Non-Colt AR-15's- When did it all start? "Old timers" chime in.

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Colt SP1 lowers had a different front take down hole than Military contract M-16A1 rifles.

One could not simply drop an upper from a milspec gun onto a SP1 lower without a special adaptor, basically a large plug to fit the SP1 lower with a takedown pin to fit the new upper in an eccentric hole. I may have one around someplace.Opening the gun quickly without lining everything up could damage one or both receiver halfs.

An outfit called Old Sarge advertised parts in the old Shotgun News I believe in the late 1970's as did one of there regular big parts advertisers that had parts for everything under the sun.

I know some folks loath the Sterling AR-180s, but once you fixed the walking trigger and hammer pins they were fine. I staked mine before Sterling offered the long pins with c clips. Biggest issue even when new was magazine availability. Federal marketed some 30s that worked well in the rifles my friends and I had (3 Sterling and a Cosa Mesa) and believe it or not the Ram Line 3 in one worked in them all initially and in AR15s we tried and though they were a tight fit and had to be pulled from the gun in my then owned Mini-14. Unfortunatly after being in storage 25 years they were useless in all three....... neat idea though. A bud tired some of those mags you could store un sprung and slap together for use or use a 40 rounders....they were sort of emmph IIRC. Oh and the reason the four of us all had -180s was we all had bad experiences with service M-16A1s in the early to mid 1970s.

Bushmaster made their Bushmaster Rifle before they made ARs. I think the trigger mech was pretty much AR15. Some were OK and Some were trash. I rather liked the pistol version, somewhat better than the various AR pistols and the Leader (sort of an Ausie -180 offered as a rifle or pistol)

-kBob
 
I bought my first AR in 2001, a Bushmaster Dissipator. Back then the rule was ABC (Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt). This was when the "Milspec Chart" was a big deal as well.
 
Have to look back through my old gun digests, but Eagle and Olympic are the first two non Colt ar15 brands that come to mind.
 
"No one else can manufacture or sell your invention unless you give permission. However, this protection does not last forever. Depending on what you've invented, your patent will expire in either 14 or 20 years. When this occurs, anyone can copy your idea and market it."

That was what happened to the Decca Navigator. They only ever leased the receivers, not sold them outright (like IBM) because they wanted to generate a continuing revenue stream. Then the patents ran out and anyone was free to market the receivers, and that destroyed their business model, especially as the GPS system was being made available for nothing and they had no alternative product in sight.
 
Colt SP1 lowers had a different front take down hole than Military contract M-16A1 rifles.

One could not simply drop an upper from a milspec gun onto a SP1 lower without a special adaptor, basically a large plug to fit the SP1 lower with a takedown pin to fit the new upper in an eccentric hole. I may have one around someplace.Opening the gun quickly without lining everything up could damage one or both receiver halfs.

An outfit called Old Sarge advertised parts in the old Shotgun News I believe in the late 1970's as did one of there regular big parts advertisers that had parts for everything under the sun.

I know some folks loath the Sterling AR-180s, but once you fixed the walking trigger and hammer pins they were fine. I staked mine before Sterling offered the long pins with c clips. Biggest issue even when new was magazine availability. Federal marketed some 30s that worked well in the rifles my friends and I had (3 Sterling and a Cosa Mesa) and believe it or not the Ram Line 3 in one worked in them all initially and in AR15s we tried and though they were a tight fit and had to be pulled from the gun in my then owned Mini-14. Unfortunatly after being in storage 25 years they were useless in all three....... neat idea though. A bud tired some of those mags you could store un sprung and slap together for use or use a 40 rounders....they were sort of emmph IIRC. Oh and the reason the four of us all had -180s was we all had bad experiences with service M-16A1s in the early to mid 1970s.

Bushmaster made their Bushmaster Rifle before they made ARs. I think the trigger mech was pretty much AR15. Some were OK and Some were trash. I rather liked the pistol version, somewhat better than the various AR pistols and the Leader (sort of an Ausie -180 offered as a rifle or pistol)

-kBob
Yep, I had to get the anti-walk pins for my 180, and I remember the weird pins on the SP1. The guy who started bushmaster- his son was in the army with me. Ended up getting kicked out for falsifying jump records. Last I heard he was riding daddy's apron strings pushing another family of piston AR's.
 
When I was a kid I would go to the sporting goods store and look at the guns. There would be tons of wood stocked rifles and on the end would be this crazy looking thing, always a Colt. Later in the early nineties I wanted one of my own and the rule I heard over and over was "ABC." Meaning if you buy an AR get a Armalite, Bushmaster, or Colt. Everything else was crap, supposedly.
 
An article and ads from SWAT magazine from the Springfield Armory/Rock Island Armory and Eagle Arms Co. ARs:

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Really liked the looks of the XM15 with the walnut furniture!

