...Target, Backstop, and Beyond...FAILURE = Death

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i never cease to be amazed at the photos of private shooting ranges. Firing range safety and firing range design are some things that i do. i've also testified as an expert witness at trials.

Few people own the real estate to maximum range of the firearm: Therefore a firing range must have a proper backstop or berm: Trees will not get it done. Hills located on another persons property won't get it. Small hills do not provide adequate backstops. The reason; close in ricochets send bullets over the hill. Every round that leaves your property has your name on it.

For decades the Fort Sill Medicine Bluff private weapons range operated safely. While holding a deer drawing in the crowded parking lot of the Sportsman's Center, a heavy muzzleloader rifle bullet hit a pickup. The shooter had a close in ricochet that sent the bullet over the intervening 200 foot tall hill. End of firing range.

About ten years a boy playing ball in the Bray, OK schoolyard was struck in the buttocks with a .30 caliber bullet. The boy was lucky, the bullet could have struck his spine or chest. The bullet was fired from a two groove Springfield rifle barrel. The shooter was never found.
 
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I do not see this as anything but "Manslaughter". Accident? People use that word so frequently and recklessly. Just like cell phones. Using one can kill and they do. Text messaging kills innocent people every day and they call it a accident. No, it is negligent Homicide. Yes, the family may be forgiving now. But that will most likely change after the initial grieving. The Police should arrest the shooter. It was NO accident, it was a clear case of reckless endangerment of life which did in fact case a homicide.
 
Very sad. Both families will suffer for the rest of their lives, one wrought with grief, the other with guilt.

I do not see this as anything but "Manslaughter". Accident? People use that word so frequently and recklessly. Just like cell phones. Using one can kill and they do. Text messaging kills innocent people every day and they call it a accident. No, it is negligent Homicide. Yes, the family may be forgiving now. But that will most likely change after the initial grieving. The Police should arrest the shooter. It was NO accident, it was a clear case of reckless endangerment of life which did in fact case a homicide.

Manslaughter is a deliberate act of violence resulting in homicide but without premeditation & malice that would make the homicide a murder.

Involuntary/criminally negligent manslaughter, perhaps.
 
Probably why in many areas of my state, only shotguns can be used for Squirrels. Also, I wonder what the LAW was in the Shooters area. How far from a road, back stop etc. So were they actually breaking a law and the result a Death? The Police could or may come back with a charge. Negligent manslaughter? By the way, there are not many areas in the Southern part of Virginia where I live that you can use a rifle. For Deer, shotgun, some cases slugs.
 
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Back stops and what's behind your target should always be top priority whether just target shooting, hunting, or self defense. It's very basic. I think about it all the time. Even running through scenarios of someone breaking in the house, knowing what angles are safe to shoot the BG at so if a miss or pass through happens, nothing enters kids rooms.
 
I didn't read all of the responses, I will just say this, you are responsible for every bullet that leaves whatever you're shooting.

That goes for a big public range with big safe berms or lawfully at home with minimal property and a minimal backstop, or for that matter a public indoor range.

Accidents happen but that doesn't negate responsibility. As long as one is legal I don't look down on anyone's personal private shooting unless it's outright careless. But even that can be subjective.

This coming from someone who legally shoots at home but in a minimalist fashion currently.
 
I do not see this as anything but "Manslaughter". Accident? People use that word so frequently and recklessly. Just like cell phones. Using one can kill and they do. Text messaging kills innocent people every day and they call it a accident. No, it is negligent Homicide. Yes, the family may be forgiving now. But that will most likely change after the initial grieving. The Police should arrest the shooter. It was NO accident, it was a clear case of reckless endangerment of life which did in fact case a homicide.

I don't disagree with you, but I think the problem here is with the term "accident." People like to use the term interchangeably to mean "unintentional" or as an "unforeseen negative result" and often imply a lack of responsibility. After all, how can you be responsible for an unforeseen negative event? At least that is how some people like to view such situations, sort of like when people want to call negligent discharges "accidental" discharges because there was no intent to discharge the gun. It makes everyone feel better to call it an "accident" even though the reality is that there are no or very few actual accidents that aren't tied to some sort of human failing, right?
 
I don't disagree with you, but I think the problem here is with the term "accident." People like to use the term interchangeably to mean "unintentional" or as an "unforeseen negative result" and often imply a lack of responsibility. After all, how can you be responsible for an unforeseen negative event? At least that is how some people like to view such situations, sort of like when people want to call negligent discharges "accidental" discharges because there was no intent to discharge the gun. It makes everyone feel better to call it an "accident" even though the reality is that there are no or very few actual accidents that aren't tied to some sort of human failing, right?

