Let's talk straight pull bolt actions

Duplicate post

Duplicate post

Bushpilot said:

Who really wants to change a barrel and re-sight in every time they want to shoot a different cartridge? I recall hearing that the ability to change barrels, which has long been a more popular idea in Europe, is driven more by their gun laws and licensing than by practicality.

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There is no need to resight anything with a Blaser R8. Buy a scope and mount for each barrel, the mount attaches to the barrel not the receiver. A caliber change involves only a barrel swap if the cartridges share a bolt face and magazine size. Otherwise you have to put a new bolt head in the bolt assembly, and a different magazine insert in the magazine plus the new barrel. The barrel secured with two captive screws to a mounting surface on the stock/receiver, the receiver only acts as a mount for the barrel, trigger group/magazine, and the raceways for the bolt assembly. The bolt locks up directly to the barrel. Everything returns to zero when assembled.

The concept is very interesting and evidently quite accurate and repeatable.

The R8 also has the best safety in the world. Putting the rifle on safe de-cocks the striker, and the rifle is inert. Bolt is also locked but can be overridden while still on safe to load or unload.

There is no need to resight anything with a Blaser R8.

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Interesting videos. I understand the Blaser is supposed to stay sighted in between barrel swaps but I question to what degree. Does the Blaser's Point of Impact remain unchanged after a barrel swap or does it just stay on the paper? I would like to see how much the POI actually varies between barrel/bolt/scope removal and reassembly. I know that it is not uncommon for the POI on conventional rifles to change from removing the scope and barreled action for cleaning or maintenance, requiring a sight adjustment or check before the next use. I also don't see the point in having a fancy gun case that you can't store an assembled rifle in, or, at the very least, with scopes mounted on the barrels. The idea of using just one scope on multiple barrels alone, as implied in the videos, is going to require the rifle to be re-sighted in between barrel changes.

I guess what I would be interested in seeing is an independent video showing several five shot groups fired from the Blaser to establish POI and then several more 5 shot groups fired with the rifle disassembled and reassembled between each group, taking heating and cooling times into consideration and noting any change in POI. Then, if the POI remained consistent throughout I would be quite impressed and consider the Blaser's barrel swapping system a truly practical alternative to owning multiple rifles.

Well this guy demonstrates shooting a group taking the barrel off every 2 shots....



For full disassembly and reassembly including scope mount (albeit from Blaser).....



Personally with high quality scope mounts I’ve never once had a return to zero issue, for example with my Nightforce Uni-Mount. I can unbolt it from the rail and reinstall it and it never deviates as long as I ensure that I slide it forward to seat against the picatinny before torquing the bolts. The Blaser mount clamps directly onto the barrel, and the one I handled had zero variance in the mounting surface to mount interface. To say it was a high tolerance/extreme minimum clearance fit would be an understatement.

Well, if that is typical consider me impressed...

I have a Blaser R8 Kilombero and I can tell you that the scope absolutely returns to 0 on the same barrel.
I also like the straight pull bolt which is very fast and the rifle's manual decock.

REF: https://www.blaser.de/en/products/bolt-action-rifle-r8/r8-safari-rifles/r8-kilombero/

I have 2 barrels (.375 H&H Mag, .300 Win Mag) and 2 scopes (Zeiss 1.5-6x and 4-16x).
I use the 1.5-6x on the .375 and the 4-16x on the .300 Win.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the windage zeroes were very close, within a 1-2cm at 100M.
For example, when I first put the 1.5-6x scope on the .375 H&H Mag barrel the scope was perfectly sighted out of the box a little high and perfectly centered at 100 yds. I could have literally unboxed the scope & rifle and gone hunting without first sighting the rifle.
Note I would never actually do this.
The machining is simply fabulous on these rifles, IMHO.

If I want a new caliber I just get a new barrel and depending on the caliber, a new bolt face. I simply LOVE that idea.

I'm also thinking of getting an Aimpoint red dot for the .375 H&H Mag or perhaps for the future .416 Remington barrel I've been drooling over.

Regarding return to zero after barrel swaps.
The degree of return to zero is absolutely without a doubt 100%. I can swap my .375 H&H Mag with the 1.5-6x and the .300 Win Mag with the 4-16x all day and the zero returns perfectly. And there's an obvious reason which is that the scope is mounted to the barrel. Other rifles mount the scope to the receiver. This is not the case with the Blaser system.

Bushpilot said:

Well, if that is typical consider me impressed...

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All the reviews and owner accounts I have heard indicate that it is indeed typical, Blaser specifically designed the rifle to be capable of this.

Other examples of switch caliber rifles returning to zero with their optics package can be found, Accuracy International with the AX, and AXMC come to mind.

boom boom said:

Can't speak for Alexander a but the action requires significant force to operate and most of these rifles were shortened into carbines. In addition these were also converted to a more powerful round, the 8x56r, during the 1930s and recoil is brutal. Trigger pull is pretty bad too.

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Thank you.

I've been asked by customers to look into these rifles. I'm still working on finding a decent specimen for a decent price; meantime, I'm gathering areas in which they can be improved.

Regards,
Josh

Bushpilot said:

Well, if that is typical consider me impressed...

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Me too. That was quite impressive. And hand torqued!

The new rifle does nothing for me, but then in general new guns leave me cold, I like older things.

Now a nice Mark II** Ross....yea gimmie.

