Gf wants a light ar, I don't want to break the bank :p

Status
Not open for further replies.
I will second the PSA option. I recently aquired a A3 upper to set up a lower for shooting in the CMP Modern Military match.
It has a standard A2 profile 20" 1/7" barrel. On a as new DPMS lower, it's darn near as accurate as my National Match H-bar 14lb AR. $249 plus shipping for upper w/carry handle w/o bolt carrier assembly (already had one).
They recently had a complete A4 lower on sale for $149.
Add a complete upper for ~350 and your in business for under $500.


I have built several AR-15s using barrels, receivers, and bolt carrier groups from Palmetto State Armory. All of them have been excellent. Excellent reliability, and accurate enough to shoot steel plates at 300-400 yards, and my big gong out at 600 yards.

They offer a tremendous value. The barrels that they offer on many of their kits results in a very well balanced rifle.


A few options that I wager would suit you well:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-phosphate-freedom-rifle-kit.html


http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...weight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-kit-516446780.html
 
I'm just sayin...them M4 profile barrels like in that posted PSA ad ain't light. If I had known how the election was going to turn out I would have waited for a pencil barrel like I wanted.

-kBob

I have a pencil barrel Delton and have never found myself wanting anything else. IMO, A2 and M4 profiles don't make sense on a 16" carbine.
 
I have a pencil barrel Delton and have never found myself wanting anything else. IMO, A2 and M4 profiles don't make sense on a 16" carbine.
Heavier contour barrels are the answer to a problem that civilian shooters really don't have. When was the last time you used your rifle to cross a concertina wire barrier, or to pry open a pallet of MREs? Or mounted a grenade launcher?
 
Heavier contour barrels are the answer to a problem that civilian shooters really don't have. When was the last time you used your rifle to cross a concertina wire barrier, or to pry open a pallet of MREs? Or mounted a grenade launcher?


Heavier contour barrels have a ton of applications for civilian shooters who get their barrels hot but still need to maintain a certain level of accuracy. High Power, PRS Gas Gun, 3-Gun, etc..... You will rarely see pencil barrels in any of these.
 
PSA Pencil barrel--pretty dang light. Have $550 in this one including the TRS-25. PSA has been sold out of the pencils since well before Xmas. They have a CHF Ultra Lightweight upper on my wishlist. They cost more but I prefer them.

ar pencil 1.JPG

M
 
Last edited:
Heavier contour barrels have a ton of applications for civilian shooters who get their barrels hot but still need to maintain a certain level of accuracy. High Power, PRS Gas Gun, 3-Gun, etc..... You will rarely see pencil barrels in any of these.
I don’t know what all of those are, but don’t most gun games simulate some sort of extended combat with dozens of rounds being expended? That’s not really what I think of as a civilian application. Those are specialized applications that would probably benefit from specialized guns.

I’m thinking of the typical use that the gun I keep in my trunk might see, like shooting 2-3 rounds at a groundhog. I’ve never fired more than five rounds at a live target in my entire life.
 
Limit of 6 or 700 without sight/optic but ideally less would be nice. Thank you for your time.
Up your budget a bit and get her a Colt 6720. You could save money by getting a PSA or or Delton, but you better know what to look for and how to troubleshoot.
 
I like the A2/A1 handle, which weighs surprisingly little. An A2 upper with a standard lower, and M4 butstock with a Bushmaster pencil barrel weighs in at a legitimate 5.5LBs. 100 rounds of M193 actually starts to get uncomfortable. Its also all metal except furniture, and no gimmicks. I had 14000 rounds documented through it with no issues, cleaned once in that time, but oiled every 200 or so rounds. I stopped reloading for a while, and lost count of how many rounds it had since then. It sounds like your looking for a practical lightweight, not a lightest possible. That will be 5-6 LBs. Some people are recomending DelTon lightweights. They're fine, but their idea of lightweight is still fairly heavy, though far lighter than a 'Hbar'. The DelTon will weigh around 6LBs before a sight. No reason to get a plastic receiver to say 1/5 of an ounce.
 
I don’t know what all of those are, but don’t most gun games simulate some sort of extended combat with dozens of rounds being expended? That’s not really what I think of as a civilian application. Those are specialized applications that would probably benefit from specialized guns.

I’m thinking of the typical use that the gun I keep in my trunk might see, like shooting 2-3 rounds at a groundhog. I’ve never fired more than five rounds at a live target in my entire life.
The only thing an Hbar is good for outside of matches are making people want to buy something else IMO. I have had my pencil barrel smoking hot shooting clay pidgeons at 60 yards a few times, and while that may not be up to some standards, it certainly can hit them. Thats still combat capable just fine at 300 yards, while so hot you feel the heat on the trigger. Seems good enough.
 
get their barrels hot but still need to maintain a certain level of accuracy.
A properly installed and torqued, free floated quality barrel doesn't lose its accuracy or change POI when it gets hot. It might when it's glowing orange, but that takes at least a couple of C-mags' worth of sustained full auto fire even with a pencil profile barrel. I can't really see anything like that happening in semi auto, regardless of the discipline or intensity of competition or stage. Some low and medium quality barrels string like there's no tomorrow at moderate (150-300°F) temperature changes, especially when they're supporting the handguard and the shooter changes the way he holds the gun and consequently the tension on the barrel.
 
