First Bolt Action Rifle

The 7mm-08 would be fine for deer in the northeast. Almost every manufacturer makes an entry-level bolt at reasonable prices. The ones I recommend are the Savage Axis and Axis II, and the Ruger American. You can get the Savage with a 2-7 already on it; the scope is fine for starting out. Otherwise I recommend Nikon, Vortex, and Leopold scopes if you are buying it separately.

I recommend either a savage axis or 110/11. Either caliber is fine for what you want to hunt and ranges you want to shoot at. The biggest difference is long vs short action. Recoil isnt too bad for either caliber.

If you cant decide between either caliber, go with which one you get the best deal on. Ammo price is comparable for either.

There isn't much a 7mm-08 with a good 2-7x scope cannot do. IMO that's one of the most useful combinations available.

jimeast said:

I am getting ready to purchase my first bolt action rifle. My goal is to get competent at reasonable long yardage. The club I recently joined has 100, 200 and 300 yard ranges. I would also use this rifle for deer hunting in the northeast. The two caliber I am considering are 270 Win and 7mm 08 with a 2-7 scope. Any opinions on how to divine between these two calibers (ideally from experience with both calibers in similar rifles) and feedback on scope choices would be appreciated.

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Almost everyone does this process backwards in my opinion; choose your rifle first and choose the chambering second. Go to your largest local shop and shoulder all of the different rifles to see which ones fit you. When you find all the ones that fit you and that are within your price range, pick the one you like best.

As far as your chambering choices, I say neither. Every rifle you choose will be available in 308. You can get new 308 ammo for $0.28 (steel case) to $0.47 (new non-surplus brass case) per cartridge. Looking at the cheapest 270 ammo and 7mm-08 ammo, practicing with those rounds will cost you 210% to 260% more per shot fired, respectively. Look at ballistic tables and you’ll see there’s no significant difference between 270, 7mm-08, or 308 inside of 300 yards, and little difference inside of 400.

A 2-7x scope sounds fine for hunting, but you may find it frustrating to shoot paper at 300 yards if you want to make the tiniest groups.

I wouldn’t go high-end on the rifle or scope, after a few seasons of hunting and shooting you’ll have a better idea of what you do and don’t like, and will probably be ready to buy something else anyway (or move on to a different hobby if you find this one isn’t for you).

Choosing the rifle first isn't bad advice at all. I know certain brands fit me better than others. I would probably have owned more Remingtons in my life if they didn't insist on putting that monte carlo cheek swell on their stocks. However I'm sure a lot of people choose Remington for that reason. Savage stocks fit me well, as do Tikka stocks. Find a gun that fits you and see what caliber they have it in - that's a good approach too.

My favorite of many I own is a Remington Mod-7 in 7mm-08. It wears a Leupold 2.5-8 Vari-X III scope. Hard to beat it for an all around rifle for anything in N.America. I also have two .270's, but prefer the little Model-7 20"bbl and short action. I'm also particularly fond of the stock. It's perfect.

I had a late Model Savage Axis. Accurate rifle, but I despised the stock (grip area "wrong", very flimsy forend) and bolt handle. Sold it.

Ideal would be to find a used Marlin XS7 in 7mm08. Its been discontinued but is/was the best of the bargain entry level rifles offered in recent years. With a Leupold VX1 2-7x, in Leupold Rifleman low rings (rifle came with rail base), you'd be set!
I've owned two and both are/were tackdrivers with suitable ammo. 1/2moa in some instances.

Pretty hard to beat a Weatherby Vanguard and Burris Fullfield 2 3-9x. Little more outlay to start with, but you won't soon outgrow this combo.

GooseGestapo said:

My favorite of many I own is a Remington Mod-7 in 7mm-08. It wears a Leupold 2.5-8 Vari-X III scope. Hard to beat it for an all around rifle for anything in N.America. I also have two .270's, but prefer the little Model-7 20"bbl and short action. I'm also particularly fond of the stock. It's perfect.

I had a late Model Savage Axis. Accurate rifle, but I despised the stock (grip area "wrong", very flimsy forend) and bolt handle. Sold it.

Ideal would be to find a used Marlin XS7 in 7mm08. Its been discontinued but is/was the best of the bargain entry level rifles offered in recent years. With a Leupold VX1 2-7x, in Leupold Rifleman low rings (rifle came with rail base), you'd be set!
I've owned two and both are/were tackdrivers with suitable ammo. 1/2moa in some instances.

