Federal 3in Mag Turkey Loads for HD in a Mossberg Shockwave 20 gauge.

Only one way to find out. Test fire some of them, at the distances you expect to use them.

Grim Peeper said:

But are 3 inch turkey mag too much for a Mossberg 20 gauge shockwave for HD under the bed type gun? Is this gun ok for this type of ammo?

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If they are too much then Mossberg needs to recall all Shockwaves.

Having worked at a gun store I’ve found they have employees with all types of experience levels, from zero to almost infinity. I’d stick with buckshot. Then again you should pay no heed to me because I firmly believe PGO shotguns are gimmicks and wouldn’t own one for any reason, much less self defense.

What does this offer over a 2 3/4 buckshot load? Less capacity and less terminal damage.

beeenbag said:

What does this offer over a 2 3/4 buckshot load? Less capacity and less terminal damage.

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Not to mention wrist and ear-shattering recoil.

Remington makes a low recoil #3 20 gauge buckshot load in 2 3/4". It features 17 25 caliber lead pellets moving at about 1140 FPS. This is what I would choose for your application, or any application where I was using 20 gauge for SD. I would confine turkey loads to turkeys or maybe coyotes, using a more "traditional" shotgun.

Grim -before you shoot that hot load your "clerk:" recommended you might want to arrange to have that particular genius be the first one to step up and fire a few of them.... I can't imagine a 3" hot load in a shotgun with only a pistol grip (even a fancy one with a strap to keep at least one of your hands in place after that trigger was pulled...).

I'm a bit opinionated about shotguns for defensive purposes and would never recommend a PGO popper to any friend - under any circumstances... I did get to take down one or two street-life types armed with them years ago - and the look on their faces looking at the business end of a standard riot gun from about 7 to 15 meters away just took all the fun out of that sawed off (and as a direct result no shots fired ever occurred, an ideal result since shooting someone is a very bad outcome -even for the good guy (another of those "ask me how I know" propositions..).

As far as ammo is concerned, you really have to see the results you'll get with ordinary nine pellet 00buck from a standard 2 3/4" round at ranges under 15 meters to believe just how bad the wound is... That plain jane round is an absolute fight ender if used properly and within range.

That was by go-to setup for many years on the street and it never, ever let me down.

Note: I'm talking about 12ga only - I'd have to see the actual results with 20ga and 00buck to be certain....

FL-NC said:

Not to mention wrist and ear-shattering recoil.

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Which is why the birds head grip, and most users recommending lighter loads. The angle of the grip diminishes recoil. Nobody is saying use 3" magnum loads, if anything there is already an adapter for mossberg to load 1 3/4" shells.

BTW, taking a store clerks opinion of what to load and not researching what Mossberg owners are discussing? OP should know better. That's like asking the mainstream media about Trumps visit with Putin.

Look to the history of these in use - witness protection. Close range heavy projectile loads to transfer significantly higher foot pounds of force than almost any reasonable carry pistol. There is lots of leeway in that, same as the XM177, you don't need huge magnum rounds to do that. 5.56 out of a 10.5" barrel is considered sufficient and that configuration was made GI back in 1965. Now we are once again catching up with an old concept firearm and the public is behind the application curve. It's not about magnums from a 14" barrel when you are less than 21 feet from a target.

Let me put it this way - the infamous Miami FBI fight? Would things have gone so badly if the agents had these?

No doubt there were some who disapproved of the Fitz specials back in the 1920's. Which are now revered as "the snubnose." When you carry on you and need firepower, you shorten the barrel but the ranges involved reduce the loss of velocity and you are still in the ball park of over 1,000 foot pounds of force.

If you are standing in your bathrobe in your front yard over your newspaper staring down your neighbor's pit bull, do you want a 12 ga slug or a .22? I can ask that knowing that there are more than a few incidents where 9mm, .40, .45, and even larger calibers failed to stop an attack.

There very much is a proper time and place for a short barreled shotgun for personal protection. Those in denial are really arguing cultural acceptance issues rather than applied ballistics, and would impede your right to keep and bear in order to create social tiers of superiority over what you can own.

Personally I feel more comfortable with a 410 loaded with 3” buckshot loads over a 12 gauge loaded with any kind of birdshot.

I have to agree with everyone, stick with buckshot no matter what gauge you are using.

lemaymiami said:

I'd have to see the actual results with 20ga and 00buck to be certain....

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What 20 ga factory loads feature 00 buck?

Asked and answered.
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=/_/N-9217+4294926941+4294930627+4294929657+4294931260+4294931670?Np=2&Nr=AND%28p_visible%3A1%2Ccustomertypeid%3A1%29&Nrpp=24%2

Whoops, no 00. Nothing wrong with 4, 3, or 2 Buck.

Seems they are made:
http://wolfhillammo.com/shotgun-ammo.aspx

RIO makes a #1 Buck load for 20ga.

I’ve been loading my own For many years. Little difference between it and 9pellet 12ga at close combat distances. Out to 30yds or so, I’ve taken down deer and pigs one shot DRT (Dead, right there!).

#2 would be my second choice, #4 not bad either, but is lacking in barrier penetration if aggressor is behind concealment.
I wouldn’t relish firing a 3”Turkey load, but at under 10yds will be devastating if centered.

I worked a fatal turkey hunting accident a number of years ago involving a juvenile with a 20ga with #4’s. Adult shot at close range. NOT PRETTY!

Tirod said:

There very much is a proper time and place for a short barreled shotgun for personal protection

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I agree with that statement unless it’s a short barreled PGO shotgun.

20GA? Id use some number 3 buck, stay away from mag loads buck or bird. You already have a shotgun that is harder to use than normal (even with a birdshead) use standard 2.75 inch shells and you should be good to go.

