.357 Magnum for Deer?

GarrettJ said:

I was going to post something to the effect of knowing your drop and at what distance you are shooting.

If you put the bullet in the right place, it will do the job. However, the farther away you are from the critter, the more challenging this becomes. Not to mention, the slower the bullet is traveling.

As noted, inside 100 yds, trajectory isn't too bad. Backing up to 200 yds, I get around 16" drop when sighted at 100. These are 158 gr. bullets that are leaving the muzzle of my 14" Contender pistol at a little over 1600 fps. I was aiming at the red squares, and you can see where they ended up.

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I've got a load in the .357 Maximum that will get 2400 fps from a 140 gr. FTX. One of these days I'll have to see what kind of drop I get at 200 yds with that one.

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My 357 maximum is pretty flat. I have pushed a 180 xtp seated long to 2200 FPS from a 12” barrel. I sight it an inch high at 100 and I believe it takes 8” holdover at 200. Very accurate too. The bullet will not hold together at that velocity though so I back it down to 1900 for deer hunting, but didn’t get a chance to take one with it last year.

Using a .357 instead of more traditional high velocity deer appropriate calibers will get you much more hunting time.......waiting for a good shot.

That has always frustrated me about my state. We are required to use slugs, muzzleloaders, or handguns. I would jump at the chance to use my .357 carbine.

wow three with one shot that's amazing
Just having fun

ArchAngelCD said:

Why a 158gr bullet over a 140gr bullet? Plenty of deer have been taken with 130gr bullet from other rifles. Granted the velocities are near 3000 fps instead of 2000 fps but white tail deer are not all that hard to kill.

The 140gr bullet @ 1987 fps will deliver 1239 ft/lbs of energy.
The 150gr bullet @ 1826 fps will deliver 1110 ft/lbs of energy.
The 170gr bullet @1793 fps will deliver 1213 ft/lbs of energy.
The 180gr bullet @ 1584 fps will deliver 1002 ft/lbs of energy.

Why would a 158gr bullet be necessary?

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When the sabots came out I tried a 140 gr in my 45cal Hawken. Shot a little buck at 25 yards while shooting down from a treestand. The bullet hit to the right of the spine close to the last rib and angled toward the left shoulder. It never exited and left no blood trail. The buck went about a hundred yards. We found it by the road when walking back to the truck. Now I use the heaviest bullet that shoots well when hunting deer with pistol calibers. I have taken 8 or 9 with 180gr XTP's in 357 revolver and probably that many with 300 XTP's in 45 cal Black powder guns. A rifle will get you several hundred feet per second more. As long as you know your limitations and gun, a 357 will work fine.

If I were going to hunt with a 357 mag, revolver or rifle, I'd have no doubts about a 180-200 gr bullet with careful shot placement at limited ranges on any animal in the lower 48. I'd probably be comfortable with most generic 158 gr HP bullets on deer size game.

I choose not to hunt with a 357 because I just like other rounds better. But I know it will do the job.

Bandit67 said:

If that buck of a lifetime shows up you'll wish you had more gun.

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If you're using the right bullet, it's no issue whatsoever.

I took my '92 Rossi .357 deer hunting for the first time last season. I expected a fairly short, broadside shot (at a deer)so I had a home-cast 162 gr. cavernous HP @ 1700+ fps in the chamber, with heavier 168 gr. smaller HP's in the magazine. At dusk I got up to walk back to the house and this walked out 35-40 yds. away.



It was really difficult to see the sights against her black hair, especially looking west, so I hit her further forward than intended, right smack in the shoulder. But after dashing through the mesquites and cactus for 50 yds. or so, she realized she was dead. The little bullets performed surprisingly well and came to rest under the hide on the far side.



I was afoot and only able to carry the straps and one shoulder back to the house.



So, yes I think the .357 will work fine. Just use a heavy bullet.

35W

I have good results with the 180 grain Partitions that Nosler used to make for the 357.No,I wouldn't want to push the range past 100 yards on deer,but out to that,my little 1894CP will flatten a deer.I use H110 powder and magnum primers to get right at 1600 FPS.I would think any well constructed bullet over 158 grains would be good on deer sized game.It makes for a nice compact hunting rifle,and even with 57 year old eyes,the Lyman peep I use makes accurate bullet placement easy at the range this round is good for.I will throw in this-I seldom carry this rifle for buck hunting because there are too many places where I hunt that a shot could easily exceed the range of the 357,and good bucks are hard to come by.For a fun sneak through the woods in search of a meat doe,it's a great outfit.

ArchAngelCD said:

This was meant to be a discussion on the .357 Magnum in a Carbine but as usual many posts ignored that fact. Also what was ignored was the fact I clearly stated in my OP I was not going to actually hunt deer with the .357.

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The question from your OP:

ArchAngelCD said:

So, yes or no and if yes which bullet weight?

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In the context of the titular question, “.357 Magnum for deer?” And the poll question, “should the .357 Magnum shot from a levergun be used on deer?”:

No, it shouldn’t. While it CAN BE, it shouldn’t be.

