458 socom vs 450 bushmaster anyone own one???

If you have an ar10 already I suggest going with a 45 raptor

Far far less proprietary brass and parts more power than either

I prefer the 458 Socom just because it has a shoulder and It can handle readily available heavy bullets.
If you're okay with the round head spacing on the case mouth and, only shooting 350 grain or lighter bullets than the 450 might actually have an advantage just because it uses the generally cheaper .452 pistol bullets.

Performance between the two and the common 300 grain range is almost identical.

I have the .458, better selection of heavy bullets than the 450 BM.

Bullet selection for the 450B is better than it was when it first landed, but the 458Soc remains to have better selection. I favor the 458Soc, more reliable feeding, and better bullet selection, with a bit higher ceiling on power.

Don't dare say "last one" about an AR... We all know you're just lying to yourself...

LoonWulf and jmorris have hit on the key issue - bullet availability. Personally if it was me for hunting I'd be looking at Hawk spitzers due to the wide range of operating velocities. They have one option in .452 and 7 in .458. So that would be a pretty easy decision.

But that's just my personal bullet preference. If you have some .452 bullet you want to use, then go for it.

The .450 goes plenty heavy with the option of cheap pistol bullets for plinking. All manner of heavy game have been taken with .45 caliber handguns and you don't need 500gr bullets to do so. If you can't kill it with a 325gr A-frame, Barnes Buster or Punch bullet, you need a bigger rifle.

CraigC said:

If you can't kill it with a 325gr A-frame, Barnes Buster or Punch bullet, you need a bigger rifle.

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Like a .458!!!

The game that I wouldn't shoot with the .450, I wouldn't shoot with the .458 either.

How about a .50 Beowulf? Just thought I’d suggest that since you reload. Plenty of .50 cal bullets available for this beast.

I had a .458 SOCOM. Lotsa power. Even reloading, it was really expensive. Just bullets are 30-40 cents each. Recoil was mild considering the power.

I for one view the ability to use pistol bullets as one of the biggest advantages to the 450 due to cost and availability. Modern inline muzzleloading gives us a plethora of great .452” pistol bullets. I for one find the “not a rifle bullet” to be a complete non issue

At one point I owned three Marlin 1895 lever actions chambered in .45-70 Govt. including a Guide Gun, XLR and SBL but I ended up selling the the first two. But since I have a .458 cal rifle I decided on the .450 BM when it came time to put together a big bore AR. For all the reasons previously stated by CraigC and R.W.Dale, the .450 BM is a great choice regardless of the intended use. Bullet selection didn't enter into the decision for me because if I need to shoot a 400gr + bullet I'll use my Marlin. I've found that the BM shown below runs incredibly well with factory and handloaded ammunition and I've had zero issues with the 5 and 9 round magazines from BM.

I see that this company is selling big bore AR followers.

http://www.chambertactical.com/

Now my curiosity is piqued. Never really considered getting one of these two until I began reading this thread. How do either of these work with cast bullets? A big part of having one of these monsters is to be able to feed it.

I am also interested in a new upper for my AR. This very question is in my mind too.

I was really hoping some one made a four-fifty-two Socom. Or a four fifty Cor-bon, fourty five Action Express maybe? Oops, wrong thread.
Since those don't exist I am undecided between these two. I don't know why I am not attracted to the Beowulf, but I am not.

NorthBorder said:

Now my curiosity is piqued. Never really considered getting one of these two until I began reading this thread. How do either of these work with cast bullets? A big part of having one of these monsters is to be able to feed it.

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My .458 shot 405MBCs into about 2" at 50 yds, but leaded like crazy. Its been suggested and very likely they were a poor fit in my barrel tho. I shot about 100 of them before giving up on it, and my bolt had some lead fouling but not much on it, so id guess with a properly fitted bullet either would work pretty damn well.

I don't have either but I have researched them. Based on cost of bullets I would personally get a 450 bm. I decided against the idea due to cost of brass and I don't like chasing brass around in the grass or having to have a bag on the side of my gun. If it was solely a hunting gun I guess that wouldn't be as much of a concern.

Lennyjoe said:

How about a .50 Beowulf? Just thought I’d suggest that since you reload. Plenty of .50 cal bullets available for this beast.

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I dont think we can take big bore AR's with .50BW. 50 will be the easiest one to find components to reload with. plus its a .50 cal

I went with 450 Bushmaster.