Grim Peeper said:

This is the load that the clerk at my LGS recommended. I’m a little disappointed that I can only load 4 instead of 5 rounds in the tube but I have a side saddle that I put on today so that helps. But are 3 inch turkey mag too much for a Mossberg 20 gauge shockwave for HD under the bed type gun? Is this gun ok for this type of ammo? Thanks

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I think you made a very poor choice for a home defense gun, or any other purpose for that matter. I also fully support your right to choose, own and shoot it.

Fine Figure of a Man said:

I think you made a very poor choice for a home defense gun, or any other purpose for that matter. I also fully support your right to choose, own and shoot it.

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I should have stated this too. Though I’d never own a PGO shotgun I also support your right to choose, own and shoot one.

I think a standard 2 3/4 " shells are going to be a handful. 3" mags may make you loose the grip on a small gun like that. No way I'd put 3" shells in a gun like that. jmo

Lets not use a broad brush on the Shockwave and Tac 14. There are pistol grips, and then, there are pistol grips. How many who shoot revolvers work thru a variety of grips from one to another, especially to mitigate recoil? From a Bisley to a more vertical web reinforcing design, from a full grip to a T to a boot grip which virtually eliminates putting your fingers behind the trigger guard.

A "pistol grip" can be anything from a near vertical AR15 style to the much longer wrist of a traditional shotgun stock - which is what the Shockwave and Tac 14 are using. It's far from vertical, and therefore, will not transmit the recoil in the same way.

If it makes a difference for your revolver then consider that it can make a difference in this design. While the grip was intended to meet legal definitions of length, most reviews of them point out specifically that there was much less perception of recoil with a Shockwave/Tac 14 than a traditional vertical AR15 type grip these guns previously sported.

Bluntly, the angle of the dangle DOES make a difference.

Anyway, the concern is how much recoil, and obviously a 3" Magnum will produce a lot more. But - do you really NEED that much more power. This weapon isn't meant to fire loads taking down geese a 60 yards or more. Therefore those familiar with that need to check their perceptions - this gun (and note legally its NOT a "shotgun" under the definitions) will be used much closer. I mentioned 21 feet for a reason - 7 yards - IE Tuller drill distances. Again, it's not a goose gun - it's a close defense personal weapon. So a load that won't travel long distances won't lose a lot of foot pounds either. You can start out with a lighter load yet deliver more power than the goose gun does further down range.

It also goes to what that target is. A flock of geese requires a much different load than a 180 pound two or four legged mammal.

Therefore, what is considered an FBI load would be a 2 3/4 in #1, Federal with buffered shot. If distances will be out to 80 plus yards, slugs will reach and the Brenneke type seem to lead in accuracy. What might seem to be attractive, especially with some of the more notorious offerings these days, isn't a good producer of wound channel after all. Such as 00 buck which combined is almost half the cross sectional area compared to #1.

When researching the 870 some years back on the same subject, the general consensus then by LEO/MIL was use #4 especially if indoors. It's not capable of consistent 12' penetration, it seems, so the bar was moved up to #1. 7 vs 16 pellets also has it's affect.

Let's not forget the purpose of a shot firing smoothbore with an overall length the same as an AR pistol - and to demonstrate that, take your hunting shotgun, hold it horizontally and run down the bedroom hall with it. Nope - doesn't fit, neither will the deer rifle, and that's the point. Especially when the Army was trying to figure out what a close combat weapon would need to do, and why it arrived at the XM177. A 10.5" short barreled full auto 5.56 made by Colt. It has survived in the inventory and is now typed for ship boarding operations by the Navy and also still in use by the Army for clearing buildings and tunnel work.

I don't see much difference there should you choose the new era Shockwave or Tac 14. Nope, it's not a "pistol grip shotgun" - because it's not a shotgun and it's not really a pistol grip. That grip is much more horizontal than vertical, and nope, we don't need to put max 3" magnum loads in it. They aren't going far.

I read your post. My feelings still haven’t changed about PGO shotguns. I don’t care what length shell and size shot is run through one. I’ll always use a shoulder mounted shotgun.

Tirod said:

I don't see much difference there should you choose the new era Shockwave or Tac 14. Nope, it's not a "pistol grip shotgun" - because it's not a shotgun and it's not really a pistol grip.

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It’s a shotgun to me.

Tirod said:

Such as 00 buck which combined is almost half the cross sectional area compared to #1.

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Does not compute. The diameter of #1 buck is .30, 00 Buck is .33 I'm not sure what 'cross sectional area' is, but unless it is some kind of inverse ratio to diameter, I don't see how this is possible.

https://www.hunter-ed.com/images/pdfs/ammo_shot_sizes.pdf

Tirod said:

Especially when the Army was trying to figure out what a close combat weapon would need to do, and why it arrived at the XM177. A 10.5" short barreled full auto 5.56 made by Colt. It has survived in the inventory and is now typed for ship boarding operations by the Navy and also still in use by the Army for clearing buildings and tunnel work.

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I can't speak for the Navy, but the XM177E2 was withdrawn from Army service prior to 1986, and the M4 wasn't adopted until 1994. There is an M4 Commando version made with a 11.5" barrel used by Force Recon Marines, and Green Beanies, and the Mk18 Mod 0, same gun with a 10.5" barrel, used by the SEALs. Neither of these weapons is the XM177. (or E1 or E2 versions, for that matter.)

If the Army had had XM177E2s still in use in 1986, I wouldn't have had to build our LRSD 10.5" CAR's with commercial uppers and figure out how to gas them right to function reliably. I could have just ordered the whole weapon, or parts to convert their M16A2's.

While I was in ('86-'89) the Army had a BCT (Building Clearing Team) assigned to each division, they were issued HK MP5SD's, as were Force Recon Marine door kickers.

Everything else you said was spot on.