Considering bullet weights, when it is employed for such, the weight will SOMEWHAT dictate your effective range. The 125’s and 140’s will kill deer, as will the 158’s and 170’s, but the heavier pills do penetrate better. Given the speed of a rifle barrel, the 170’s are a reasonable choice. I’m not a big fan of 170-180+ pills in the .357mag case, but the longer rifle barrel does give them enough speed to be worth the trouble over 140-158’s.

It’s worth noting, in protest, the conversation of shorter barreled Maximum Contenders, or a revolver like my .357/44 B&D Redhawk is surprisingly relevant. These cartridges can meet or even exceed the performance of the .357mag in carbines, such the comparison of on-game performance is apt.

So again, no, it shouldn’t be used. But if a guy did, the heavier pills are better options than the light ones.

I agree fully on the heavier bullets and would steer well away from 125's. What works well on humans out of a revolver is going to come unglued at rifle velocities.

I would have no qualms whatsoever about using a premium bullet like the Swift A-frame (158-180gr) on any deer that walks within 100yds.

Sure. While I'd prefer a .44 out of a lever gun, a .357 could certainly do the job inside 100 yards, perhaps a bit further. I'd opt for a heavy hard cast.

I've got a few boxes of the now discontinued Hornady XTP-FP 158 bullets, which is still a hollow point, but much smaller of a cavity. Per the old Hornady reloading annual catalogues, it's rated up to 1700 FPS or so for expansion. So I've got a box of 50 of them loaded with W296 that chrono'd just under 1600 FPS from Winchester 1873. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot a deer with it yet, but I certainly would consider it out to about 75 yards. At distances beyond that, I'm just not sure I'd make a good shot. For the record, I shot a small buck with a factory 125 grain load years ago at about 20 yards. Never did find him or any blood - bad shot or bad penetration, I'll never know.

Several comments referenced 125's though.

The only 140gr I'd fool with is the Barnes.

Don't know a thing about the Sierra.

I’ve taken deer at short range with .32H&R as well as 9mm, as well as 125grn 357mags - it’s not as scary as it seems, but it’s a very short range game.

158+ for hunting deer past 50yrds, even in a carbine. The levervolution 140 is ok, but it’s not suitable for low impact velocities at longer ranges. The A-Frame is one of my favorite hunting bullets of all time, although I typically haven’t used it in .357mag.

I've been looking at this myself for a while now. I hunt on our farm in WV and .357 is the minimum legal. I see some saying its not enough but keep in mind that a .22 Hornet is the min legal for rifle there and I've shot and killed 3 with a .22 Hornet without issue (was my first youth rifle dad bought me). We're on top of one of the higher mountains so any missed long range shots could potentially go a long way so I;m not going to try and take long shots, I'm going for the closer ones that eat the garden/crops
I bought some Hornady American Ammo and its 125 grain as well as some 125g Hornady XTP bullets so it looks like those are out and I need to look at heavier. So I picked up some 158g XTP at Cableas. I also bought one of those Lee Classic loaders because I always wanted to try one (wish I knew they made .22 Hornet before they discontinued it).
Looking at Hodgdon's site I'm choosing some powders I already have, they list Longshot 7.3-8.4g and Titegroup 5.4-6.1g.
The .7 dipper that came with the lee loader would be 5.9g of Titegroup or 8.5g of Longshot. Though that is .1 over I remember back before I got my turret and was using Lee dippers that they all tended to be a little low, I'd guess because they decided to err on the side of caution to be safe. So I'm thinking of weighing a few with it to see if I dip 8.4 consistent then running with that. According to Hodgdon that 8.4g is 1394ps and the Hornady say 1500max on the box so thats probably the best I can get as that was the fastest powder they listed without going over.
The other option would be ordering some 180g online and see what loads I can find for those.

enine said:

Looking at Hodgdon's site I'm choosing some powders I already have, they list Longshot 7.3-8.4g and Titegroup 5.4-6.1g.
The .7 dipper that came with the lee loader would be 5.9g of Titegroup or 8.5g of Longshot.

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You want really slow burning (for pistol) powders for full-house 357 loads. Alliant 2400 or Hodgdon H110/W296 are very popular in this application. Longshot would be a lot better than Titegroup, but it's not really a 'magnum powder'.

enine said:

According to Hodgdon that 8.4g is 1394ps and the Hornady say 1500max on the box so thats probably the best I can get as that was the fastest powder they listed without going over.
The other option would be ordering some 180g online and see what loads I can find for those.

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That 1394fps is from a 10" test barrel, not a real gun. They list H110 at 1591fps in this application, but in a 4" revolver that speed drops to ~1230fps. The Hornady load is 1500fps (1423fps in my 4" gun) with a 125gr. bullet, making it apples to the 158gr. oranges.