I asked a Springfield Armory representative, on Commercial Row at Camp Perry, why they had not introduced a AR15. This was at least a decade ago. I was surprised to hear that Springfield Armory had, and the pictures above are proof. But, Colt Firearms sent Springfield Armory a "cease and desist" lawsuit. Now remember, our economic system, capitalism, combined with our legal system, works for the rich and powerful. It does not work for the small guy. Corporations sue each other all the time, and a large company suing a small company, to keep the small company's product off the market, while such actions are anti competitive, are immoral, but are entirely legal. Colt was flush with American Taxpayer money, from sales to the US Army, and sued Springfield Armory to keep SA's version of the AR15 off the market. According to SA, either they were going to be sued into the ground by Colt, or they had to sign an agreement not to sell AR15 type rifles. They had to keep to this agreement even though later, Colt sued Bushmaster about its AR15's, and lost!. Colt also sued Bushmaster about M4 carbines, and lost!.

Maybe SA has enough money to fight off a Colt lawsuit now, and we know SA is currently making AR15 versions. But they had to pull their earliest rifles from the market because of anti-competitive lawsuits from Colt

I personally think it would be better for the firearms market if Colt went away. I think it is a patent and trademark troll and the sooner it dies, the better for the rest of us.
 
The '94 ban making them popular makes perfect sense....

My 1st AR is a "BOHICA" made in berthoud, co. They started churning them out at that time, so the name is fitting.

Their rep is spotty, but mine runs great
 
Nesard = Sendra = Drasen (the real name of the owner). All incarnations of the same business. As I understand it, Nesard specialized in parts while Sendra sold lower receivers. (Some of the Sendra receivers were the basis of full-auto conversions done by others, such as RIA.) After Sendra got the initial bugs worked out, their lower receivers were quite good. I'm not sure if this outfit ever sold complete guns.

Yeah, Sendra actually sold both parts and complete guns.

Both companies were owned by the same guy. I ran into him at a gunshow in Huntington Beach, California in the early 90's and the banners for both companies were at the same table with the owner selling guns and parts kits at both.

I almost bought one of his 20 inch models at that show, but ended up getting a Chinese AK, a Daewoo DR-200 and an Argentine FAL instead.

The complete guns were actually pretty good if you didn't mind purple anodizing. The parts kits from mail order were a crapshoot depending on what lot and source they were from and depending on what was actually thrown in the box. He was getting stuff from all over the place.

Most of the AR's on his table were 20 inch models with a few of the 'Commando'/CAR-15 type with the huge Colt/Vietnam style elongated flash hider (don't remember the designation for the flash hiders) pinned on to bring it up to 16 inches.

Most of the ones I saw there had the A1 sights.
 

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Back in the 80s you built them up from parts or kits using after market lowers from places like Olympic Arms(now defunct), Sendra(defunct), Essential Arms, Eagle Arms(became Armalite). You bought parts from Lone Star Ordnance, Nesard, Sarco, Gunsmoke Enterprises, gun shows, The Shotgun News.
The early OLY billet lowers have to be one of the worst lowers I have ever used,not to TDP.
Early Essential Arms were cast(later switched to forged,after the 94 AWB) but of excellent quality, I know many SOT guns were built on these prior to May 19th 1986 and are still running. I believe Eagle was one of the first to offer a forged lower and were excellent for builds.

Individual parts were hit or miss back then, it wasn't like it is now. Places like Nesard offered good to total crap, plastic buffers, plastic trigger guards and mag buttons. Dick Drasen owner of Nesard got into hot water when Feds found he and some of his staff were "acquiring" parts from Illinois NG Armories. Nesard disappeared and M&A Parts later appeared, current owner was married to one of the Drasen daughters. The other daughter runs Model One Sales.
Once Colts M16 TDP got leaked to the industry the floodgate was opened.
 
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I remember guys in my unit who had bought some of the cheaper olympic guns. They ended up paying for them a second time in repairs and replacement parts.
 
i had a registered essential arms cast receiver and wore out a couple uppers on it back when 8lb jugs of accurate data powder were $52 and you could buy 3500 pulled down m193 projos from hi-tech for $75. (still have half an ammo can left of them). that cast lower survived 3gun matches and the late, great Pat Roger's carbine classes.

really miss those days
 
My first AR was built on an SGW lower made in 1982 and i believe, due to the serial # X10xx, is one of the first 50 lowers that SGW (early iteration of Olympic arms) made available to the public.
 
I bought my first AR at a sporting goods store in Baton Rouge in 1979 for $295. They called it a CAR 15. It was made by Colt and had a 16-inch chrome moly Barrel and a telescopic stock with the round handguards, no forward assist.
 
SGW, that's the name I was trying to remember. I was an armorer in the mid 80s and on the combat rifle team. We couldn't get rifles or ammo to practice, so I bought parts to build an HBAR, 20" A1. The team captain had one on an SGW so that's what I ordered. It ran great and I later used it several years prairie dogging with a flat top upper and scope. I ended up building several rifles and carbines for trading material. On the Nesard kits, invariably at least one part would be out of spec and I'd have to order replacement(s). The hammers and disconnectors were just ground down M16 parts. Oh, and you could order either AR or M16 parts kits - same price.
I once ordered 2 complete carbine kits and intended to sell one and nearly clear the other. They arrived the week of the ban - got greedy and sold them both.
SGWs were decent on fit and finish. PWAs had a little gloss to the finish and could be rough - almost like paint instead of anodizing. Later Eagle lowers were decent. You never saw Colt lowers for sale, just complete rifles that were out of my price range.
 
