Blades for home defense?

Part of defense is preparedness and that includes being aware of what you have available around you. For example in my kitchen there are knives but also a couple scissors and a couple cast iron frying pans and often hot water. In the living room there are cat scratching posts that are based on a 2x4 as well as a pair of softball sized bronze turtles that would make great weapons.

The point is that self defense is not a single choice/black-white issue; it's a whole range of tools that you need to plan on being able to use. If there are knives available, use them. If it's just turtles all the way down then use turtles.

Home defense is a whole package. It is not static, but dynamic and changes as more lessons are learned and discovered about weaknesses discovered and the ingenuity of bad guys .

Had a friend, old geezer like me, Vietnam vet, not disabled but moved slow and needed a cane. Him and I think we are pretty good at layered defense and have put a lot of thought into incorporating hard and soft home defense stuff.

But Murphy and his law showed up one day at his house.

His younger sister married a scrum bag.
The guy had no redeeming social value and was using Oxygen others could use better. The jerk comes to his house one day to demand "their share " of a pending inheritance. Now!. Nothing my friend could do about it, it was going through probate and the dude would get his money in due time.
Dude get all agitated and starts pushing and punching my friend. He is not armed and he was taking a beating so he grabbed his little pocket knife and stabs the bum in the neck and kills him.

Took the D A and grand jury 3 months to no Bill him and rule it justifiable homicide.

You think the lesson here is always carry, but it really is don't let morons in your house.

In an emergency people use whatever tools are available to them to defend themselves and their family. I can completely and wholeheartedly get behind that. Do what you have to.

However that's a bit different than having several pistols, carbines and shotguns available to you and choosing a katana, a claymore, a Ka-Bar, a carpenters hammer, a small pocket knife or a bronzed turtle as a planned defensive effort to repel home invaders instead.

One is using less than ideal weapons just because that's all that's available to you inspite of your best preparations.

The other (unless forced into this role by draconian firearms legislation) is being wildly eccentric to the point of being ludicrous.

... just saying. : Shrug

Browning said:

However that's a bit different than having several pistols, carbines and shotguns available to you and choosing a katana, a claymore, a Ka-Bar, a carpenters hammer, a small pocket knife or a bronzed turtle as a planned defensive effort to repel home invaders instead.

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The key is to stop the threat. If you can stop the threat with a bronze turtle even though you have a gun handy, then the turtle is an appropriate choice. If nothing else a nice flying turtle will allow additional time for me to get my gun out. The goal is to have options; planned defensive efforts should include anything possible and available.

Personally, I do all I can to stop such issues even before they get to the home invasion point. The storm door is locked and is tempered glass, there are multiple dead bolts on the metal front door, but even more, the front, side and back yard are covered by the best and brightest LED lights I can find and are on motion detectors. Anyone moving anywhere near my house gets lit up. (except of course later this month when it changes to black lights). There is an interior alarm system with area identification that also turns on the lights near the sensor that was tripped.

jar said:

The key is to stop the threat. If you can stop the threat with a bronze turtle even though you have a gun handy, then the turtle is an appropriate choice. If nothing else a nice flying turtle will allow additional time for me to get my gun out. The goal is to have options; planned defensive efforts should include anything possible and available.

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The thing is you're reacting to someone breaking into your home. It's not a discussion on the net where you have all kinds of time to plan out what you'll do, you're reacting to stimuli.

What weapon do you grab?



While grabbing the bronzed turtle (or the knife) isn't as stupid as grabbing a banana in the above scene, it's fairly close. You wouldn't know whether you'll be able to knock out the intruder out with a mighty heave of the metallic tortoise or not, no benefit of hindsight here.

Either it works or it fails completely and you don't have another one to throw (unless you bought them as a pair).

Personally, I do all I can to stop such issues even before they get to the home invasion point. The storm door is locked and is tempered glass, there are multiple dead bolts on the metal front door, but even more, the front, side and back yard are covered by the best and brightest LED lights I can find and are on motion detectors. Anyone moving anywhere near my house gets lit up. (except of course later this month when it changes to black lights). There is an interior alarm system with area identification that also turns on the lights near the sensor that was tripped.

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Of course. Who wouldn't?

That's not really the subject here though. It's whether you incorporate a knife into your home defense plans. I certainly do. I have a knife in my pocket tucked into my cargo shorts or sweats even when I'm sleeping. Using it is way down on my list of options after I empty the guns and spare mags that I have available to me on my person (if I'm awake), on top of my safe or by my bedside though.

Browning said:

The thing is you're reacting to someone breaking into your home. It's not a discussion on the net where you have all kinds of time to plan out what you'll do, you're reacting to stimuli.

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If you plan during the breaking, if you are just reacting, you already lost.

The time to plan is before and you should plan based on NOT having the optimal resources.

As I pointed out up thread, look around your environment at home and also everywhere you go. What's available to you now, right now that might help, that can be a weapon. In some of the recent shootings if everyone present had just grabbed something and thrown it at the shooter would it have helped? If they had thrown trash cans and staplers and cell phones and chairs and anything handy at the guy would it have saved lives?

jar said:

If you plan during the breaking, if you are just reacting, you already lost.

