If one cuts a tenth off a three fifty seven case does it make it unsafe? Empirically, No. There maybe a setback or crimping difficulty, especially in a tube magazine.

The danger comes from the head. Specifically the stamp. So, use a Dremel tool and disfigure it. Only load up what you will shoot, so there are no suspect loaded rounds laying about. Or pull them down. The danger is real. Brass is pretty inexpensive. All of the above post are not untrue.

Would this stop me from loading a few thirty eights to three fifty seven, in a rifle that would handle it, to hunt a deer with? No. Would I make this my modus operundi? No. Am I telling you to go ahead and do it? No. Will doing so stop time and open a blackhole and destroy the Earth? A solid maybe.

Jim Watson said:

Look up Skeeter Skelton's Load.
But read closely. You have to use the right bullet seated the right way.
Which also identifies the overload... if you or you bud or your heir knows what he is looking at.

Click to expand...

I have a NOE clone of the Lyman 358156 bullet with the double crimp groove that Skeeter used with those loads,mine cast HP or FN bullet. I load up a few on occasion and shoot them in my Ruger BH for oldtime sake and the boxes are clearly marked.

kwallace said:

The general concensus seems to be "don't do it". Others seem to think it's OK, if certain parameters are met. The most common concern is someone accidentally loading one of these in a .38 revolver and blowing it up from the high pressure. This is NOT my concern, as I am loading for my lever action rifle in .357.

What I am wondering is, if a .357mag powder charge fits the case with PLENTY of room to spare, and no compression when the bullet is seated, does that extra 1/10th inch case really make that big of a difference? Because that slight extra case length seems to be the only difference between the two rounds, all other things being equal (bullet dimensions and weight).

The power I use has loading data for both .38 and .357 for the same powder, for the same bullet type and same bullet weight. 6.8gr vs.9.7gr

So, for a *rifle* load, is it OK?

Click to expand...

But that data does not specify the same powder charge. For the few powders that commonly show data for both 38 Special, especially +p, and 357 Magnum, there is a gap in the powder weight range. That gap is what you can use for light 357 Magnum, but going beyond authority in a 38 Special case is for someone who just refuses to buy the right brass or has a rifle chambered in 38 Special and should leave it alone or buy a 357 Magnum. If one insisted on playing with this at some peril to himself, the gun, those around him, or some unsuspecting person later, it would be best to cut down 357 brass so you at least had the right head stamp, never mind that those cartridges would still load and fire in a 38 Special chamber.

I have done this, for one batch of reloads, on an experimental basis. As you'd guess, if internal volume is the same as in 357 brass, then pressure will be the same. Accuracy may be degraded due to longer jump from case mouth to rifling.

The real question is whether you're willing to own the risks you're creating. You are intentionally loading a grenade that could maim or blind an unsuspecting person, or you if you're not paying attention.

Sample QL calc.
For a powder charge that generates full .357 mag pressure (35,000 psi), reducing the volume to a 38 Special case (0.1" shorter) would raise the pressure by about 10,000 psi to 45,000 psi due to the smaller volume of the case (+9 to +12,000 psi depending on the powder)

Now if you seated the bullet to where the OAL is the same for the 38 Special case as it is with the .357 magnum load (0.1" longer), you would get the same performance and same pressure as the .357 load in a .357 case. Yes, you lose a little neck tension because there is now less brass to grip the bullet while the powder ignites, but it's not much. However, you are likely not seated to where you could put a good roll crimp on the bullet which you would still need to prevent bullet setback in a tube magazine.

Best to stick with 38 +P loads if you're resigned to only use 38 special cases. Otherwise spring the bucks for some .357 brass.

I would think if he had magnum brass he would use it, rather than cutting it down to special lenght.

Like edwardware, I am a type two handloader. The trick is to not become a type three handloader, that is, blind, disfigured, digit less, or dead.

Thoughful, deliberate and scientifically sound processes will keep one whole.

CZ9shooter said:

I dont know, but why not just use the correct case??

Click to expand...

This is my question......why? I see no real advantage to using, while imagining many bad outcomes. While with some powders, you may be able to get a full .357 charge under a bullet in a .38 case, there are somewhere that will not be possible. Most lever feed .357 cases better than .38s depending on bullet profile and .357 cases are not rare nor do they cost more than .38s.

buck460XVR said:

This is my question......why? I see no real advantage to using, while imagining many bad outcomes. While with some powders, you may be able to get a full .357 charge under a bullet in a .38 case, there are somewhere that will not be possible. Most lever feed .357 cases better than .38s depending on bullet profile and .357 cases are not rare nor do they cost more than .38s.

Click to expand...

I believe the deal is that it is a short barrel model and the owner is trying to get the tube to hold 10 rounds for SASS matches or simply more rounds for whatever reason.

Most .357 lever actions don't like .38 Special ammo. Something about the OAL difference cause feeding issues.
And the pressure issue has nothing whatever to do with the firearm used. A .375 lever action is limited to .357 pressures just like a revolver.
Either way, there's no advantage to loading .38 cases with .357 loads. Have literally hundreds of .38 cases myself, but load .357 cases with .38 loads for a reason. Eliminates the lube gunk ring in the cylinders. There's no reason, purpose or advantage to loading .38's with .357 data.