Are the DA/SA pistols staging a comeback??

Also 4) no untucked shirts and 5) no drawstrings and 6) no pocket carry and 7) holster slowly and without the muzzle covering any part of your anatomy and....

ATLDave said:

Also 4) no untucked shirts and 5) no drawstrings and 6) no pocket carry and 7) holster slowly and without the muzzle covering any part of your anatomy and....

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While I agree, I would probably categorize 4, 5 and 7 as training.

6 is a tougher issue, but I am sure there is a holster out there appropriate for this...?

Yeah, I was really just pointing out that there is now very clear, video and photographic evidence that a substantial number of the safetiless AD's have nothing to do with "trigger disciple" or "booger hooks" or Eric Bana memes. The flipper dealy doesn't know the difference between a finger pressing it and some inanimate object pressing on it. Obviously, a high degree of vigilance during holstering manages this risk extremely well.

The question that many should ask is whether they want to depend on a high degree of vigilance as their only protection against an AD. Different people can come to different conclusions on that question, which is part of why the safetyless strikers and the DA/SA will continue to co-exist in a mature marketplace.

For some reason, a lot of gun people badly want one particular [product] to "win" and become universal. That's silly. It's like wanting a particular carmaker or car format to "win" and be universal. It's not gonna happen, thank goodness.

If there is a "comeback" or resurgence in popularity of DA/SA's, it is only because of "fashion" and consumer market sales. Neither the military or police are going back there. Remember the DAO workaround from Beretta and Sig because DA/SA was a liability?

I too, am tired of our current cycle of everyone producing a polymer framed, striker fired handgun. It's not because these aren't reliable. It's not because they aren't accurate. But the "fashion" needs to change because these offerings are basically all the same. The market is saturated. People are drawn to what is new and different. I'm sure the manufacturer's sales figures show it. For sales growth, the emphasis needs to change so that people can expand their collections... and the sales figures.

Remember with me - In recent history, we've gone through:
the "boutique, high end 1911" cycle,
the "Taurus judge is the best anti-carjacking novelty ever" cycle which coincided with:
"I need a huge hunting revolver even though I can't handle the recoil and I don't hunt",
the "everybody just got their ccw license and needs a small, light ccw that they will never shoot because it hurts too much" cycle,
and the "better buy a hi-cap, police-grade (remember that ridiculous term?) handgun before BHO bans them" frenzy.
We have recently concluded the "every manufacturer is vying for the government's new handgun contract" cycle. Excuse me if I get sick when someone else introduces their "new" full size 9mm offering!


The only places left to promote until it cycles again are DA/SA's, which last cycled from the early 80's and ended in the mid 2000's
OR....the single shot TC or similar hand-rifle.
OR... plasma rifles in the 40kw range

Then, expect it to just cycle again

cougar1717 said:

The only places left to promote until it cycles again are DA/SA's, which last cycled from the early 80's and ended in the mid 2000's
OR....the single shot TC or similar hand-rifle.
OR... plasma rifles in the 40kw range

Then, expect it to just cycle again

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I had the plasma handgun in the 40kw range but traded it in for one in the 9kw range .The recoil in the 40kw was too snappy.

I think part of the resurgence of the DA/SA guns is less about DA/SA and more about people rediscovering the joys of steel-framed guns.

After several years of domination by Glock, the Production division of USPSA (and even more so international IPSC competition) has seen hammer-fired, steel-framed guns coming out on top. Although the number of competitive shooters is low compared to the whole marketplace, things that work well in competition tend to find their way into general use. While military and law enforcement procurement officers might love the cheapness of plastic and their end users the lighter weight, for people buying a gun for fun shooting, the competitive world provides a lot of hints as to what the best absolute shooting guns are. And the current craze in the competitive shooting world is metal guns. Heavy, metal guns.

ATLDave said:

I think part of the resurgence of the DA/SA guns is less about DA/SA and more about people rediscovering the joys of steel-framed guns.

After several years of domination by Glock, the Production division of USPSA (and even more so international IPSC competition) has seen hammer-fired, steel-framed guns coming out on top. Although the number of competitive shooters is low compared to the whole marketplace, things that work well in competition tend to find their way into general use. While military and law enforcement procurement officers might love the cheapness of plastic and their end users the lighter weight, for people buying a gun for fun shooting, the competitive world provides a lot of hints as to what the best absolute shooting guns are. And the current craze in the competitive shooting world is metal guns. Heavy, metal guns.

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I really don't think high end competition has any thing to do with handgun sales or even how gun makers are regarded. No one really follows it. Its not moving a Glock/HK/Sig fan off their favorite gun at all. New shooters are totally unaware of it. Really informed people realize it has a lot more to do with the indi.. pardon me, the native/american than the arrow.

I think it matters a little. I think it does seep out there. Probably the biggest way in which it influences people is in answering skepticism about whether Brand X can really be any good, if the Army and the local cops don't use it. CZ has almost no government contracts in this country, but they seem to be doing better and better in the market/sales. I don't think it's mere happenstance that this coincides with their boom in competition.

Have have plenty of examples of both types (as well as single action guns).

Honestly striker is my preference for a carry gun - single action for a range gun. DA/SA is mostly last. Doesn't mean they're not useful though and the extra trigger weight or safeties CAN help.

Yes, trigger discipline is paramount, and yes, people should obey the 4 rules of safety, but I'd much rather someone who violates them get a "OMG that could have been so bad if they safety had not been on. "moment rather than a "Well, you just shot a family member and it's all your fault" moment - even if it really IS their fault.

Strikers have become so prevalent with new shooters that SA and DA/SA actions have been overlooked.

I've always preferred DA/SA actions over any others for carry.

Mostly because I don't like manual safeties or heavy triggers on carry guns.