The time to plan is before and you should plan based on NOT having the optimal resources.

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What I'm talking about is that basically when there's a break-in or a home invasion that you're just reacting to stimulus. There's no time to plan (so you should obviously have a plan before that happens).

We're saying the exact same thing.

So if you plan on using a metallic turtle or a knife instead of a gun then that's kind of a dumb idea.

To return to the legal issues, JohnKSa have made the point that weapons type might be an active issue if you are on trial. That means it is not a 'good slice and dice' as the authorities don't see it that way. This is a point missed by so many and in this conversation. If you go to trial, your weapon, your appearance, your social media, etc. are things that may be brought before the jury and will help them to disambiguate your ambiguous use of force. The evidence for this happening is overwhelming. Clearly good shoots or bladed usages are not relevant. It is when you are on trial that counts. Then it is not good.

Let's try a thought experiments:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Yoshihiro_Hattori

The kid was approaching the house. The wife panicked and told hubby to get the gun. He went outside and challenged the kid. The kid did not understand and was shot. The incident is clearly ambiguous and the shooter was lucky to get off. Note he went to trial, so it was not an 'automatic' good shoot.

Let's say instead, that the husband went outside with a claymore sword. He challenges the kid and when the kid doesn't understand, the hubby run up and beheads him.

Do you think weapons type will not influence the jury?

What next? IDPA spear chucking?

A alarm system would have been the first defense. Just simple awareness of shutting the Garage door and locking it would most likely prevented the attack in the first place. What a shame that when the animal in the video went upstairs and came back down, he did not get a chest and face full of 00 buckshot.
The important thing about all this thread, is the fact that these animals exist and constantly on the prowl for victims. Don't be one.

"Deadly force is that amount of force I know, or should know, will cause serious bodily injury or death, to be used as a last resort when all lesser means have failed or cannot reasonably be utilized."

This is the definition of deadly force I learned while in the Navy. Along with it were the seven times deadly force is authorized, which we all had to know.

About the only thing different between the military and the civilian world here is when deadly force is authorized. As civilians, we don't get all the options the military does...or the police, for that matter. Mainly because people in those organizations are deliberately charged with specific responsibilities which civilians are not. Arrest/apprehension or protection of vital national assets are examples of things civilians aren't covered under, for example.

Note there is no mention of HOW that deadly force may be applied. Could be by hand, stick, rock, blade, car, grenade, gun, or needlepoint. Deadly force is deadly force.

Though the specific wording may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and when it's authorized for use as well, the basic definition of deadly force is the same.

If you use deadly force, circumstances and intent will come into play as police investigate and a DA decides whether or not to take it to court.

It'll be ugly whether you go to court or not...but if you DO go to court, it won't matter one whit what method you use, the State will attempt to place you in the worst possible light...because that's what they do when prosecuting people.

Your BEST legal defense is therefore to know and understand your jurisdiction's definition of deadly force AND when it's authorized for use...and to prepare your self-defense strategies accordingly.

THIS...above all else.

I was specifically responding to the general proposition that weapons type wouldn’t influence the ‘court’. While in the context of this thread, the statement was generic and incorrect. We know weapons type is used in trials that have occurred and influenced simulations. Influence the court - what does that mean? It is a jury of people that counts.
That my example was outside - let’ change it. You hear a noise and search for it with your claymore. It is drunk neighbor or mistaken police officer that you behead. Would this influence a jury?

The tactics of how to use a spear are secondary. Such issues influence ambiguous incidents. To say as the post I quoted did, that it isn’t a consideration is still bad advice.

Weapons of opportunity are better than no weapon. Think!
There is no more restrictive work environment than a hospital. All weapons are prohibited, and wearing pocketless scrubs stinks. So one day this drunk cretin gets all crazy in the waiting room. I tell him to calm down and he goes all macho on me and advances while mumbling about kicking my butt. I grabbed a Southern living magazine and rolled it up and used it like a night stick with the training from a previous life.
Mr cretin learned some manners that day. At his trial he blurted out " he hit me with a magazine" The judge Laughed and said " good thing it wasn't a phone book" 60 days in jail.

hso said:

I haven't seen a parsing of the data for justifiable homicides.

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They started collecting that data in 2013, at least consistently: Table 15 - Justifiable Homicide By Weapon, Private Citizen, 2013–2017

This is not me arguing, I feel people make valid points, just felt it was useful objective data to all. To sum up, the weapons used have remained fairly consistent. The handgun makes up the majority, averaging 76% across 5 years, while long guns average 8%. Edged weapons are 13%, unarmed beating 5%, and "other" weapons 3%.

It's notable that this and many other data sets (such as the CDC's cause of death database) have an "firearm of unknown type" that is fairly large (13% in this case), which can unintentionally skew the stats on the use of long guns in both crime and justifiable use. Something to think about when quoting stats in discussions. Another limitation is this only counts fatal use of force, and doesn't cover non-fatal injury or no-injury encounters.

I'd go with a tomahawk or Bowie.

I am from the UK.

We have no effective defence against violence either in our homes or in the street.

