Doing What is Necessary to Break Gun Culture 2.0 of Youtube

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barnbwt

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Mods: This is for sure and for certain a plan of action in defense of gun owner advocacy, before you go closing this immediately.

The Problem:
The modern gun culture responsible for our success in recent years is almost entirely due to content-sharing on the internet (the rest is video games). Content-suppliers are now openly conspiring against the proliferation of pro-gun, and even generally gun-related media. As centralized as the internet media complex has become (Youtube/Google, Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram), and as hostile toward firearms as the people who run these companies from Silicon Valley are, they will succeed in crushing the modern gun culture before we can react if we do not seek out alternative means of sustaining ourselves. They have made their intentions known.

The Situation:
In recent months, a number of these large media outlets like Twitter and Youtube have begun broadening their definitions of 'offensive content' to include things that they (the employees and managers of these generally urban-Californian corporations) disagree with politically. Things that make them angry or upset, for example. Like seeing guns that should be banned and are banned in CA being used freely by people in other states. Given the range of other offensive content (war footage, gruesome injuries, militant groups advocating violence) that is not only tolerated but celebrated, the double standard is so stark and obvious there can be no doubt that there are good intentions at play.

It seems the anti-gun folks finally learned their lesson, and stopped focusing on the guns, and now we have a real problem on our hands. They have completely lost their fear of the NRA at last after their waffling in Vegas and Florida, and are attacking the gun culture (i.e. gun owners) directly from multiple avenues that completely bypass our governmental protections.

The Solution:
Stop watching Youtube. That's it. Simple, right?

Wrong. Remember, internet media access is the air the modern gun culture breathes, and without it we will die out rapidly into a bunch of isolated Dale Gribbles fondling guns in the basement as they are banned out from under us before the word even gets out (basically pre-1994 Assault Weapons Ban).

We have to be strategic in our next moves, or we will be driven from these remaining public avenues of discussion and coordination before we can regroup, and at that point we are defenseless to the sorts of betrayals that even now are being attempted in DC (today's big spending bill had a litany of gun-control items tossed into it shortly before passing the House, for no logicial reason and in exchange for no benefit to gun owners). What follows is broadly technical, at least for folks who are very unfamiliar with how websites or the internet work. It's important to understand these basics, though, if we want to insulate ourselves from this anti-gun hijacking of the internet we're seeing.

-Step One: Identify Our Resources & Their Reliablility
From the perspective of gun owners, this means take stock of which services you use to view 'gun stuff' and talk to 'gun people.' The forum, for example. Is it pro-gun? Does it have rules banning the discussion of lawful gun-related topics because of political stances? Is it owned or operated by people who are known to be very hostile to gun rights, and are willing to lose money harming us?

The High Road is known to be generally very open to discussing almost any gun-related topic that isn't outright illegal, and what censorship is present here generally arises because the primary goal is keeping discussion civil (even if more energetic discussions are sometimes appropriate or necessary). Neither of these is a barrier to our continued freeloading posting here as members, so the site is likely okay for now ;). Knowing more about the ownership & web services THR uses would make me feel even more secure basing my social-media presence here.

A website like Google Groups, on the other hand... Well, Google has just come out and said they will not tolerate any video promoting the sale of guns, or even the use of assault doohickeys. Now, that puts a major damper on discussions, and more importantly, is indicative of a site-management culture opposed to firearms, that is also ready-willing-and-able to shut down users to promote that ideal. Big strike one. Political donation tracking websites have documented that Google overwhelmingly donates to anti-gun politicians, so that's another strike. Three, corroborated stories of collusion with anti-gun political parties and fiddling with search results to promote anti-gun web pages. Strike three. If you are a current user, take note of the hostile territory, and seek out alternatives, and work to bring your circle of peeps along with you. In the long run it's a better end than walking on increasingly thin eggshells until you are banned for liking guns too much. Probably not a good idea to build your gun culture on such untrustworthy ground.

Speaking of 'solid ground,' the 'guts' of the web portal that is seen by mods, developers, and site owners is just as critical. Just last year Google unilaterally shut down & deleted a controversial neo-Nazi site for similar "it's politically offensive to everyone" reasoning, even though they had no legal right to do so. "First they came for the Nazis, but I was not a Nazi" and all that.

