What to carry that requires twice daily administrative handling?

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Doc7

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I work for a great employer, have for several years. I’ve also been recently promoted and am grateful for the career opportunities they’ve provided me and a chance to work hard and progress. I strive to follow all policies and procedures, even ones I disagree with.

I live in a state which does not have a law allowing employees to bring firearms into company property. My employer (Fortune 500, 10K-25K employees) has a form (not available via the intranet website, obtained via double-secret probation and asking the correct contacts) allowing employees to have a firearm in their vehicle on company property, if signed off by your immediate supervisor and the director of your department and a background check performed, along with copy of concealed carry permit.

The form requires the firearm to be Unloaded and stored in a locked vehicle.

It seems unnecessarily risky to me to unholster and load and unload my typical carry, Glock 19, twice a day. In the years that I’ve been CCW I have never unloaded it except for cleaning/maintenance - it stays in its holster as I remove from my pants and put in the safe nightly.

Is a revolver w/ speed loader the right move here? Figuring this may likely become a permanent “truck/car gun” and only be CCW if I stop on the way home from work, instead it’s more for an emergency roadside event (carjack or whatever).
 
Yes, I'd agree that a revolver may have to step up here. If you're familiar with the term "bullet setback", you'll know why it would be more than impractical to keep clearing and reloading an autoloader. You don't want to keep re-chambering a particular round of ammunition.

Carrying and stowing the autoloader in "Condition 3" is another, but far-less desirable option. I see no reason to cripple a Glock.
 
With the hassle of unloading/loading every day being an issue, you could:

Go with an entirely new system and get a moon-clipped revolver as a truck gun for easier loading/unloading...or maybe learn to carry the G-19 Israeli-style with a loaded mag and none in the chamber when driving to and from work... or load normally and unload your G-19 every day and watch closely for setback.

At least your employer lets you carry in a car while on the property. The County I work for allows no one other than sworn personnel (Sheriff's deputies, Probation officers, DA Investigators, and County FD Arson Investigators) to carry at any time or anywhere on County property...even with a CCW permit...parking lots and cars included. :fire:

It's a bit of a hassle, but a better policy than many others have. Good luck with your search for an answer to your issues, who nows, you may get a new gun out of it :).

Stay safe!
 
If you are limited to using only factory ammo you are very likely to see a lot of setback if you're constantly rechambering rounds. Factory ammo today is just awful. More precision goes into making a Lego toy than what the ammo factories are willing to bother with today. The ONLY things they care now about are mass production volume and sales. That's it. Quality control? You're kidding, right? Setback is a very real danger today with factory loads. Ammo used to be made MUCH better and nobody was rechambering rounds repeatedly every day 20 years ago. Please do not do that for any reason. If you handload it is VERY easy to build ammo the will NOT setback. I have always carried revolvers for many years after seeing so many semi auto pistols suddenly choke for various reasons. I spent some years shooting matches and you would always see at least 2 or 3 guys suddenly have their pistol choke. Always. I have not seen a revolver lock up since about 1992 and it was my fault. Magazine fed weapons are great - but they are magazine fed which relies on a great many factors to be reliable. Add factory ammo with loose bullets and it's just a matter of when it will stop running or come apart in your hand. Murphy teaches us that this will happen when you absolutely, positively and desperately need it to work.
 
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While not preferable, it's not that big of a deal to load, unload. If you are worried about setback, every week or two, toss that round into your range time and send it. In the time you bump the moon clip out of a revolver, you can drop the mag and rack the slide. Timing is the same, maybe faster for the Glock...

Maybe load a round short in the Glock. Roll to work with a round in the chamber. Park. Drop the mag, Rack the slide, Catch the round, put it back in the mag, go to work. Get in the car, rack the Glock, proceed as normal.
 
Tossing a setback round into your range time does not solve the problem unfortunately. Especially if you have been setting it back for a week ot two by repeatedly rechambering it. You don't want to shoot a round like that - especially in some calibers that run at higher pressures.
 
Not every SD situation is a gunfight at the OK corral. If you are already carrying the weapon in the glove compartment, are you really worried about speed. It makes very little difference whether you are in condition 1 or 3 to the speed of getting the gun into the action. In a car even a gun carried on your person is not going to be quickly drawn and fired, so once again, condition 1 or 3 aren't significantly different. Just carry to and from work without a round in the chamber. Drop the mag when arriving at work, replace it before leaving for home. How easy is that? And no investment in a revolver is necessary. You know you don't want one anyway. If you did, you would already have it. KISS
 
rpenmanparker said:
Not every SD situation is a gunfight at the OK corral. If you are already carrying the weapon in the glove compartment, are you really worried about speed. It makes very little difference whether you are in condition 1 or 3 to the speed of getting the gun into the action. In a car even a gun carried on your person is not going to be quickly drawn and fired, so once again, condition 1 or 3 aren't significantly different. Just carry to and from work without a round in the chamber. Drop the mag when arriving at work, replace it before leaving for home. How easy is that? And no investment in a revolver is necessary. You know you don't want one anyway. If you did, you would already have it. KISS
Click to expand...