But the 200fps differential listed between Longshot and H110/W296 is probably valid. In a carbine Longshot might develop decent velocity, but I would expect it will always be some 200fps slower than H110, and probably 150fps slower than Alliant 2400. Some go to Alliant 300MP in 357 carbines, which is even slower (burn rate wise) than H110.

I was hoping to stick with some of the powder I already have, bought too much a few years ago, rather than buying something new. I found one outdoor range near me thats open later than 5pm so I'm going to call them and see if they are ok with me bringing my chronometer to test with.
I have a 6.5" barrel so decent length.

enine said:

The .7 dipper that came with the lee loader would be 5.9g of Titegroup or 8.5g of Longshot. Though that is .1 over I remember back before I got my turret and was using Lee dippers that they all tended to be a little low, I'd guess because they decided to err on the side of caution to be safe.

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If you have a *reliable* scale, you can easily make a dipper sized to throw exactly the charge you want. Lots of good ideas for those here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?297242-Homemade-dippers
Dipper technique is important: press base-first, don't scoop. If you're not already familiar with that, better ask for more clarification.

As ArchA says, science is real, and the numbers in loading data can't be compared unless they are actually shot from the same barrel (and preferably a real revolver, which most published data is *not*...cylinder gap do take a bite). Longshot *might* get you a little more velocity than Unique, but not what you'll get with H110 or AA9. Even 2400 will lag behind those a little.

Of course, get out past 50 yards and the difference will be less than at the muzzle. FP and HP bullets are terrible shapes for supersonic aerodynamics, and the faster they start, the faster they lose speed. But still, faster is faster OTOH, dead is dead, and if you have the sort of impudent deer that stand there staring at you from 30 yards, I'll bet an XTP 158 will help them along.

But as they say in auto racing, "to finish first, first you must finish." Or "hit" in this case. Shoot up all those 125s at semi-realistic targets scattered around your property and see if you can RELIABLY land the bullet where it needs to be, then adjust your sights for the 158s. You *do* have adjustable sights, right? If not, I would say don't do it!

The other option would be ordering some 180g online and see what loads I can find for those.

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I've read people claiming 180 grain XTPs don't expand reliably at handgun velocities. Can't attest to that myself, but I'd say research it first!

If you want a bargain on a slightly heavier bullet, the true Keith 173 grain SWC mold 358429 bullet (plain base, long nose, less lead below the crimp groove; not the completely different deep-seating bevel-base SWC imposter that lots of casters call "Keith") can be ordered from Western Bullet at a lower price than anywhere else, that I've seen. Shipping time is erratic: I've waited anywhere from 1 to 12 weeks to see my bullets, so order early (one order last fall took so long I thought he'd dropped dead!) A full dose of slow powder will get those moving real fast, and no worry about expansion. He claims his alloy is BHN 12, which is softer than some "hardcast" alloys. Hard enough? I don't know.

Darn, he used to sell an NOE 180 gr GCHP, IIRC, but it's gone. Must have sold the mold due to lack of demand.

http://westernbullet.com/3535738caliber.html

Sorry for the drift, but this *is* the handloading section, not "Rifles," so I don't feel too guilty

herkyguy said:

I've got a few boxes of the now discontinued Hornady XTP-FP 158 bullets, which is still a hollow point, but much smaller of a cavity.

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Discontinued? They are still listed on Hornady's website.
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/handgun/38-cal-357-158-gr-fp-xtp#!/

Also still listed in-stock at Midway.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/7...meter-158-grain-jacketed-flat-nose-box-of-100

I have 6 each of 125g and 158g XTP with 8./4g longshot and found an outdoor range closer to me than my farm, going to call them tomorrow and see if they will let me chronometer them to see what I can get out of them.

So the setup

The 125grain XTP
(My new phone doesn't seem to want to work with the chronometer so I threw these cards together real quick)

And the 158grain XTP


The 125's averaged 1222 fps, Hodgdon listed 1529.
The 158's averaged 1135 fps, Hodgdon listed 1394.

So I'm a good bit under for both and the 158's were max load so I have no where to go with them.
This is however with a 6.5" barrel and my chronometer was 6-8' in front of the barrel, is says to set it at 10-15' but it worked a little closer most of the time. So I guess the question is how much speed could they drop in that 6-8', that would get my out of the barrel speed.

I looked at Cabelas and they had one lb of H110 but the bottle was severely deformed on two sides so I didn't get it. They didn't have any H4227 but had 1 of Lil'Gun so I grabbed that one. I'll have to make my own dipper but I'll try it next.

I’m a handgun hunter. I like getting deer close enough to smell them before putting a shot on it. 357 from a revolver is plenty out to about 30 yards with good shot placement. I haven’t tried any further, but I bet it’s adequate further than 30. I see huge differences between my guns too, so my 4” 686 was never carried hunting, my 6” I sold but will replace and will use. My 10” Contender does far better than 6” but my 15” buntline does best. An 18” carbine seems about perfect, and should be good to at least 150 with a true magnum. Slow handgun powders are your friend...