Google was essentially acting as 'land lord' for the site, leasing them a "domain" (the 'XXXXX.com' core address), which they unilaterally revoked without notice or compensation --essentially burning down the rent-house with the tenants' belongings still in it-- based upon a novel reading of their terms of use agreement that had never been enforced with such severity before, and again, without warning. Well, unless you count the vitriol hurled at the site from politically-linked hardliners for years beforehand...similar to what we are starting to see expressed toward gun owners at large by the very same folks today.

It's essential that the portals we conduct our Gun Culture in are leased from (ideally) objective overseers who would not be expected to do something so drastic. Second to this is ensuring the same objective or supportive working relationship exists with the server companies that own the hardware 'hosting' all the content we users enjoy. Even better is owning the actual hardware, but depending on the business model of the portal this may be impractical. The last thing we'd want is all the data we've ever posted or uploaded being held hostage by a holding company, and threatened with deletion if we don't dance to their anti-gun tune. When Photobucket suddenly blocked almost every user's images from displaying outside their website last year, an incalculable number of gun forum posts suddenly became worthless. Worse yet, for at least some period of time (perhaps still) the site blocked them from even downloading their own images so they could be copied to other services that were still willing to display them on third-party sites. The combination of permissive hosting rules and hardware capability is what spawned the much-talked-about collaboration between InRangeTV of Full30.com (a small but growing host service) and PornHub of all things (a massive and well-established video hosting platform that specializes in pornography, but is also willing & able to carry/stream more obscure run & gun videos than Ian & Karl could ever produce, and without the threat of termination)

So with the homestead secured (the domain & the data storage) next is the house itself; the website. Is your website produced or maintained by an anti-gun company or employees? Would they refuse to let you renew a use or service contract, or even sabotage your site for political reasons? Is the same true of the software they are using to develop the site? If Google can ban Youtubers for posting bump fire videos, they will darn sure refuse to offer web services to "bumpfire.com," and likely soon.

At this point the concern is management & membership for the site. I would argue that if a site owner & webmaster have been diligent enough to take care of these previous basics, they probably don't need to worry about the stuff downstream, or they will notice if it's going off the rails. "Take care of your pennies, and your dollars will take care of themselves"

-Step Two: Reallocate our Resources
Knowing your landlord hates you isn't enough to keep from being evicted, obviously. We have to do what is necessary, and extricate ourselves from toxic, abusive relationships with our partners, I mean, our business partners ;)

Individual users; set your browser to block the Youtube domain completely. If you want to see something and a search result chases up a youtube link that's the only source, contact the poster and ask them to relocate their stash to friendly territory before it is deleted. If the content is ancient and dormant, download it using keepvid or similar to your machine, and post it someplace public where it will be safe for posterity; the original poster probably appreciates it, wherever they are (and if they don't, they'll politely but firmly ask you to take it down; no biggie)

This same approach can work for Facebook/etc as well, but is more difficult since there are not as many even passable alternatives as there are for simple video hosting. I would recommend looking into several alternatives, choosing one that seems the best, and gradually moving your activities there as you convince friends to join you. If your friends find better success putting down roots in some other social media platform, move over to it; this is the one game where bunching up is the only strategy.

For site owners & developers, be diligent and use friendly or ambivalent service providers. The risk and drama presented by this brave new hostile internet are simply not worth some minor cost-savings or personal preference. For store owners, making sure the back-end outfit handling the flow of web-store money securely is a friendly business partner is hugely critical. When choosing ad companies, select those that don't have a history of dumping customers without notice because of politics or scandal, and who don't cater to known anti-gun demographics. It'd be cool if Washington Post Op-Ed fans would learn more about guns, but it's far more likely they will turn on us and threaten to withhold ad sponsorship after some fiasco.

"The Net sees censorship as damage and routes around it" --John Gilmore

From my incredibly basic understanding of web platforms, this *seems* like it covers the most basic of the bases, but of course there is always more to it. I think the major thing is we need to adopt the 'paranoid' mindset of being mindful of whom we deal with if we identify ourselves as the vanguard of the Gun Culture. Instead of being naiive and trusting of our business partners to deal with us fairly, and not conspire against us for political reasons, which has worked for the past decade or two.