Our (uk) legal position is let the offender kill you, and let your ghost prosecute the offender.
The police will protect you - forgive my laughter!!!!!!
When seconds count, the police are only hours away - actually 45 minutes in our case!

I bought my daughter a house to live in, following an abusive and dangerous relationship.
One of the new neighbours - we will call him Wyn to protect the innocent - was/is a misgonist, and could not stand the
idea that a woman could/should live in/own a property, and reject his advances!

I was threatened by a neighbour to one of my properties (not the one I live in)
with a spade and the words " You are dead if you come round here you f*****g c**t".
Video provided to the police. He was caught stealing from and damaging the property
concerned, by video camera after several incidents ie stealing coal and logs and damaging
things eg shed doors, damaging plants and trees.
One day heard by neighbors to say "I will follow you down the street and kill you", to my daughter.
Also recorded on daughters phone!
Police called!

The attending officer was a personal friend of the offender
and decided to ignore the videos (including theats to kill)
saying "I did not see that", and received a final warning
after a complaint for not being impartial (he went and had a friendly chat to his friend
about the rugby club they both were members of), also on video!

The police (Dyfed-Powys in Wales) did absolutely nothing about the threats
except make excuses as to why they were doing nothing!
Not even a complaint to the Commissioner about the "not fit for purpose"
of the local police achieved a damn thing!
IMHO they could not be arsed ie too much trouble!

Daughter moved out of that property into rented accomodation.

My position (opinion) is deal with the situation "by any means necessary",
and not inform the police/authorities. i.e. the offender contributes to the next several
years of runner beans/peas etc.
This is my sincere opinion, and make of it what you will.

The authorities (police) are the second enemy, and more dangerous than the offender,
so why inform them of any unfortunate event!
Thousands or people go missing every year!

Do not surrender your weapons (2nd amendment etc).

Any blade in reach is the correct one for home defence!

An edged weapon MAY (please note the conditional here) be more effective than a firearm for an untrained or marginally trained individual. Remember we are folks who spend time on a firearms board in our spare time, we are on the edge of the bell curve already. The rest of the world is probably quiet a bit less skilled, and certainly less interested in being skilled with a firearm. We see it all the time with our police cadets in force on force, they miss at ranges that seem ludicrously close, heck our officers do it to. We just ran inservice were we had officers throwing rounds off the body at 7' (FEET) in the shooting simulator using a training laser pistol (kind of like a fancy SIRT pistol).

A knife in the hands of even the most inept is a dangerous tool, if the distance is closed. Think the general flailing most tend to think of "girl fighting (or slap fighting)", and now add a 3"-4" long knife in those hands. You have to be either willing to accept injury (possibly severe), or have a lot of skill to avoid injury in dealing with someone failing around with a knife (let alone someone who knows what to do with it). In terms of lethality I'll still give the benefit to the handgun, but we're not talking lethality. We're usually talking risk of injury being what motivates criminals to leave, barring drugs/altered mentation. If the last two are in play, really anything short of the claymore mentioned above (the triggered mine, not the sword) is really the only sure fire answer.

Nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

bikerdoc said:

At his trial he blurted out " he hit me with a magazine" The judge Laughed and said " good thing it wasn't a phone book" 60 days in jail.

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You, sir, have earned the "Laugh of the Day" award!

Smatchet. Fairbairn and British Spec Ops liked them. https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-smatchet-fairbairns-other-fighting-knife/

In the event that there was a need to repel a home invader and a firearm was not available, I would reach for almost any hammer before almost any knife. It amuses me to no end when I have to work in a facility that restricts me from carrying a pocketknife, but lets me roll right through the door with hammers, pry bars, etc on my tool cart.

No firearm. Home invader. An edged weapon might not be my first choice for a number of reasons. As close a proximity that you have to be with your attacker to use an edged weapon, that's how close the attacker is to you. Without superior physical ability, and strength, and training, the odds are 50/50 as to who is going to win.

The attacker has an equal opportunity to parry, and/or grapple with you, and either disarm you, or use the weapon against you.
Edged weapons do not stop attacks generally, unless the attacker becomes aware of extreme pain, or succumbs to blood loss.
You don't need an equalizer, you need to gain situational dominance, that will either incapacitate the invader or buy you enough time and distance to flee the threat.

Edged weapons do not get you much sympathy in court; defensive or not. People have preconceived notions that edged weapon use on people, tends to be sinister.

A softball bat for example, requires physical strength to wield effectively. Half-hearted strikes only complicate the problem. They leave you with a very angry attacker.

Chemical weapons such as pepper spray or bear spray are generally effective. If the invader is high on drugs; which might be the reason he is there to begin with, chemical weapons may not work. The same with TASER like weapons.

Physical security measures, locks, doors, bars on the windows alarms are your best first defense. If those measures are defeated, nothing says "stop" like a firearm.

JeffG said:

Physical security measures, locks, doors, bars on the windows alarms are your best first defense. If those measures are defeated, nothing says "stop" like a firearm.

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Don't forget two really inexpensive additional measures, bright lights and motion detection. Today there are lots of multi LED panels that are solar powered or have batteries that can really light up exterior or interior spaces while you remain in the less brightly or dark areas.