First Progressive Press Input

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frogfurr said:
Auto index, regardless of who makes the press, is not a reducer of squib loads.
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I disagree.

With a powder check installed in the 3rd station on a 650 it’s a very remote chance you’ll have a squib and not know it
 
I sold the Dillon powder drop and bought 2 Lee auto drum drops. Don't regret it in the slightest. Makes changing calibers easier too.

You can buy 3rd party toolhead off eBay for a lot cheaper than Dillon heads are.
 
When I restarted loading and went with a progressive I went a completely different way. When I started my search I knew nothing of these presses so I did research. Read forums like this, asked questions and watched videos on all of them.
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When I bought my first progressive Internet reloading forums didn’t exist. Just bought the best we could afford. Over the last 30+ years I have made it a point to own all that I can. All the Dillon’s, a couple different versions of the LNL, RCBS and Lee progressives too.

I can find something I like about all of them.
 
I'm a big Dillon fan and use a 650 for my high-volume stuff. There's no doubt the 550 is a high-quality and reliable piece of equipment. However: I am an RO in USPSA. I have run thousands and thousands of shooters through various stages/courses of fire. A fairly high percentage of USPSA shooters are reloaders (simply because their volume of shooting requires it and/or their race guns require ammo that isn't really available off the shelf). I have certainly seen a number of squibs, and a smaller number of double-charges. Almost all the people who I have seen have what I would consider to be systemic ammo problems are using a 550. The manual indexing is fine as long as you do it. Some people do not do it 100% of the time. They do it 99% of the time, or 99.9% of the time. With a 550, quality of input is directly related to quality of output. You have to pay attention and be smart with any reloading process, but that is especially the case with 550's from what I have seen.
 
Everyone seems to think that the case feeders come with the Hornady LNL's and Dillon 650's in the price when they compare them to a 550. They don't.
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The Dillon 650 does come with the tube and all of the mechanical means to take a case from that tube and put it into the shell plate setup from the factory on the base machine. What they sell as the optional “casefeed” is just a collator. All the owner has to do is drop it on the post, snap in the tube, plug it in and turn it on. The LNL optional case feed is a collator and all of the parts to get it from the collator to the shell plate.

This is why the 650 costs more than the LNL but why the LNL case feed costs more than the Dillon. Also one reason why the 650’s case feed has a better reputation, as the LNL’s works as well as the person set it up.

I too avoided the 550 because of the manual index and owned several of all the others before getting one just to have an informed opnion. It’s really not that big of a deal as your hands are already there putting bullets on and adding cases.

If you don’t have any place to set a bullet or add a case, you need to index the shell plate, that’s all you need to do to avoid a double. The only press that prevents a short stroke squib is the 1050, powder checks will detect them though and I use them when it can.

If you can’t pay attention to what you are doing, you are going to have problems no matter what machine you use.
 
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jmorris said:
I too avoided the 550 because of the manual index and owned several of all the others before getting one just to have an informed opnion. It’s really not that big of a deal as your hands are already there putting bullets on and adding cases.

If you don’t have any place to set a bullet or add a case, you need to index the shell plate, that’s all you need to do to avoid a double. The only press that prevents a short stroke squib is the 1050, powder checks will detect them though and I use them when it can.

If you can’t pay attention to what you are doing, you are going to have problems no matter what machine you use.
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I certainly agree with the last part, and the other comments seem very reasonable to me, too. I'm only passing along my observation that the huge majority of squibs/doubles I have seen come from guys running 550's. Maybe that's because it's a common "entry level" progressive, and lots of people in high-volume handgun shooting sports go right to that press out of the gate with no prior reloading experience at all.

As someone with no LNL experience, I also enjoyed your description of the difference in the case feeding. Great post, man.
 