Maybe this older, wiser, more strategically-minded mindset toward common interest will be called Gun Culture 3.0 (or 2.1, or however we want to term it) ;)
 
The Step Two --the 'choosing web services and outlets that are friendly to us' part-- is the hard part. That is the real purpose of this thread, to document these alternatives that are currently in use, so we can decide to reallocate our social media presence to friendlier skies going forward. My fingers are tired, so I will give the rest of you a chance to start the list yourselves, and begin compiling my own list in the mean time.

If this can end up one hundredth as successful as DCDalton's ongoing list of gun-related legislation up for review, it should be a huge success ;)
 
It's worth pointing out that logical next steps on the anti's agenda will likely be going after other types of videos which feature guns - movie clips, violent video games, etc. While certainly not on the immediate horizon, the "slippery slope" argument is definitely worthwhile. Anti-gun kids might suddenly realize "oh, yeah.. they might take down my favorite game trailers or fan-produced videos of play", or slide in to prohibiting other videos which "promote" gun violence, such as violent movies, TV shows, and so on.

Start sowing those seeds of thoughts in to those who are on the other side, who might think "meh, this is no big deal. Banning gun videos is a good thing."

Banning ANY class of common information is not good. And yes, firearms are "common" and have been for centuries.

What happened today may happen another several decades down the road, when someone is inevitably going to push for the outlaw of gasoline or diesel vehicles in favor of electric. "If we restrict information on how to repair these pollution machines, then eventually there won't be any of them left." (To give one possible similar future example.)

The reason I bring this up is the left is working very, VERY hard to make gun owners villains in the public consciousness.

"You won't give up your rights and more people are dying, and that makes it your fault!"

While failing basic logic tests, that emotional appeal will gain traction as gun owners continue to be projected as "the bad guys" in all mainstream media and across social media. What used to be healthy debates is now turning in to something else entirely, at least, in my own recent experiences. The "great divide" has essentially reached the point of scorning. I've personally seen many friends on both sides "de-friend" those on the other side because they don't agree about guns. Even friends that have known each other for 15-20 years.

This is a very serious change in how things are going, and the anti-gun crowd gaining traction with sites like Youtube, or with other commercial companies to quit doing business with those involved with guns, is very real. I just read tonight that Citigroup is halting any business with customers who "will continue to sell guns to those under the age of 21."

This is no longer purely a political issue. This has progressed in to something beyond politics.

When businesses quit doing business with each other over a social issue; when friends are cutting decades long friendships over this issue; it means both sides are slipping perilously past any point of reconciliation.

So how we conduct ourselves in the coming months and years will be of the utmost importance.

Keep this in mind, when you are deciding "what are we gonna do!" about these various economic and social changes.

Take a long view of the situation, and suppress your initial emotional response; take a breather, this is not going to be resolved overnight.

Barnbwt took a good comprehensive look at what is going on, and unlike a couple of other threads I have seen about this issue, took the time to ponder, tinker under the hood, and come up with the basics of a game plan.

Let's keep this same dignity and responsibility, moving forward in this thread.
 
Its ....

soooooo.......

much ......
easier...
to...
simply.......

NOT use youtube for an announced 3-4 days. Its about $$$$, no views, no clicks. No clicks, no looking at ads, no purchases.


Gee, if only 20% of firearms enthusiasts would do this AND it was announced somehow, it might even make national news. Effect stock options, futures.


I defer to commentary from the '' gee we CAN'T do something simple:p, lets do something difficult!:alien:NOT'' crowd
 
Individuals here saying they won't use YT for a week won't get the result we need. We need some way to make a broad based and coordinated "walkout" on YT take place across the population of users so they see a big dip in eyes. At the same time we need to make a competitor reflect an increase in traffic. We have to broaden our reach beyond folks interested in firearms to include 1A advocates and net freedom advoates to increase the impact from just us. We need to have homeowners and business owners block YT on their networks and WiFis to ensure during that week that no one uses their connection's to access YT (even if your spouse and kids comlain). But that all takes organization to be more than just a few disgruntled "gun nuts" grumbling on a forum.
 