Joshua M. Smith said:

Thank you.

I've been asked by customers to look into these rifles. I'm still working on finding a decent specimen for a decent price; meantime, I'm gathering areas in which they can be improved.

Regards,
Josh

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Prices have really climbed on these. Seems like only yesterday, they were being sold for $100-200. Now, good specimens are bringing $400 and up. If you figure out a way to improve the Mannlicher trigger, that would be a major plus or a bolt disassembly tool. The bolt is a real pain to disassemble for cleaning and lubrication which makes the operation of the bolt smoother. The real jewel of these is if you can find an untouched 8x50r Rifle that hasn't been cut. You can make brass now for it from the later 8x56r. I also suppose that there are 8x56r long rifle chamber conversion only but I haven't seen one. Those would be a bit better on recoil.

Now, good [Steyr M95] specimens are bringing $400 and up.

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I'm still working on finding a decent specimen for a decent price

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If someone offered me $400 for mine they could have it. I dug mine out this morning and after looking it over the only thing I really like about it is it's small, handy size. The straight pull bolt action is stiff, the trigger is creepy, heavy, spongy and the combination safety/firingpin/bolt lock must take 20lbs of pressure to engage. And this is all from a rifle that is in pretty good shape. How about it Joshua, are you interested? Here is your chance to experience first hand the "joys" of a M95...

Years ago, (back in my straight-pull collection days), I had a M95 that had been converted to a "stalking rifle" by a credible Austrian gunsmith. It was restocked with a lightweight thin stock with cheekrest and rebarreled with an 18" super-thin barrel complete with full length rib and express sights.It was tastefully engraved and checkered.
As I remember the whole thing weighed 5 or 6 lbs. I remember that because of the thin barrel and rib you could get no more than two of three shots off before the barrel heat warped it off the paper.....
I also remember that it kicked like an Arkansas Mule.

A bag of Prvi Partizan 8x56r brass is under $85.00, last I checked. I plan to develop my own loads, then work out the gun's other kinks.
-and remember, the main tool for removing or installing the bolt is a penny.

theotherwaldo said:

A bag of Prvi Partizan 8x56r brass is under $85.00, last I checked. I plan to develop my own loads, then work out the gun's other kinks.
-and remember, the main tool for removing or installing the bolt is a penny.

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I use a 1917 Bolt Tool that I made from scrap in the shape of a horseshoe. As clumsy as I am, I would dislodge the penny and lose some skin in the balance.

-I've always had to pry the penny out, but hey, do what works for you!

I think most shooters would rather have the leverage and simplicity of a conventional bolt to the speed of the straight pull. The straight pull can be harder to pull and more expensive and complicated. To each his own.

theotherwaldo said:

-I've always had to pry the penny out, but hey, do what works for you!

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I dislike breaking down 1917's and P14 bolts for cleaning and gotten bit a time or two but that powerful spring action on the m95 bolt and the narrow space to insert something means more opportunity for me to give blood to the rifle gods.

I've broken my m95 bolt down twice--once when I purchased it to do a detailed strip and clean, and then again when I had found damage (chipping) to some bolt components and replaced them. I hated it both times. Other Mannlichers (Berthiers, Lebels, and Carcanos) or separate bolt heads types such as the Mauser 71/84, the 1888 Commission, the Mosin types, or the Lee Enfield series along with the Swiss Schmidt Rubins or K31's aren't the pain to disassemble that the m95 is. Given the common heritage, I suspect the Dutch flavor of this rifle also sucks on taking down the bolt. I have the beastie as a representative of Bulgarian arms in WWI and II but it is probably my least favorite military surplus rifle.

To be fair, I have joint damage that makes some tasks difficult now such as grasping and holding slick hard objects or small ones that I used to be able to do easily. It also makes it more difficult to run the bolt on the m95.

That mad minute video was fascinating but there was something odd about it..... then I realized something. The rifle had absolutely NO recoil. He was shooting blanks. The muzzle flash was another giveaway.

Bet he can't shoot that fast with live ammo......

I’m a milsurp collector so I like the Steyr, but I like all clunky milsurp guys because while not functionally perfect, it shows me the progression of firearms development. Still, I think the Swiss 1896 is perfection for a straight pull military rifle

tark said:

That mad minute video was fascinating but there was something odd about it..... then I realized something. The rifle had absolutely NO recoil. He was shooting blanks. The muzzle flash was another giveaway.

Bet he can't shoot that fast with live ammo......

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I suspect that you are right. For me, the mad minute has no appeal in that I would start mentally wincing at the money that I would be throwing down range. It is bad enough with AR's and other semi autos. If I was practicing such, I would use blanks too!!!

Jessesky said:

I’m a milsurp collector so I like the Steyr, but I like all clunky milsurp guys because while not functionally perfect, it shows me the progression of firearms development. Still, I think the Swiss 1896 is perfection for a straight pull military rifle

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Curious why you would say the 1896 rather than the later 1911 or the K31. The 96 action is a bit weaker than either of those as it was not designed for the GP11 cartridge.

boom boom said:

Curious why you would say the 1896 rather than the later 1911 or the K31. The 96 action is a bit weaker than either of those as it was not designed for the GP11 cartridge.

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Let me reword that, the 1896/11 is my favorite. The action is much smoother than the k31 in my opinion and can handle gp11 pressures just fine. Also I like that it is still a long rifle.