I in no way intended to cause or start a debate on the attributes of the different brands of presses I just wanted to relay what I use, how I came about making the decision for it and the reasons for those decisions. Not trying to state that one press is superior to the other as some would suggest or advocate for one over the other because that is what I have, or persuade others that this is the only way to go. If I wanted a Dillon I would own a Dillon!

Each of us have different needs, wants, desires, ways of doing things and expectations. I'm not asking anyone to be me or do as I do but every time this subject comes up there are people that seem to think I should be like them and use what they use! I am old enough to make informed decisions and pay for and buy what I want. If my decision doesn't suite you well, too bad!
 
Maybe that's because it's a common "entry level" progressive..
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I think that’s also why Lee has the reputation it does. They can be made to work (I’ve loaded 100 rounds on one in under 4 min) but I am glad that by the time I got around to trying one out I already knew what I was doing.
 
Not to pile on too much but I enthusiastically endorse Dillon. I bought a 650 shortly after I began reloading on a single stage and couldn't be happier that I did. Amazing machine and been flawless (...wish I could say the same for myself...) since the day I set it up. Personally I like the margin of "safety" a 650/auto indexing press + powder check provides, but also think that the best safety device is an engaged, attentive, informed person running the machine
 
"If you can’t pay attention to what you are doing, you are going to have problems no matter what machine you use." THIS says it all.
My first press was an RCBS RockChucker..Next press Dillon RL550..
Still load on both of them and NEED nothing more..Bill.
 
jmorris said:
The Dillon 650 does come with the tube and all of the mechanical means to take a case from that tube and put it into the shell plate setup from the factory on the base machine. What they sell as the optional “casefeed” is just a collator. All the owner has to do is drop it on the post, snap in the tube, plug it in and turn it on. The LNL optional case feed is a collator and all of the parts to get it from the collator to the shell plate.
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I like that you called the Dillon case feed a collator. I Actuall fabricated a post that will hold the Lee case collator off the loadmaster over the Dillon 650 case feed. Works pretty well and cost me almost nothing since for some reason I had a spare collator from my loadmaster days. I posted a picture of it one time around here somewhere......
 
jmorris said:
If you can’t pay attention to what you are doing, you are going to have problems no matter what machine you use.
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Once again, jmorris has hit the nail on the head. Once the load workup is complete, reloading becomes a rote mechanical process. Once I got into the rhythm of loading a particular round, I found that my mind would occasionally wander and I worried about making a mistake. I started reloading rifle rounds on a single stage press. After an aborted range trip caused by a squib load, I changed my procedure- I only charge one case at a time and seat the bullet before charging the next to make sure that every round receives a charge. I'm still not sure how I got that squib load, but I haven't had one since.

When I decided to reload pistol rounds, I spent some time researching progressive presses to speed up the process. I found some references to powder check dies and decided that I needed a press with five stations to accommodate the extra die. I narrowed the search to the Hornady LnL and the Dillon 650. At the time, I had two kids getting ready to go to college and my reloading budget was tight, so I bought the Hornady because caliber conversion is cheaper (I load a lot of different pistol rounds). If my budget had been bigger, I probably would have bought the Dillon, but the Hornady has worked well for me. I'm used to it now, so I have no desire or need to replace it. So far, I have loaded just over 13,000 rounds on the LnL (I know, that's not much compared to some of the guys on this forum) without a single squib round. The powder check die has only caught a couple bad charges, but the peace of mind it gives me is well worth the time it takes to set it up for a particular case.

I know a lot of guys load a lot more rounds than me without a powder check die and have no problems with squibs. I envy their focus and concentration, but I have to live with my limitations. Fortunately, there are a lot of good presses out there, and it isn't difficult to find one that suits the differing needs and budgets of reloaders.
 
Two things I do while operating my 550. 1) I always stand while loading, so I can see down into the case before I place a bullet to seat. Some people use cameras or mirrors, but standing allows me to easily move my eyeball around to inspect other things if necessary. 2) If for any reason I have to pause what I am doing, I leave the press at the top of the stroke.