I fully expect YouTube to pull a photobucket move to charge a premium for hosting content, then hold the content for ransom. There should be a video server devoted to 2a protection an all that THAT entails. As popular as some YouTube personalities are, and as popular as disassemble/clean/reassemble videos are then there should be enough traffic to generate revenue from ads.
 
I fully expect YouTube to pull a photobucket move to charge a premium for hosting content, then hold the content for ransom. There should be a video server devoted to 2a protection an all that THAT entails. As popular as some YouTube personalities are, and as popular as disassemble/clean/reassemble videos are then there should be enough traffic to generate revenue from ads.

If you want to start a go fundme to get some startup capital, and can find a few programmers, and a marketing person, I have expertise is working with top tier hosting providers to setup the servers and load balancer so it will scale to the level needed to be vialbel. I also have experience with project management and working with teams located all over the world so I can help coordinate it all once the team is in place.

It could be setup as a not for profit, and funds beyond operational costs could be used to support pro 2nd Amendment causes and groups.

I’d be willing to commit hours to this (8 to 12) a week if others are willing to donate time initially.
 
Perhaps you don't quite understand what you are dealing with. Google has the cash to last like fifty years without ANY revenue. This rule change of theirs is clearly made with the expectation of a loss of revenue, in exchange for effecting long term social change (killing the gun culture and cementing themselves as an unelected dictator of public policy)

Any business out there can survive a 3-day boycott. That's a pointless joke of an 'effort,' and we all know most gunowners won't be bothered to do even that much. Once again, we need video hosting to sustain our gun culture much more than they need our business, and they know it. A hunger strike won't dissuade the people trying to starve you out via embargo.

Even if we could scare them into backing down, they would remain hostile --even more so, actually-- and still work to undermine us wherever they could. That's what the "monetization" games were about; making it impossible to do a Youtube gun channel for a living, so less content would be generated. Most viewers likely still aren't aware of this development, and think the channels they watch are doing as good as ever. Patreon sprang up as a way these guys could supplrment their income enough to keep the channels up, so now Youtube is attacking the content directly.

Alternatives are the only long term solution here. Alternatives that are valuable fonts of info & entertainment will get the ambivalent gun owners away from Youtube, and more importantly, will get the content away from their control
 
If you want to start a go fundme to get some startup capital, and can find a few programmers, and a marketing person, I have expertise is working with top tier hosting providers to setup the servers and load balancer so it will scale to the level needed to be vialbel. I also have experience with project management and working with teams located all over the world so I can help coordinate it all once the team is in place.

It could be setup as a not for profit, and funds beyond operational costs could be used to support pro 2nd Amendment causes and groups.

I’d be willing to commit hours to this (8 to 12) a week if others are willing to donate time initially.
I would love to donate time, but my computer program skill set and overall computer literacy kinda died about the time laptops emerged as the cheaper option over a desktop. Even in my professional life I struggle with some of this new crap, and I can’t figure solidworks out to save my life. I might actually take classes on solid works just to get back up to speed doing the basics. I miss autocad 2004 and the command line. I just don’t know what I would be able to do that would be a meaningful contribution.
 
If you want to start a go fundme to get some startup capital, and can find a few programmers, and a marketing person, I have expertise is working with top tier hosting providers to setup the servers and load balancer so it will scale to the level needed to be vialbel. I also have experience with project management and working with teams located all over the world so I can help coordinate it all once the team is in place.

It could be setup as a not for profit, and funds beyond operational costs could be used to support pro 2nd Amendment causes and groups.

I’d be willing to commit hours to this (8 to 12) a week if others are willing to donate time initially.
Why, when there are already alternatives (Full30, Bitchute, Liveleak, Vimeo, DailyMotion, and even PornHub, now) that are established and able to handle the traffic now? Hosting isn't enough, we need assurances the servers are safe, and we need enough bandwidth for many thousands of people to access the content. That's not something you put together with a Kickstarter.