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Great advice from all I know about the Marlin XS7, that caliber and that scope. I love that VX-1 2-7x

There is nothing wrong with 270 or 7-08 for hunting, but you may want to consider 308. It is commonly available everywhere, and there is a larger selection of ammo at more reasonable prices- including surplus ball for practice on paper. As far as what rifle, take your pick. There are plenty of great new production rifles out there from many manufacturers, at competitive prices- Ruger American, Mossberg MVP or patriot, Savage, etc. Nowadays, there is no excuse to buy a new rifle that is a piece of junk since there are so many good options that won't break the bank.

It's hard to go wrong with a .308.

To me, the 7mm-08 is a more versatile caliber, but really only if you hand load. If you do hand load, there really isn't anything a .308 or .270 can do that the 7mm-08 isn't a little better at. If you don't hand load, the edge goes back to the .308 or .270 simply because of the variety and price of factory ammo.

7-08 is a great round, but unless you reload ammo is less common and more expensive than 308. On paper the 7-08 is marginally better. At 500 yards with the best loads in each 7-08 drops 2" less and has about 30 ft lbs more energy.

The 270 is a well respected deer hunting cartridge, not so much as a target round and has more recoil than you need.

For your uses the debate should really be between 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. The Creedmoor is a relatively new cartridge that has about 25% less recoil than 308 or 7-08, about 35% less recoil than 270 and is proving to be more accurate than any of the above. Inside of 300 yards the 308, 7-08 and 270 look better on paper, but all 4 have more than enough power for elk size game. But beyond 300 yards the more aerodynamic 6.5mm bullets start leaving the others behind. 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is everywhere and reasonably priced. Much better availability than 7-08. The Hornady factory loads are match grade, shooting 1/2 MOA from most rifles.

A 2-7X scope will work. But when you get to 200-300 yards you'll want more X's. A 3-9X scope doesn't cost any more and are the most common for a reason.

My go-to rifle suggestion in these cases is the Ruger American Predator. Locally they are $389 out the door. I have nicer, more expensive rifles, but none more accurate.

https://ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/specSheets/26973.html

I like short-action cartridges and short-action rifles to launch them, so that favors the 7mm-08. My go-to hunting rifle that I used for years in the woods of PA and NY is an older Remington Model 7 with an 18.5-inch barrel and 2-7X Leupold compact in .308 Win. The 7mm-08 is an outstanding cartridge. The .308 has the advantage of a wider selection of factory ammunition. I would favor the 7mm if you plan to reload, the .308 if not. You can't really go wrong with either.

As far as rifles go, good affordable options with Ruger and Savage. I think I'd favor the Ruger American on a budget.

The Creedmoor is a relatively new cartridge that has about 25% less recoil than 308 or 7-08,

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I agree the 6.5 CM is a strong consideration these days for both target and deer. However, the one 6.5 CM that I've owned kicked - to me - just as hard as my 7mm-08 and .308's. I was kinda shocked at the recoil from a considerably smaller round. I sold it because I just didn't see enough difference in recoil or downrange performance to justify keeping it. My 7mm-08 will do anything a 6.5 CM will do, plus a few more things. But it's always good to have choices.

While there may not be a noticeable difference between the 7-08 & 308 Win while hunting? When you start sending large quantities of rounds downrange semi-target shooting, the effects of throat erosion from the smaller diameter 7 mm projectiles with equivalent 308 powder charges will become noticeable at a much lower expended round count. Part of the formula for throat erosion is diameter of the projectile, the larger the diameter with similar powder charges the less throat erosion. (i.e. longer barrel life)

At the risk of piling on, I agree with others that have suggested the .308

The cost and availability of ammo allows you to shoot more.