About 20 years ago, I rear ended a gun. He had come to a stop for no reason at all and had no break lights. The Judge did not fine me, but sent me to "Dummy School". Yes about a week of school for driving safety. I will never for the Instructor. He said a comment that has stuck with me forever. "THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A ACCIDENT". Yes, the other guy was wrong. But I WAS WRONG AS WELL. I should not have been following so closely. I should have been more alert. I could have prevented that crash.
That class has paid for itself. And I thank that Judge that sent me to that school.
 
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Law enforcement in my county uses the county range as do a lot of citizens. The backstop is rock and gravel, and ricochets frequently travel outside the intended impact area and into an area at least a half-mile radius where there are popular mountain-bike and dirt-motorcycle trails. I know because I've had them fly right over me at least three or four times when I was back there. I won't go back there now unless the range is closed (after dark).

Point being that your backstop must actually work as you intend or it's worthless and you will still be responsible for your actions in spite of your intentions.
 
Let's all agree that the motorist in this story should not be criticised.
It isn't the motorist's actions that are to be scrutinised, it is the actions of the shooters.
These incidents make the shooting community look bad and we should be doing all we can to prevent them.
This type of event is what will eventually kill our hobby! Idiots that dont even recognize the very basics of firearm safety! They should never be allowed to handle a firearm!
 
Even with a big backstop, with hundreds of yards of mature timber behind it.........my old club.............saw folks fire their guns at 45 degree angle.
Usually some dipstick w a revolver.
Never understood the cock the gun while pointing it almost straight up, then bringing it down to target.
Go to an indoor range and look above the firing line and out a couple feet LOL
These people vote, and breed.
Sleep tight my friends.
 
Have had bullets fly by me.........people shooting w no backstop (targets or at animals skylined).
My squirrel spot was sold, so now I have a much closer/smaller place w houses around.
CBs and only in certain directions.
Can use LR if sitting in deer stands shooting down.
 
Just a reminder on how important groups like the NRA are. In their past they were able to freely promote gun safety everywhere;they were a loud voice able to push the word out on safe gun handling. We owe a lot to them for that.
 
Very sad. Both families will suffer for the rest of their lives, one wrought with grief, the other with guilt.



Manslaughter is a deliberate act of violence resulting in homicide but without premeditation & malice that would make the homicide a murder.

Involuntary/criminally negligent manslaughter, perhaps.

Yes. Manslaughter is, for instance, two people fighting at a bar and one kills the other. Violent confrontation
This is not a case like that. I guarantee the shooter will never recover from this. Same as the family of the deceased. Sad all the way around
 
The "backstop" for my range is a ridge that rises 115 feet from the level of the nearby lake. It is highly unlikely that I would mis-aim my shot so badly that it would surmount a 115 foot backstop.
 
Probably why in many areas of my state, only shotguns can be used for Squirrels. Also, I wonder what the LAW was in the Shooters area. How far from a road, back stop etc. So were they actually breaking a law and the result a Death? The Police could or may come back with a charge. Negligent manslaughter? By the way, there are not many areas in the Southern part of Virginia where I live that you can use a rifle. For Deer, shotgun, some cases slugs.

I've never thought launching a .22 caliber bullet skyward was a safe thing to do yet squirrel hunters do it constantly. I never want to pull the trigger and wonder if I may accidentally hurt someone.
 
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What gets me is that accidental/negligent shooting deaths are statistically far less significant but will get a lot more press than those caused by idiots texting or otherwise screwing with their phones.


"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A ACCIDENT".
Sure there are, they happen all the time. It's just that not everything labeled an accident really is one.
 
What gets me is that accidental/negligent shooting deaths are statistically far less significant but will get a lot more press than those caused by idiots texting or otherwise screwing with their phones.

Statistics are great, but completely overlook the legal, social, and emotional significance of the event in the lives of those involved. It does not matter and isn't really relevant that there are other negative events that happen more frequently.

To borrow your tags, "Wise men learn by others' harms; fools by their own." - Benjamin Franklin, right?
 
Statistics are great, but completely overlook the legal, social, and emotional significance of the event in the lives of those involved. It does not matter and isn't really relevant that there are other negative events that happen more frequently.

To borrow your tags, "Wise men learn by others' harms; fools by their own." - Benjamin Franklin, right?
That's well and good for those directly involved. For the rest of us, it's about statistics and measures to prevent it from happening again. We can't help those that are already dead. I'm not making excuses but if we're gonna get bent outta shape about people dying, methinks it would be best to address the BIGGER issues first. Especially when they're so easily remedied. It's unfortunate but on issues such as this one, politics play a larger role than they should. It's not about how many people can be saved but what group is the easiest to victimize in order to get our desired result. Everybody drives and everybody uses cell phones. Shooters and hunters are easy marks because they're easily demonized.
 
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