The Facebook alternative is still truly lacking, but we should still have a bit of time to figure something out before FB bans all gun groups as opposed to just those arranging sales. I'm not big into the social media scene, so I don't know what's out there as an alternative, let alone who may be hostile to us or not.
 
I would love to donate time, but my computer program skill set and overall computer literacy kinda died about the time laptops emerged as the cheaper option over a desktop. Even in my professional life I struggle with some of this new crap, and I can’t figure solidworks out to save my life. I might actually take classes on solid works just to get back up to speed doing the basics. I miss autocad 2004 and the command line. I just don’t know what I would be able to do that would be a meaningful contribution.
Have your Browser block Youtube, and begin migrating your own videos someplace else. Ask your friends to do the same, and make sure they understand this new censoring effort.
 
This is a very serious change in how things are going, and the anti-gun crowd gaining traction with sites like Youtube, or with other commercial companies to quit doing business with those involved with guns, is very real. I just read tonight that Citigroup is halting any business with customers who "will continue to sell guns to those under the age of 21."

This is no longer purely a political issue. This has progressed in to something beyond politics.

When businesses quit doing business with each other over a social issue; when friends are cutting decades long friendships over this issue; it means both sides areslipping perilously past any point of reconciliation.

I figured Trent would 'get' it; IIRC you have experience with being the "gun nut counter-culture" from the bad old days (the 90s, where Janet Reno and Handgun Control Inc. loomed large). My own brother recently more or less broke with me because I insisted that no further gun control was strategically acceptable, that there was basically nothing left to give besides all autoloading firearms (bumpstock issue). He called me a terrible person for not "doing something" to stop gun violence & implied I was mentally unstable. That's basically a threat in this brave new world of 'gun violence restraining orders' and whatnot. He's mellowed out since that exchange, but it illustrated to me just how done with talking the opposition is. Negotiations have been closed for a long time, now.

We're well past reconciliation. I think that ship sailed when we rebuffed them after Newtown; that atrocity was to be *their* moment, that was to be the coup de grace for civilian gun ownership like was seen in many other disarmed nations, yet we frustrated them embarasssingly. It's plain that they decided to use their resources --big data and financial companies and billionaire activists' lobbying groups-- to bypass the lawmaking process entirely at the next big opportunity.

At this point I just want to be sure we have trenches & foxholes when the digital shells start flying.

It's too easy anymore to imagine a coordinated Blitzkrieg attacking gun forums, Facebook pages, hosted media, and online stores simultaneously; if your favorite stores lost merchant services, your forums lost their domains, Youtube deleted your favorite channels, Google blocked access to your gun photos, and Facebook shut down your favorite gun groups & banned all their members...how exactly do we recover from that before all sorts of laws & rules are passed to keep us from regrouping?

That's only a small handful of big, openly anti-gun, urban-leftist corporations to accomplish all that, and considering they conspired to influence public policy recently (2016 election and Choke Point) I'd say it's a serious near-term possibility.
 
Why, when there are already alternatives (Full30, Bitchute, Liveleak, Vimeo, DailyMotion, and even PornHub, now) that are established and able to handle the traffic now? Hosting isn't enough, we need assurances the servers are safe, and we need enough bandwidth for many thousands of people to access the content. That's not something you put together with a Kickstarter.

The Facebook alternative is still truly lacking, but we should still have a bit of time to figure something out before FB bans all gun groups as opposed to just those arranging sales. I'm not big into the social media scene, so I don't know what's out there as an alternative, let alone who may be hostile to us or not.

Did you read, what I said?
Yes hosting isn’t enough, that’s why I mentioned load balancing. I didn’t think I needed to go into a huge discussion of the infrastructure.

Those others are great. And I hope they get lots of support.

My comment was to see if it made sense to build a new site. Strictly pro 2nd Amendment that would be a not for profit and support our cause.

Frankly, I think associating gun content with porn only hurts us, so while I’m for protecting the 1st Amendment Rights of porn, I think putting our content with theirs only hurts us. As for the other sites, some I’ve only just learned about in the last few months and some I’m just hearing about.
 
Great OP. I've only had a few moments to skim but I like what barnbwt has to say. I plan to take some time this weekend and read through all the information above.