I've owned, shot, and reloaded the .308, 7mm08, and .270 for decades. In a same make and model rifle, given a 150gr bullet, I don't think I could tell the difference in recoil.
Out to 300yds, the .270 will shoot a little flatter, the .308 hit a little harder, and the 7mm08 essentially indistinguishable between the other two.
If shooting F class competition, some classes are limited to .308.
Otherwise, the 7mm08 is superior past 300yds.
I'm not a big fan of the .308. I only shoot CMP high power, so my competition rifle is a AR15 A2 Match rifle. The 5.56 has eclipsed the 7.62 for service rifle competition. My .30cal hunting bolt actions are a ultra lite .30/06 and a Savage M110 in .300 RUM.
I guess I'm just biased against the .308 as even my most accurate one wasn't as accurate as all but one of my various .30/06. The Garands excepted, but they aren't any slouches, either...
pick what tickles your fancy or what ever you stumble across the best deal on. All are good choices. The particular make and model rifle will be more significant. Decide first on characteristics and features you want. Then caliber, chambering.

Some good advice here, especially the suggestion that you shoot something for awhile to get an idea of what you like better. I started out with a used Remington 700 .270, a very nice looking wood stocked version I picked up at a gun show for $500. I put a Burris Fullfield II 4--14X 42mm on it and it's a fine deer rifle as evidenced by the venison in my freezer. BUT, I've also killed deer with my .243 and am fine tuning another new .243...both Remington 700s. All that said, I'm looking at Tikka as another option....caliber to be determined at a later date. A friend of mine has several great deer rifles all different calibers and changes his mind frequently as to which one he likes best....and he's killed a bunch of deer. The long and short of it is, ya gotta buy something and shoot it. Everyone like something different. I get very excited about buying a new rifle and building the ammo, the trigger, the scope, all of it. Have fun and let us know what emerges in your quest.

I have owned lots of rifles and calibers. My current rifle is a Tikka T3 in stainless steel. chambered in 7-08. Perfection. Their are many other choices but for deer hunting, this is it. For long range target shooting you would probably have to reload for it for economy reasons. The best hunting scopes would be Leupold VX 2 0r 3. in my opinion, though I have a Weaver Grand Slam 3-12 40 on my Tikka. I like Remington for target only rifles, They are always good shooters and they have the most upgrades available but again other good choices too. A Sniper friend just bought a Bergara in 6.5. I trust his judgement.

d2wing said:

I have owned lots of rifles and calibers. My current rifle is a Tikka T3 in stainless steel. chambered in 7-08. Perfection. Their are many other choices but for deer hunting, this is it. For long range target shooting you would probably have to reload for it for economy reasons. The best hunting scopes would be Leupold VX 2 0r 3. in my opinion, though I have a Weaver Grand Slam 3-12 40 on my Tikka. I like Remington for target only rifles, They are always good shooters and they have the most upgrades available but again other good choices too. A Sniper friend just bought a Bergara in 6.5. I trust his judgement.

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I have the same rifle, and the exact same opinion of it. Perfection is not a word I throw around loosely, but it applies to the stainless Tikka T3 in 7mm-08. Within just a few hunts and trips to the range, it was clear I had something unlike any other rifle/caliber combination I've ever owned.

My choice for scope was the VX-1 3-9x40 with the long range reticle. It's a match made in heaven.

I'm going to toss out a little F-Class shooting honesty. Anyone want to post their 1K scores with thier 7-08 Tikka?
Perhaps we should just compile a listing of 7-08 or Tikka scores at the 1K F-Class Line?
How about single clean rounds shot at the 1K F-Class line with any 7-08 or Tikka?
Bet I get a little flack, but even less actual figures?

Now: @ 600 yards .223/5.56 vs 7.62? @ 1200 yards .223/5.56 vs 7.62? @ 1800 yards 7.62 vs .50 BMG? Competitively, did the 6.5 or 7 mm enter into any of these conversations? Nuff Said?

FWIW..as for the scope, I just got a Leupold 2-12x42 CDS Firedot VX-6 for my deer rifle. If you can swing the $$$ I consider it pretty close to optimum. It is astoundingly clear and bright.

And, the 12x would help for target shooting. I have a Leupold 4-14 on my precision .22. The magnification really helps.

Should I actually want to compete in any F-Class Competition,perhaps I would google what actual F-Class Competitors have used to compete with in actual F-Class Competitions? JMHO.

Nothing limits a competitor more than the quality of thier tools. JMHO. Best shooter in the world with inferior equipment usually leads to the best shooter going home early. JMHO. Best equipment with an inferior shooter, didn't get to the party anyway. Once again JMHO.

I got the Ruger American in 7mm-08 and mounted a Vortex 3x9-40 and use it for deer hunting. I reload for it so it is economical. I recommend the Ruger and the caliber.