My gf is taking some interest in shooting and would like to have a rifle just in case. With the price of ar parts being pretty darn low I figures I'd help her out. I'm an Ak guy though normally and do not know a lot about what's on the market currently. I know I can do a complete upper and lower from psa for pretty cheap but I'd really love to get something relatively light weight so she's into shooting it more. She gets tired and has terrible groups with my heavier guns. What are you guys thinking? I'm not looking for the lightest one in the world, just lighter than usual if that makes sense. Limit of 6 or 700 without sight/optic but ideally less would be nice. Thank you for your time.

Building or buying is going to determine your options. Your standard off the shelf AR15 with carbine gas system is going to weigh in at 6.5 lbs with iron sights. A mid-length gas system will add a couple of ounces. The weight is mostly in the barrel and a pencil profiled barrel will save you about 3/4 lbs and about 1/2 lbs with polymer receivers. The polymer receivers seem like the benefit outweighs the risks for me. Others obviously disagree and to each their own.

If the issue is groups opening up from fatigue it sounds like maybe a focus on shooting positions would help. The reality is that 1/2-3/4 of a pound really isn't going to make a tremendous difference in fatigue. My daughter has been shooting an off the shelf since she was 11 years old and she's not even close to being in athletic shape. Through training and the learning of different shooting positions and techniques, just about anyone should be able to go hours of shooting with an off the shelf AR15 before fatigue becomes a real factor.
 
Just asked my wife to get a women' opinion for ya. She said that the problem with most of my AR's is that "the front is to heavy". I already knew she thought that because she says so all the time but figured I confirm it. The overall weight isn't a problem. Her favorite is a pencil barrel PSA upper i have on a Aero lower. It came with a cheap but lightweight freefloated handguard. I would start there and let her pick out the furniture to finish it off.
 
Just asked my wife to get a women' opinion for ya. She said that the problem with most of my AR's is that "the front is to heavy". I already knew she thought that because she says so all the time but figured I confirm it. The overall weight isn't a problem. Her favorite is a pencil barrel PSA upper i have on a Aero lower. It came with a cheap but lightweight freefloated handguard. I would start there and let her pick out the furniture to finish it off.

Maybe a pencil barreled carbine with a A1 or A2 fixed stock, then? I know when I took off the M4 adjustable stock and installed a USGI weight A1 on my AR the weight came back to the shooter. Even more so if you put something inside the hollow of the stock.
 
I still recommend checking out the OMNI by ATI. Poly receivers have come a long way. According to my LGS the parts are all interchangeable with standard AR receivers.
 
Sorry for the long response time from me guys. I work on boats up in Alaska and have limited connectivity at times. That single piece lower and stock that is polymer is interesting and i will read up on it. I have always been leery of polymer lowers because i have friends whose pin holes have gotten bigger. It looks like a viable option if its strong enough. My girlfriend is perfectly fine shooting from a bench, but the being tired comment comes from offhand shooting, even when using the sling to help relieve weight. The pencil barrel with a full poly lower could be really nice and i want to thank you guys for all your input. I really appreciate it. Everyone here is a wealth of knowledge!
 
15D84DC0-5068-4819-BBE1-F2588876829C.jpeg I set out to build as light of a 300bo AR as possible without getting too exotic

My biggest weight savers
Whisky Arms aluminum BCG
Taccom buffer (no buffer basically)
Cav15 lower

Under 6lbs with a optic and a barrel that’s not as light as it could be.
 
Pin wear is addressed with the cav15 as it takes and ships with its own proprietary longer pins with more bearing surface to prevent wearing out.
 
View attachment 774762 I set out to build as light of a 300bo AR as possible without getting too exotic

My biggest weight savers
Whisky Arms aluminum BCG
Taccom buffer (no buffer basically)
Cav15 lower

Under 6lbs with a optic and a barrel that’s not as light as it could be.
I’m pretty sure that’s the thread that prompted me to buy my GWACS lower. They were on sale for like $89or something like that.

Regarding pin wear: if you can afford enough ammo to wear out the pin holes then the cost of a new lower will be minuscule in comparison.
 
Faxon at 1.2 lb is the light one, or their Gunner barrel is light out on the business end but has a little meat from the gas block back to help hold groups a few more shots. I have both with Alexander Arms MK10 hand guards. I don't worry to much about the weight behind the chamber, only what my left hand has to hold up.
 
The weak spot on poly lowers is where the buffer tube tower attaches. It doesn't take a lot of pressure to snap in off, especially since the buffer tube acts as a lever. I think ATI might have added metal stiffeners at that point, but I still like the GWACS CAV15 solution better: the entire lower and stock are a single assembly. They are in their own league IMO.

View attachment 774568

The most common break point for polymer lowers is between the takedown pin and the back of the grip. I'd be interested to see how this resolved with the one piece lower because I don't know that having the stock integrated into the lower would actually make that particular break point any stronger.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1053.JPG
    IMG_1053.JPG
    73.7 KB · Views: 5
I don’t know what all of those are, but don’t most gun games simulate some sort of extended combat with dozens of rounds being expended? That’s not really what I think of as a civilian application. Those are specialized applications that would probably benefit from specialized guns.

I’m thinking of the typical use that the gun I keep in my trunk might see, like shooting 2-3 rounds at a groundhog. I’ve never fired more than five rounds at a live target in my entire life.


Fair point. I guess I didn't really think of it as simulated extended combat but that is one way of looking at it and you aren't wrong. Pencil barrels do carry very nicely indeed. And they are nice offhand. They certainly have plenty of applications but so do heavier contours. It all depends on what you want to do with it! If I were building a rifle solely for my wife I would consider a pencil barrel.

Balance is also important. If you have a medium contour barrel and a very light stock, the rifle will feel heavier.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top