Buying an AR in Florida as a NY resident

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FLgunfan

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Hello all,
I have what I hope is a quick and easy question for some of the experts here.
I am legally a NY resident, and don't want to change that for the next year or so, for various reasons. However, I reside in Florida for a majority of the year, am I able to purchase an AR-15 in Florida, even though my drivers license is from NY state? If so, how would I go about doing that? I have no intention of bringing the rifle back to NY.

Any help is appreciated, thank you!
 
To be more specific, I found a fantastic deal on a Ruger AR online and would like to ship it to a FFL in Florida and keep it at my FL residence.
 
1) Please check out the provisions of 27 CFR 478.11 (State of Residence) to determine how it applies to your situation, then,

2) Review the applicable Florida statutes (I'm unfamiliar with Florida law) to determine in you may lawfully purchase the firearm in Florida, then,

3) You'll have your answer.
 
I snow bird in Florida and was told by a local dealer that you must posses a Florida license to purchase a firearm. I have a Florida concealed weapons permit and still can not purchase a firearm.
 
FLgunfan said:
... I am legally a NY resident, and don't want to change that for the next year or so, for various reasons. However, I reside in Florida for a majority of the year, am I able to purchase an AR-15 in Florida, even though my drivers license is from NY state?
Click to expand...

Your challenge is providing identification to a Florida FFL that you are a Florida resident who can legally buy the AR.

ATF Form 4473 requires FFLs to obtain identification from buyers. The form's instructions for Question 18.b. Supplemental Identification address your question (emphasis added).
Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the law. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of transferee/buyer may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee's/buyer's residence address. This supplemental documentation should be recorded in question 18.b., with the issuing authority and type of identification presented. For example, if the transferee/buyer has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver's license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address. A valid electronic document from a government website may be used as supplemental documentation provided it contains the transferee's/buyer's name and current residence address.
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Talk to a dealer to confirm that he will transfer a New York Safe Act legal AR. If it's legal in both states it can be transferred although some dealers will and some won't do the transfer.

Best to find out before ordering one.
 
As a foundation, here is the basic federal law[ on interstate transfers.

  • Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  • In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  • In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  • There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  • The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  • Here's what the statutes say:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph


    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to


    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph


    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ...
    Click to expand...

  • Violation of these federal laws is punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine. It also results in a lifetime loss of gun rights.
 
Since you spend more time here in FL, why not get the FL DL? It would make life a lot easier in this regard
 
George P said:
Since you spend more time here in FL, why not get the FL DL? ....
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I'm just guessing here, but he might own handguns in New York and have a New York handgun license. If so, he can only retain that if he is considered a New York resident.

If that's the case, (1) depending on New York law it might be an open question as to whether he is a bona fide New York resident in his current situation; and (2) he doesn't want to be discussing this in public with a bunch of strangers in front of everyone in the world with Internet access.
 
The issue is not whether the OP can purchase the AR in Florida as a NY resident, but rather whether he can purchase it in Florida as a part-year Florida resident. The answer to that is yes, provided he can establish his Florida residency to the satisfaction of the FFL. According to the Form 4473 instructions, cited above, his identity can be proven by his NY driver's license, while his Florida residency can be proven by a supplementary document, such as a Florida tax bill. Obviously it would be simpler to obtain a Florida driver's license.
 
????? Confused ?????

I am confused (which seems to be happening more and more often).

I thought that under Federal Law I can buy and take delivery of a long gun when out-of-state. For example if on a hunting trip I can buy a rifle. If memory serves correctly years ago I could buy a long gun in a State who shares the same border as my home State. (For Kansas it was Oklahoma, Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri). I thought the law was changed to allow me to do that now in any State.

Was I asleep at the wheel when the law changed? Or is it just a wonderful fantasy dream?
 
BSA1 said:
????? Confused ?????

I am confused (which seems to be happening more and more often).