One piece stood out to me:
"(today's big spending bill had a litany of gun-control items tossed into it shortly before passing the House, for no logicial reason and in exchange for no benefit to gun owners)."

Oh it had a logical reason. It is a win-win tactic used before. If the spending bill passes with those items intact then the ones who put them in the bill win that battle. If the spending bill fails to pass, for whatever reason, then they have a "bloody shirt" to wave yet again: "See they don't care about our children! Vote for us in 2018!". By adding those items to the funding bill it forces Congress to take action without an opportunity for much debate or risk another government shut-down.
 
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Another draft you can use when posting to YouTube's support page on the new firearms content policy. https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/7667605?hl=en&ref_topic=2803176

YouTube/Google should not restrict information access to legal information. This policy is misguided since free access to information, even that not embraced by the masses, is important to a well informed and free digital society.
 
Did you read, what I said?
Yes hosting isn’t enough, that’s why I mentioned load balancing. I didn’t think I needed to go into a huge discussion of the infrastructure.

Those others are great. And I hope they get lots of support.

My comment was to see if it made sense to build a new site. Strictly pro 2nd Amendment that would be a not for profit and support our cause.

Frankly, I think associating gun content with porn only hurts us, so while I’m for protecting the 1st Amendment Rights of porn, I think putting our content with theirs only hurts us. As for the other sites, some I’ve only just learned about in the last few months and some I’m just hearing about.
Yeah, you're right. I wonder if a long term solution could be a sort of distributed network, something that takes balancing & diversification to an extreme so no one entity gets big britches (kind of like torrenting, but with threads or on-demand video)
 
Vimeo has a good reputation and is growing in popularity so it has much better potential if they are committed to unrestricted legal content like YT used to be. Liveleak has a less desirable reputation since they seem to relish posting disturbing material that fail the most basic YT criteria.

Limiting our approach to just firearms content instead of pointing to the bigger issue of restricting information on legal, if controversial, content as being dangerous to free exchange of ideas may be less effective than the broader approach. Ensuring a safe haven for content isn't difficult, but making it economically advantageous to the posters is where things break down since eyes and clicks mean dollars and cents to them. There are plenty of platforms to host content YT won't, but can it be made beneficial to the hosts and to the content posters is the bigger challenge.

The way to achieve that success is to pick a content hosting platform and urge everyone to move everything to that one.

It appears that https://www.full30.com is ahead of the pack in firearms hosting. https://www.full30.com/recently-added
 
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I know of at least one firearms blogger/trainer launched a kickstarter campaign and raised about $60,000 in a month and a half to start his own hosting service. It is James Yeager with LiberTV if you want to look it up - I think it launches today.

Personally I don't think the "LiberTV" moniker was a good choice because Yeager has a history of saying "this forum is my private property and if you don't follow the rules you're banned" (one of his forums used to say that on the home page) so it may not really be the mecca of free speech but it may provide a place for some 2A videos.

I don't think that every vbloger raising $60k for their own hosting is the way to go, but its certainly an interesting idea.

At this point I just want to be sure we have trenches & foxholes when the digital shells start flying.

It's too easy anymore to imagine a coordinated Blitzkrieg attacking gun forums, Facebook pages, hosted media, and online stores simultaneously; if your favorite stores lost merchant services, your forums lost their domains, Youtube deleted your favorite channels, Google blocked access to your gun photos, and Facebook shut down your favorite gun groups & banned all their members...how exactly do we recover from that before all sorts of laws & rules are passed to keep us from regrouping?
I've recently been concerned about this as well as privacy and anonymity within these groups. It may come as a surprise to some here, but the vast majority of people here, myself included, are traceable. It's not too big of a deal now but it could be in the future. I bet with an effort, a rather accurate list of what we all own could be made from just looking through our THR posts... everyone on the user list is basically a confirmed gun owner.

I'm actually a little surprised that forums and gun/accessory retailers haven't been hit with cyber attacks yet. Think about a site like Brownells - if they got hit and lost all of their customer data, that's a list of a whole bunch of people who own guns, and you could probably figure out what guns they owned from magazine or accessory purchases. Think about that for a moment - that's a shopping list for criminals or a doxxing list for anti-gun activists (think about when CCW holder names and addresses were published a few years ago). Now I expect that Brownells has at least decent security, but what about the smaller retailers that we commonly use? I doubt they have much security and they may not even know if their lists were compromised if the hacker didn't want to make a statement.