WVsig said:

Most people including LEO these days do not train enough to master the DA/SA pull and its transition. IMHO. It is a great platform but you have to learn to run that gun. It requires a different sort of training then a DAO striker. Both platforms have their pluses and minuses. I personally do not see a trend back to DA/SA guns no matter what a 2016 article states. In fact I see more companies like HK and Sig developing more striker fired guns.

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Quite so. And we even started seeing more SA guns like Ruger Security-9 with a DAO-like trigger pull (that one still has a manual safety, but LCP II does not). DAO and SA - yes, DA/SA - lulwhut. It may increase in popularity among the chattering gunnies in the media, but it is no different from the comeback of 10 mm.

What goes around, comes around. Some of the earliest semi-automatic pistols (i.e. Borchardt, Luger and Roth Steyr) were striker-fired, which were eclipsed by hammer-fired SA pistols, which were supplanted by hammer-fired DA/SA pistols..

After trying lots of flavors, I now prefer DA/SA actions. I read the NRA article on the new XD-E, and I was unimpressed with the gun AND the article. For whatever reason, it seems manufacturers (at least Springfield) are talking up a DA/SA resurgence. But, will shooters want to buy them? I predict the XD-E won't be available for long. I visited my LGS last week, and the owner says he can't move DA/SA pistols at all, even though he had some nice Sigs priced to sell. He says everyone who comes in the shop only wants a striker-fired pistol. Oh well. Since the demand is so low, I brought home another .40 S&W P226, which is my favorite pistol by far. I wonder if IDPA would let me shoot duellist style? (just kidding)

The issue I had with DA/SA was the DA pull. I had a P229 and a couple of CZ's which had long, heavy (to me) pulls and it was causing my initial shot to be inaccurate. I had a trigger job done on the P229 and installed ultra-lite kits from CGW on my CZ's. The DA pulls are now fantastic and I'm accurate with them.

As long as I knock the plate down first DA pull I don't care. So far after 32 years I'm getting pretty good at it since I can now afford decent SA/DA pistols like my latest the CZ p-01. I have found that once I'm back at 25 yards or so I sometimes do struggle hitting the first plate. But in the 10-15 yard range drawing and hitting the plate is pretty fast and easy.

That being said 2 of my 3 belt CC pistols are striker fired basically because of weight and size. I'm really looking forward to checking out the new 365.

saturno_v said:

I do not understand the worry about safeties and decockers in DA/SA pistols. I do not need to use the safety to carry most of DA/SA guns. One in the pipe, decocked is all you need.
It's funny that the defenders of striker fired pistol talk about "lack of training" to defend the shortcomings of that platform.......so what about learning how to fire that first shot in DA mode?? That is training too....

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For me, at least, the "training" argument of striker fired pistol advocates seems circular, when you provide repeated evidence of trained
people having AD/NDs with striker fired guns. (another circular argument is to parse the difference between the two, so let's call it "when the gun goes off
against your intention") Then the response is these "trained" people are all idiots, some people can't be trained, etc.

IMO, SA/DA never stopped being popular, it's just that now more people are seeing the light than before.

ATLDave said:

Yeah, I was really just pointing out that there is now very clear, video and photographic evidence that a substantial number of the safetiless AD's have nothing to do with "trigger disciple" or "booger hooks" or Eric Bana memes. The flipper dealy doesn't know the difference between a finger pressing it and some inanimate object pressing on it.

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As far as I'm concerned this pretty much sums up the entire safety argument and is why I prefer DA/SA on a concealed carry pistol. As I've stated before, in SC there are lots of places I can't legally carry so I often have to un-holster and re-holster my pistol while seated in my truck. I carry outside the waistband at about the 3:30 position so I am re-holstering blind and mostly by feel. I can't see what is going on back there so keeping my thumb on the hammer and feeling for any movement while holstering is very comforting. You can't duplicate that with a striker fired pistol. My one striker fired pistol is an XDm which has a grip safety. I can come off that grip safety and use a "pinch grip" while holstering and feel relatively confident that if something gets in the trigger area the gun still won't go off and that is why I chose that model when I bought it.

Try clip on holsters, I have a safariland OWB and Blackhawk IWB.

Gun and holster removed together, instead of reholstering blind I just unclip holster and holster out in front where I can see clearly.

Have to admit that first DA pull on my hk usp 40 compact is the only thing about that pistol that turns me off. It's a police tradin pistol I got this past spring and has been my edc for at least 5 months now. I have an ebay purchased badger concealment kydex IWB holster with 15 degree cant that I carry at 2:30. I really do like that holster. Because of the DA pull and the new trigger I installed on my taurus pt111 g2 mill pro a couple of weeks ago I'm seriously considering moving to the taurus for EDC. At least another range trip and more double tap drills from the holster will decide that.

I think it's cyclical and "fashion" as stated above.

As was also stated, I find that most (75% maybe) new shooters generally prefer DA/SA guns. However, explaining the trigger to a complete newbie can be confusing/intimidating...

So maybe new shooters are going more training/practice and trying guns before just "getting the Glock cuz the cop friend said so".

JeeperCreeper said:

So maybe new shooters are going more training/practice and trying guns before just "getting the Glock cuz the cop friend said so".

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This is exactly what happened to me last year. Rented or borrowed over 30 pistols before deciding what pistol I wanted to buy for my first one. Funny thing is I ended up buying one I hadn't shot but still knew to start I was more comfortable with a DA/SA. If all that was available was Glock, M&P, or XD I probably wouldn't have gotten a pistol ever or went revolver.

TomJ said:

I had the plasma handgun in the 40kw range but traded it in for one in the 9kw range .The recoil in the 40kw was too snappy.

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With recent advances in 9 kw plasma they are just as effective as the 40 kw.