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The first AR I ever bought was around 1983 and it was a Colt SP-1. If there were clones at that time, I didn't know about them (long before the internet was widely available). So, if you didn't see it on your local gun store's rack, you probably didn't know about it. Most of the gun magazines back then were what we call today: Fudds. It was all bird hunting, single action revolvers......................... It was kind of weird looking back, knowing what I do today but I got into these military styled rifles early on. And a huge number of people at the local gun clubs or shooting ranges or whatever had no idea what the were. I bought an AK in the early 80s and nobody had ever heard of it and of course all the rednecks asked me what I was going to hunt with that ? I remember a local guy bought an HK and the news spread like wildfire. Every time that guy's name was mentioned, someone would say; he has one of those HK rifles from Germany. :rofl:
At that same time, I had a Mini-14 with the folding stock and flash suppressor. When I pulled that out at a range, people were dumbfounded.

The first AR I bought that was a clone was a Bushmaster 20" A2 and within a few months I bought a second Bushmaster 16" and an SGW "Stop Sign" rifle that was sort of like the Vietnam shorty with a collaspable stock and that real long flash suppressor. I had no concept of building my own rifle back then so if there was some cool configuration I bought a new rifle. I have no idea who was the first to build an AR other than Colt.


FWIW: I still own all of those rifles including the SP-1.
 
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I bought a CAR-15 kit from Nesard in 1991 and built it on an Essential Arms lower. I still have it and it still works. The stock was clearly a cheap plastic knockoff but all the other parts are fine and it shoots as well as any other 16” AR I’ve handled. It’s the only A1 style upper I own.

I paid $20 extra to have the upper assembled but it came as just a pile of parts. I torqued the barrel nut with a pipe wrench. Nesard send me a check for the $20.
 
The first AR I ever bought was around 1983 and it was a Colt SP-1. If there were clones at that time, I didn't know about them (long before the internet was widely available). So, if you didn't see it on your local gun store's rack, you probably didn't know about it. Most of the gun magazines back then were what we call today: Fudds. It was all bird hunting, single action revolvers......................... It was kind of weird looking back, knowing what I do today but I got into these military styled rifles early on. And a huge number of people at the local gun clubs or shooting ranges or whatever had no idea what the were. I bought an AK in the early 80s and nobody had ever heard of it and of course all the rednecks asked me what I was going to hunt with that ? I remember a local guy bought an HK and the news spread like wildfire. Every time that guy's name was mentioned, someone would say; he has one of those HK rifles from Germany. :rofl:
At that same time, I had a Mini-14 with the folding stock and flash suppressor. When I pulled that out at a range, people were dumbfounded.

The first AR I bought that was a clone was a Bushmaster 20" A2 and within a few months I bought a second Bushmaster 16" and an SGW "Stop Sign" rifle that was sort of like the Vietnam shorty with a collaspable stock and that real long flash suppressor. I had no concept of building my own rifle back then so if there was some cool configuration I bought a new rifle. I have no idea who was the first to build an AR other than Colt.


FWIW: I still own all of those rifles including the SP-1.
I had a SP-1 that I got in a trade- gave a guy a mini 14 and a universal carbine for it about 1989. then like a dummy I traded the SP1 away. Really wish I kept it. Back then I couldn't afford to just buy guns without getting rid of something.
 
I had a SP-1 that I got in a trade- gave a guy a mini 14 and a universal carbine for it about 1989. then like a dummy I traded the SP1 away. Really wish I kept it. Back then I couldn't afford to just buy guns without getting rid of something.

My old SP-1 still is a good shooter. I took it to a Project Appleseed event a couple years ago, and shot a Rifleman score with it both with iron sights and using one of those old "Colt" scopes that attaches to the carry handle. I take it out like once a year and have fun with it. I normally shoot 77 grain bullets in .223 but my SP-1 has a 1:12 twist barrel which won't stabilize bullets that heavy: so I have to dig up 55 grain loads when I want to take that out. I forgot about it the last time I took it to the range and had bullets keyholing; it took me a few shots to punch in on what was going on. I thought at first that the barrel had given up the ghost.
 
My old SP-1 still is a good shooter. I took it to a Project Appleseed event a couple years ago, and shot a Rifleman score with it both with iron sights and using one of those old "Colt" scopes that attaches to the carry handle. I take it out like once a year and have fun with it. I normally shoot 77 grain bullets in .223 but my SP-1 has a 1:12 twist barrel which won't stablize bullets that heavy: so I have to dig up 55 grain loads when I want to take that out. I forgot about it the last time I took it to the range and had bullets keyholing; it took me a few shots to punch in on what was going on. I thought at first that the barrel had given up the ghost.
My AR-180 is the same way. 55 grain PMC would be a good choice for your SP1.
 
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