I think that we'll eventually need a two pronged approach - one side on the open net, and one side on the "deep web" (not a big fan of that term) with .onion sites. The .onion side of things would be resistant to being taken down and would provide decent technical security based on the structure. Nothing would help the guy who says "I have this banned weapon, here's my name, and I live here" but if people are moderately intelligent about what they say, discussion about anything could be fair game.

The downside is that you need to be slightly technical to be able to access .onion sites, so we might loose a portion of the older user population that just doesn't want to deal with it, or doesn't understand it. A bigger thing is you also loose search engine indexing which will make it difficult to drive new membership and content.

Also, worst case and we get driven completely to .onion sites and have the ongoing threat of discovery and prosecution (like I said, worst case), TOR is not enough - ideally you would want something like Tails*, Whonix, or Qubes or another security focused operating system on your computer or a flash drive that you can boot from in order to hide your IP (among other things) and really have a chance at being secure. And that just institutes more barriers to having people join (and effectively protect themselves). None of those OS' are really difficult to use, but it's just one more thing that people would have to do in order to be safe.

*Tails has even been cited, by name, by the NSA as a threat to their monitoring capability, so I would highly recommend it for anyone looking for security. Snowden likes Qubes, so that's a good endorsement as well.

Anyway, I think if you're thinking about building a network to protect against censorship by a private company, you should also consider what it would take to protect it from censorship by government actors.
 
I figured Trent would 'get' it; IIRC you have experience with being the "gun nut counter-culture" from the bad old days (the 90s, where Janet Reno and Handgun Control Inc. loomed large). My own brother recently more or less broke with me because I insisted that no further gun control was strategically acceptable, that there was basically nothing left to give besides all autoloading firearms (bumpstock issue). He called me a terrible person for not "doing something" to stop gun violence & implied I was mentally unstable. That's basically a threat in this brave new world of 'gun violence restraining orders' and whatnot. He's mellowed out since that exchange, but it illustrated to me just how done with talking the opposition is. Negotiations have been closed for a long time, now.

We're well past reconciliation. I think that ship sailed when we rebuffed them after Newtown; that atrocity was to be *their* moment, that was to be the coup de grace for civilian gun ownership like was seen in many other disarmed nations, yet we frustrated them embarasssingly. It's plain that they decided to use their resources --big data and financial companies and billionaire activists' lobbying groups-- to bypass the lawmaking process entirely at the next big opportunity.

At this point I just want to be sure we have trenches & foxholes when the digital shells start flying.

It's too easy anymore to imagine a coordinated Blitzkrieg attacking gun forums, Facebook pages, hosted media, and online stores simultaneously; if your favorite stores lost merchant services, your forums lost their domains, Youtube deleted your favorite channels, Google blocked access to your gun photos, and Facebook shut down your favorite gun groups & banned all their members...how exactly do we recover from that before all sorts of laws & rules are passed to keep us from regrouping?

That's only a small handful of big, openly anti-gun, urban-leftist corporations to accomplish all that, and considering they conspired to influence public policy recently (2016 election and Choke Point) I'd say it's a serious near-term possibility.

We're in a culture battle now. Youtube, Facebook, they're all just tools, and those tools are being controlled by the other side. They also have enough money and clout to live COMPLETELY without gun owners as a client base (or in the case of Facebook, we people are actually the "product" they sell, to advertisers.)

Boycotting them, and thinking that would have any effect on them whatsoever, is kind of laughable. They could live prosperously forever without any revenue generated by any of America's gun owners. That's simply how large they are, on the world stage.

Facebook has over 2 *billion* users. American Gun owners, if you use VERY conservative figures, and depending on what study you use, amounts to somewhere between 30-40% of households; of which, there's nominally one or two adults who own guns. So figure conservatively that a whopping 40% of *all* people in the United States own guns (counting kids and elderly and everywhere in between in those upper band 40% range of estimates). That'd put the amount of people with access to guns at 130 million.