Now, I read that differently. While I agree, for a firearm in the vehicle, I think condition 3 is fine. But this may all boil down to the OP really does want a revolver...and this is the perfect excuse. I tried to convince myself I didn't want a revolver for the longest time as I have no logical reason to justify the expense. Then I bought one anyway....:evil: I was not disappointed
 
MedWheeler said:
Yes, I'd agree that a revolver may have to step up here. If you're familiar with the term "bullet setback", you'll know why it would be more than impractical to keep clearing and reloading an autoloader. You don't want to keep re-chambering a particular round of ammunition.

Carrying and stowing the autoloader in "Condition 3" is another, but far-less desirable option. I see no reason to cripple a Glock.
Click to expand...

Setback:
standard.jpg
​
But with a revolver you can load and unload as often as you want with little fear of setback.
 
"in a car even a gun carried on your person is not going to be quickly drawn and fired...." Wow, that assumes an awful lot. Why would you even carry a gun if you believe it's not going to help you. I had a job for a few years where I was driving brand new Cadillac and Lincoln limos through some very bad parts of town every day and I was told by my employer that every time I stopped at a light or a stop sign to be VERY aware of individuals waiting to jerk your door open and yank you out of the vehicle. After only a week I could clearly see that they were not kidding. I would stop at an intersection and look around and sure enough they were at least 7 or 8 guys giving me a VERY hard look. I wore a cross draw rig and learned that any time I was stopped to keep my hand on that gun (in the holster) and keep my head on a swivel and scan. I don't think that moon clips are really necessary on a carry gun. On a race gun, you better believe they are.
 
I agree that a revolver is probably your best choice.

One other option that is often neglected is a Beretta 92 variant. Nearly every semiauto maker out there says that you should never drop a round into the chamber from the ejection port as it causes the extractor to bend in a direction not intended and slide over the cartridge edge. However, I'm pretty positive it says in the manual for my Beretta that this is an acceptable practice with the 92. The design just tolerates it. I still avoid it out of habit, but if you keep an eye on the extractor and maybe see if it needs replacing now and then, you may be onto something. A used beater 92 may be your thing.

I think the easier answer is how often does your employer search your vehicle? I'm guessing if you passed the review process by your supervisor and get signed off, you could probably leave a dedicated and loaded firearm in there without a problem. If you found a used Beretta 92, then you could be covered either way if you think your vehicle was going to be checked. Do they check periodically or unexpectedly? I can see you don't want to violate your terms of employment.
 
A moon-clipped revolver would be perfect for this.

Barring that, if I were doing that much handling of a loaded gun in a confined space with no safe direction, I would want any semi-auto pistol to have an external safety - an "off switch." Of course, you'd never "rely" on it and would be as conscious as ever of not touching the trigger, but adding one layer of safety would be better.
 
Since the risk here seems to be getting fired and not getting charged for a criminal offence, I'd probably just keep the gun locked in my vehicle and not worry about if it's unloaded or not. I wouldn't bother with the forms and signoff's either and just keep my mouth shut. The risk of getting caught seems low here. But that's me.

Otherwise, I think the suggestion of a revolver with moonclips is the best one.
 
Bullet setback might not be the only hazard in rechambering the same round. I did a lot of rechambering, but I'd lock the slide back, insert the round directly into the chamber, drop the slide and insert the mag. This only solves the setback issue.

I like to shoot my carry ammo every six months or so, and once the rechambered round failed to fire. I read somewhere that the actual primer material can break up from repeated slamming of the slide hitting it.

Revolver with moon clips, I'm thinkin'...
 
foxmeadow said:
I did a lot of rechambering, but I'd lock the slide back, insert the round directly into the chamber, drop the slide and insert the mag.
Click to expand...
This will accelerate wear on the extractor of most autoloaders. Check the manual before making this a habit.

As I said above, the Beretta 92 is the only one I know of that the manufacturer specifically states it's ok to do.

I'm sure there are others but check before assuming.
 
If you are to follow the letter of the law: Tip up barrel Beretta if okay with .380, or the moon clip revolver. I like the latter a lot. Get it in the same caliber as what you prefer to carry. Done!

I would not want to just carry condition 3 in the car because presumably you won't carry that way the rest of the time, or practice. So, pretty good chance you draw and go click when needed due to training from a better ready condition.

If you DID get used to it, it could cause lax safety practices (it does, seen it) as it's okay, the gun isn't loaded. With all the second order effects of that.


Too bad people writing these policies don't understand the consequences. Or maybe they want there to be an ND during handling, then they can bad them all as Dangerous.
 
460Shooter said:
I agree that a revolver is probably your best choice.

One other option that is often neglected is a Beretta 92 variant. Nearly every semiauto maker out there says that you should never drop a round into the chamber from the ejection port as it causes the extractor to bend in a direction not intended and slide over the cartridge edge. However, I'm pretty positive it says in the manual for my Beretta that this is an acceptable practice with the 92. The design just tolerates it. I still avoid it out of habit, but if you keep an eye on the extractor and maybe see if it needs replacing now and then, you may be onto something. A used beater 92 may be your thing.
Click to expand...
I have never heard this about semiautos and have been doing this quite a bit lately with my Pico. I'll have to see if Beretta kept that feature after the 92. This is exactly why I stay around here, get frustrated often enough but way too much good information I still need to learn to let it bother me.

To the OP I would just take this as an opportunity to buy a new gun. I have also been thinking of getting a wheel gun in my safe for several months now so it wouldn't take much to talk me into buying one.
 
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