There are two possible states for the ram at the bottom of the stroke: before indexing, or after indexing. There is only one possible state for the press at the top of a stroke. Less confusion.
 
The powder check die has only caught a couple bad charges, but the peace of mind it gives me is well worth the time it takes to set it up for a particular case.
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I set mine up so they can detect the tiny difference in internal volume of the stepped cases as well.

 
Toprudder said:
Two things I do while operating my 550. 1) I always stand while loading, so I can see down into the case before I place a bullet to seat. Some people use cameras or mirrors, but standing allows me to easily move my eyeball around to inspect other things if necessary. 2) If for any reason I have to pause what I am doing, I leave the press at the top of the stroke.

There are two possible states for the ram at the bottom of the stroke: before indexing, or after indexing. There is only one possible state for the press at the top of a stroke. Less confusion.
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Good thinking, good habit.

Opinion: for those who reload to save money and are low volume shooters using single stage turret presses sitting is prolly attractive but in my experience trying everything and with loading 1000s per month, standing is the way to go. That and having a rock solid press mount. I say this as someone with lower back and ankle issues. I personally use a powder check die and still look into every case before setting the bullet on. Not that I'm the measure of all things. I don't obsess over seating depth tolerances like some do but it seems to me that I get better consistency while standing, I believe it has to do with a consistent lever pull that I speculate comes from standing. When I have a press stoppage I pull everything off the shell plate and start over.
 
thomas15, once again it's a matter of different strokes! I have severe and chronic P.A.D. in both legs which have also had numerous surgeries. I cannot stand for long periods of time, especially standing in one spot. I have a bench that was built specifically for me so I can sit in a computer type chair and still see clearly into each case and easily reach everything on my bench

So once again what works very well for you does not work so well for me. Bottom line we are all different and we still need to find what works best for us individually. Just as some can't seem to find a way to prime on their presses because they find they don't get the results they want while other have no problem doing it. Neither way is right or wrong, they are just different.
 
I would call that a turret press, as does Lyman, but I have no doubt you are correct and it is a fine press.
 
Dillon presses are good, and I have a 550B that I use for reloading. Make sure that you have a good light, patience, no distractions, and a bullet puller for when you're in doubt! It works well for my pistol loads. In addition, I have a Forster co-axial single stage press that I use for depriming and resizing rifle loads.

The Forster is used along with my Dillon or for when I just want to load a few rounds of special calibers. I have a number of rifle dies with lock rings on them that are set up and ready to go anytime that I want to slide them in the press. I like just being able to slide them in quickly with no need for adjustment since lock rings are on each one, and the shell holder slides to adjust to the case size. It's quick. After resizing, trimming, cleaning rifle brass and priming, I then use the Dillon to drop powder, seat bullets, and crimp.
 
Glad a decision was made to buy the Dillon 550.
Everyone has different views on which press(es) to buy and use
Have Old Rock Chuckers still work great and loaded a many of rounds
set them up for my version of progressive each press did a different
function, progressives were out of the average reloaders means back
then. Then to Hornady Pro 7's, Projectors, have I think 6 of them, they
still work great, each it's own caliber, then of course Hornady LNL-AP
and a Dillon. They all work, some need more attention than others,
people have problems with brand X but not brand Y, or brand Z works
great.
The questions are which do I want, or which do I need, how much
shooting do I do, which rounds on the progressive(s), do I need
multiple presses to save on loading different rounds or to save
time on converting them over. I let people "pull" the handle on
different presses, do a caliber conversion / setup, and let them
pick which one they want or need. Seems to work rather well.
But hey I'd love to have a Camdex, Ammobot, Mark V but do
I "need" one and that would be a no. Reloading to me is not
a marathon or to set a record, but everyones needs are different
and YMMV....just a thought...and then winter time comes, bad
weather and then reloading sessions start.....

-Snoopz
 
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