130 million of 2.13 billion (Q4 2017 facebook # of users) puts us not too distant from a rounding error. Even *without* all of the gun owning households in the United States, Facebook still has over *2 billion users*.

Google's numbers on daily users are far more impressive than that. To Google, we are *less* than a rounding error. The gun owners of America, compared to the total population of the planet. THAT is the scale you are working with.

So to those proposing a 3 or 7 day boycott, please explain to me exactly who at those companies is going to even notice? Even if you got EVERY SINGLE PERSON who ever touched a gun to kick in for those days (which is impossible, you *might* get a fraction of a percent of those to participate), you aren't even going to be a blip on their radar.

You think you'll affect their STOCK PRICE? That's beyond laughable. That's truly absurd. Even if you got every gun owner to boycott Facebook, Google, etc for a YEAR, they wouldn't notice. Not one, tiny, little bit.

No, we need to think about what is going on here. A culture war is on, and the other side is doing everything conceivably POSSIBLE to demonize us, to criticize us, to make gun owners seem unsightly, unpalatable, and reprehensible.

And it's working.

Friends are de-friending friends. People are isolating themselves from the other side. Folks have drawn up battle lines and they quit talking to the other side.

Gun owners are being scorned and excommunicated left and right. In another thread on this board, there's a story about a man who walked out of a church he'd gone to for 15 years because the pastor suddenly went on an anti-gun kick.

Our very communities are being segregated and separated.

My DAUGHTER, my 13 year old DAUGHTER, has lost one of her good friends because she is "pro gun" and the other girl is "anti gun" - they quit talking to each other over differences about the "big school walkout."

This has permeated every last remote segment of our society, down to the point that our churches, our decades long friendships, and even our children are feeling fall out.

If you give in to "reactionary spitballs at a brick wall" (which is what a boycott basically is, when you are talking about how small and insignificant we are compared to the companies total user bases you are all talking about), all you are doing is feeding the anti's more fuel to their fire, showing them what an emotional sad sap bunch of armed hillbillies we all are. "OOOH Look! We got 'em riled up now! Let's keep pushing!"

Meanwhile they DO have the numbers to seriously affect many of US. Because we don't run big companies. We might work at or run small ones, maybe even medium sized ones. But still, if the liberals find out that "the owner of so and so is a big pro-gunner" they could do very *real* harm to us with a local boycott.

We're already seeing 20+ year friendships, churches, children, and every other walk of life affected. We try to up the ante here, irresponsibly flying off in to the sunset like Don Quixote, flailing away at windmills, then they turn the same tactics back on us (which they will), we'll get our butts handed to us in a sling as our small businesses and shops take a pounding; not on Wall Street, but on MAIN street, in each of our own little respective towns.
 
Limiting our approach to just firearms content instead of pointing to the bigger issue of restricting information on legal, if controversial, content as being dangerous to free exchange of ideas may be less effective than the broader approach. Ensuring a safe haven for content isn't difficult, but making it economically advantageous to the posters is where things break down since eyes and clicks mean dollars and cents to them. There are plenty of platforms to host content YT won't, but can it be made beneficial to the hosts and to the content posters is the bigger challenge.
Obviously, but isn't that a bit beyond the scope of the forum, here? ;)

Trent, I'm rapidly coming around to thinking what we are seeing is the start of the kinetic phase of the culture war; the cultural revolution. The antis have positioned their troops carefully, and now they're making their move. I now think we'll be losing ground for a good while since we've been caught so badly unawares, and clearly so do many our fair-weather representatives which is why they sold us out so readily.

That's why fighting, boycotts, marches, and petitions arena waste of time. Right now it is more important to take stock of who our allies are, and seek refuge to plan a response. Hell, our president who vowed the end of the assault our rights before the NRA signed gun control today, and immediately set to banning semi-autos (bump stocks) by fiat, and bristled at having to even seek our comments on the betrayal.
 
if you got every gun owner to boycott Facebook, Google, etc for a YEAR, they wouldn't notice
There's the problem with the "solution". Since a boycott isn't actually a solution and this one has drifted so completely, we're done.
 
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