I thought that under Federal Law I can buy and take delivery of a long gun when out-of-state. For example if on a hunting trip I can buy a rifle. If memory serves correctly years ago I could buy a long gun in a State who shares the same border as my home State. (For Kansas it was Oklahoma, Colorado, Nebraska and Missouri). I thought the law was changed to allow me to do that now in any State.

Was I asleep at the wheel when the law changed? Or is it just a wonderful fantasy dream?
Click to expand...

You weren't asleep.

Simple answer. If you are a resident of state 'A' and wish to buy a long gun while visiting state 'B', you can make the purchase as long as the long gun is legal to buy/own in both states. It's up to the selling dealer in state 'B' to comply with the laws of both state 'A' and state 'B'. That just means that if the long gun is not legal in state 'A' the dealer in state 'B' can't legally sell it to you.
 
Frank Ettin said:
I'm just guessing here, but he might own handguns in New York and have a New York handgun license. If so, he can only retain that if he is considered a New York resident.

If that's the case, (1) depending on New York law it might be an open question as to whether he is a bona fide New York resident in his current situation; and (2) he doesn't want to be discussing this in public with a bunch of strangers in front of everyone in the world with Internet access.
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But he can also get a FL non-resident CCW if he wants, but since he said he spends more time in FL than NY, I would think he would want to switch, if for nothing else than to avoid paying NY income taxes
 
Hunter86004 said:
Simple answer. If you are a resident of state 'A' and wish to buy a long gun while visiting state 'B', you can make the purchase as long as the long gun is legal to buy/own in both states.
Click to expand...

The part in red is the problem for the OP. If he's buying as a NY resident, the AR would have to comply with the NY SAFE Act. Most, if not all, Florida dealers would not want to delve into the legalities of owning an AR in NY. His only practical avenue is to buy as a part-year Florida resident.
 
Buying an AR 'style' rifle that's New York legal is no problem. For instance, Ruger makes one.

Ruger AR-556 5.56mm/223 Rem NEW YORK STATE SAFE ACT LEGAL rifle features 6 position stock, flash hider, flip rear sight, extended rear take down pin, and a fixed 10 round magazine. This system has been approved by New York State. It is New York State legal because it has a fixed 10 round magazine and is a top loader. New York does not consider this rifle an assault weapon and therefor is transferable and does not need to be registered.
 
You can buy a manually-operated AR rifle in England too, but it just isn't the same. I suspect that if the OP wanted a SAFE Act compliant AR, he could just buy it in NY. He's looking for a legal way to get a "real" one in Florida.
 
FLgunfan said:
I am legally a NY resident, and don't want to change that for the next year or so, for various reasons. However, I reside in Florida for a majority of the year,
Click to expand...
There are many different definitions of residency. For the purpose of buying a firearm under federal law, you're not legally a NY resident when you're living in FL. In fact, if you were to put your NY address on Form 4473 during the part of the year while you were living in FL, that would be a felony because you'd be lying on the form. This is from the instructions on the 4473:

"If the transferee/buyer has two States of residence, the transferee/buyer should list his/her current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if the transferee/buyer is purchasing a firearm while staying at his/her weekend home in State X, he/she should list the address in State X in response to question 2)."

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

Here's ATF Ruling 2010-6, which discusses residency in more detail. Basically it breaks down to this: Where are you actually living right now?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2010-6-state-residence
 
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I experienced the same issue several years ago when I was primarily a Texas resident but owned a second home in New Mexico. For federal transfer purposes, you are a resident of a state when you are residing there. There is no minimum time required. That doesn't mean you are passing through but actually making a residence/home there. I needed to prove that I was a resident of New Mexico while living there, and I obtained a New Mexico ID card and that, combined with a property deed and utility bill, satisfied several dealers and I was able to purchase any firearm I desired. I would bet the same would apply to the OP as well. I see no reason why his New York status would have any bearing on what he could purchase as a resident of Florida.
 