450 Bushmaster Upper, DPMS lower

That said they are ballistically very similar. 458 SOCOM has a slight case volume advantage 61.6 gr H2O vs 60 gr H2O. Where 450BM runs slightly higher pressures 38,500 psi vs 35,000 psi.

As for bullet selection I think the edge goes to 450BM. Go to Midway, Graf and Sons or any other online reloading supplier. They all carry way more variety of .452 bullets than .458 bullets. Yes some of those are not really made for 450BM terminal velocities but many of them are and for plinking ammo 45 ACP bullets are cheap and work fine. The bullet makers are also making more and more bullets specifically for 450BM. In addition many bullets made for the magnum 45 cal pistol cartridges, especially 460 S&W are excellent choices for 450 BM bullets.

And if you're willing to do a little extra work resizing .458 diameter bullets down to .452 you have an ever larger variety to select from. Resizing can be accomplished with two $20 Lee sizing dies and a good closed arch single stage reloading press. Step down to .454 then a second sizing with a .452 or .451 die. I found they spring back a bit and after ruining through a .451 die they mic'rd at .4515-.452. It's allot harder and/or more expensive to go the other way. I used resized .458 405gr SP 45-70 bullets to work up a very nice subsonic load for my 450BM.


Left to Right: Barnes, 200gr XPB, Barnes 275gr TSX, Hornady 240gr XTP/MAG, Hornady 300gr XTP/MAG, Hornady, 225gr FTX, Hornady 250gr FTX, Remington 405gr SP (resized).

Now if I can just get that deer to hold still for a second.

I have a 458 Socom. I'm pleased with it. I can shoot about 2.5 moa with it regularly at 100 yards. Some of the reasons I went Socom have been mentioned: Better bullet availability, and shoulder to headspace on. One that hasn't been mentioned is that the Socom was designed to use standard magazines and followers, while the Bushmaster (BM) MAY work with some mags but they usually use a different (or modified) follower.

If you reload, costs probably aren't much different, but if you don't reload then the BM is going to be cheaper to feed. Plus you can probably buy BM ammo at Walmart, but it's not likely you'll find Socom ammo outside of a gun shop (or the internet).

If you do reload and hunt with them, you will want to pay attention to the particular bullets you use with either choice, since most pistol bullets (BM) may come apart at high speed close range. While many rifle bullets (Socom) won't expand well at slower speeds.

These things aside, I am probably going to switch to a BM upper sometime in the near future. Iowa has legalized the BM (straight walled case) for deer hunting, but the Socom is still not allowed. I know in Michigan's shotgun-only zone they've recently allowed the BM for deer hunting as well. So if you're a hunter in a shotgun only locality, you may want to check the current rules since your Big Bore AR may be legal for hunting.

I have run 450 Bushmaster in standard magazines without much issue issue. A standard follower works just fine with 450 BM. The only thing that really seems to matter is that there are no burrs or sharp corners on the feed lips. If they are smooth they feed fine if the are sharp or burred you get failures to feed.

On my dedicated 450 BM magazines I do run 458 SOCOM followers from CALegalMags in straight body 20rd magazines that have had the feed lips de-burred and a quick polish with a felt wheel and polishing compound for super reliable 6rd magazines.

I would likely go 450 bushmaster... only because here in Ohio I can hunt deer with the bushmaster legally... not the socom or raptor although for defense from bigfoot the bushmaster and the heavier bullets would be nice

tallpaul said:

I would likely go 450 bushmaster... only because here in Ohio I can hunt deer with the bushmaster legally... not the socom or raptor although for defense from bigfoot the bushmaster and the heavier bullets would be nice

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Wouldn't the 45 Raptor be legal with the recent changes to Ohio rifle laws? I believe the law just says straight wall cartridges using bullets between .357 and .500 inches in diameter. Not that I really want to pull the trigger on the 45 Raptor but I think it would be legal if you like abusing your shoulder.

Deleted derailment.

mcb said:

I used resized .458 405gr SP 45-70 bullets to work up a very nice subsonic load for my 450BM.

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@mcb , can you provide more details on that load? Does it cycle the bolt? What powder and charge weight?

It looks like your upper has a 20" barrel. I cut mine down from 20" to 12" and might need to open up the gas port to get more gas heading rearward for subsonic loads. Perhaps an adjustable gas block is in my future. I shot some 360gr gas checked bullets this weekend using 15.0gr of Trailboss which results in a MV of around 1,100 fps but not enough gas to cycle the bolt. That load supposedly generates about 36,700 psi but with such a short dwell time there's not enough gas going down the gas tube.