George P said:
But he can also get a FL non-resident CCW if he wants, but since he said he spends more time in FL than NY, I would think he would want to switch, if for nothing else than to avoid paying NY income taxes
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The problem is that there is no such thing as a NY non-resident CCW. As a NY resident, he can have a NY CCW and a Florida non-resident CCW, but as a Florida resident there is no legal way for him to carry in NY.*

*The only way for a non-resident to possess a handgun in NY is if you own a business in New York. Then you can get a premises-only permit to keep a handgun at your place of business, but you can't carry it anywhere outside of there.​
 
OP, could you not buy a stripped lower in NY? That would probably be just a firearm there since it would not have any evil features, or even a barrel.

Then you bring the lower to FL, which is totally legal. Once your legally owned firearm is in FL you can build it into any configuration you want as long as you comply with NFA laws.
 
AlexanderA said:
The issue is not whether the OP can purchase the AR in Florida as a NY resident, but rather whether he can purchase it in Florida as a part-year Florida resident. The answer to that is yes, provided he can establish his Florida residency to the satisfaction of the FFL. According to the Form 4473 instructions, cited above, his identity can be proven by his NY driver's license, while his Florida residency can be proven by a supplementary document, such as a Florida tax bill. Obviously it would be simpler to obtain a Florida driver's license.
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This.

OP is legitimately a resident of both states. If he can provide documentation to the FL FFL to satisfy the proof of residency requirements, there's no problem. Just can't take the non-compliant rifle to NY.
 
toivo said:
The problem is that there is no such thing as a NY non-resident CCW. As a NY resident, he can have a NY CCW and a Florida non-resident CCW, but as a Florida resident there is no legal way for him to carry in NY.
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This is where it gets confusing. The definition of "resident" varies, according to the context. For ATF purposes, a "resident" is a person who is physically present in a state, with the intent of making it his home. This can be proven by various forms of government documentation, such as a real estate tax bill. There is no minimum period of physical presence required. You could live in Florida for a month, and as long as you own property there or have other community connections, you could buy a gun as a Florida resident. This does not imply that you give up NY residency for the part of the year you are actually in NY. For other purposes, such as state income tax, the requirements for residency are a bit stricter. Typically you have to be out of the state for at least 180 days of the year in order to get out of paying state income tax. I know people, for example, who live in Maryland but have second homes in Florida. They have to be careful to spend 180 days in Florida (and be able to document it) so as to not pay income tax to Maryland (Florida has no state income tax). These same people could buy a gun in either Maryland or Florida when they are physically present there. The point being that you could be a "dual resident" for ATF purposes but not for other purposes.
 
What @AlexanderA is pointing out is a "flaw" in the law as written. Back in 1968, when it was written, very few people (by and large) had multiple residences. In fact, few people ever went very far from where they were born. So, the concept of residency as a fluid thing was not really necessary at the time.

In our modern times, that's very different, and a law crafted today would probably go into considerable detail about residnecy, duration and the like.

For that matter, modern law would also address itenerancy, persons not having a fixed address. Not doing so would be discriminatory, and would not pass constitutional muster.

Ok. in a sensible world, we'd hae our "rights organizations" press to have the law amended or changed "for cause" based on this alone. Sadly, the modern reality is that if we let the antis get a chance to change the law, it would not be to our benefit.
 
CapnMac said:
For that matter, modern law would also address itinerancy, persons not having a fixed address. Not doing so would be discriminatory, and would not pass constitutional muster.
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The way things stand now, you have to have a fixed address in a state, in order to buy a gun. This problem crops up in the case of American expatriates living overseas. When they come back to the States for a visit, they find they can't buy a gun. Is this unconstitutional discrimination? Probably not. Same thing for someone wandering about the country, living in an RV.

This is the exact opposite of the problem of having multiple fixed addresses.

Maybe in an ideal world, we should just decouple gun purchasing from having a fixed address. It's not clear that people roaming from place to place are less "worthy" to have a gun. As a matter of fact they may legitimately need one more than someone with established roots in a community.

The downside is that, at least as far as purchases are concerned, this would make state law moot and unenforceable.
 
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