Colt Army 41 ID

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jesse Heywood

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
2,981
Location
Kansas
Looking at a Colt available locally, but am uncertain about its identity. Gun is identified as a Colt New Army DA 41, no SN. Would like to know more before I go look at it.
Cylinder has no external notches, but does have the square cylinder release.

upload_2018-10-22_22-56-2.png
upload_2018-10-22_22-56-28.png
 
No serial number?! How can they sell it, if they are an FFL holder?

Also, on swing-out-cylinder Colts of this early type, the cylinder indexing was done on the back face of the cylinder, like on the Colt Lightning DA rod-ejector revolvers. It was not a good system. On the Lightnings, there is spring in the system that is over-stressed in routine use, and breaks fairly often. I don't know about the version in these early swing-out cylinder guns. Colt did not make nearly as many of them.

On the other hand, if it works, and the serial number can be found, it looks decent. 41 Long Colt might be made nowadays because of demand from cowboy action shooters.
 
No serial number?! How can they sell it, if they are an FFL holder?

Also, on swing-out-cylinder Colts of this early type, the cylinder indexing was done on the back face of the cylinder, like on the Colt Lightning DA rod-ejector revolvers. It was not a good system. On the Lightnings, there is spring in the system that is over-stressed in routine use, and breaks fairly often. I don't know about the version in these early swing-out cylinder guns. Colt did not make nearly as many of them.

On the other hand, if it works, and the serial number can be found, it looks decent. 41 Long Colt might be made nowadays because of demand from cowboy action shooters.

Before 1968 serial numbers were not required on firearms. I've purchased several firearms that did not have a serial number. If you take the time to read the instructions for the 4473 you will find the seller just needs to put NSN in the serial number area.
 
Without the cylinder notches the gun would be a Colt New Navy Model.

Also, the grips on the pictured gun are commercial New Navy Model hard rubber grips.
The New Army model commercial grips had the Colt pony on the grips.

Before the 1968 Gun Control Act a firearm didn't have to have a serial number.
HOWEVER, Federal law states that if a firearm EVER HAD a serial number and the number has been removed, defaced, or altered, it's ILLEGAL to have it.
True, I doubt any law officer is going to be worried about a 100 year plus old gun for which no ammo is readily available.
But if some hard case did see it you could be in trouble.
 
Howdy

Colt always put Serial Numbers on their guns. So did Winchester, Smith and Wesson, and many other manufacturers long before 1968.

I can practically guarantee there is a serial number somewhere on that gun.



41 Long Colt might be made nowadays because of demand from cowboy action shooters.


Nope. 41 Colt is an old heeled bullet round. At one point the bullet diameter was reduced to about .386 and had a deep hollow base so the skirt would expand to fit the .406 rifling of the barrel. Absolutely no interest in CAS that I am aware of. The cartridge in the center of this photo is a 41 Colt. Note the bullet is the same diameter as the case. On the left is a 45 Colt, on the right is a 44 Colt, which also used a heeled bullet.

45C41LC44C.jpg
 
Last edited:
Without the cylinder notches the gun would be a Colt New Navy Model.

Also, the grips on the pictured gun are commercial New Navy Model hard rubber grips.
The New Army model commercial grips had the Colt pony on the grips.
That is what I was wanting. I couldn't figure out what it was from the blue book. Thanks.
 
Howdy Again

It can be confusing identifying some of the older Colt double action revolvers. The only one I am aware of that was made without cylinder locking notches, other than the Lightning and Thunderer, was the Navy Model of 1889. Army trials in 1890 and 1891 showed the deficiencies of the design, it was possible for the cylinder to rotate when holstered, or if the shooter tried to turn the cylinder as he pulled the trigger. This led Colt to a redesign using conventional cylinder locking notches with the New Army and Navy Model of 1892. The operant word here is 'New', meaning the gun was redesigned to include locking notches on the cylinder.
 
Howdy

Colt always put Serial Numbers on their guns. So did Winchester, Smith and Wesson, and many other manufacturers long before 1968.

I can practically guarantee there is a serial number somewhere on that gun.

Remington didn't. I've got a couple of Remington rimfire rifles with no serial number.
 
This appears to be an 1899 Colt DA. The cylinder locking bolt notches are on the back end of the Cylinder like they are on the Colt 1877 Lightnings and 1878 Double Actions. Lock work was changed in about 1892 to put the locking bolt notches on the outside of the cylinder like they are today. In about 1896 a second series of bolt cuts was added. These Colts have a cylinder rotation counter clockwise. Considering that almost 300,000 were manufactured from 1899 to around 1907 these had a fair following. One in 41 Colt was carried by a US Marshal in the Oklahoma Territory
 
41 Colt is an old heeled bullet round. At one point the bullet diameter was reduced to about .386 and had a deep hollow base so the skirt would expand to fit the .406 rifling of the barrel. Absolutely no interest in CAS that I am aware of. The cartridge in the center of this photo is a 41 Colt. Note the bullet is the same diameter as the case. On the left is a 45 Colt, on the right is a 44 Colt, which also used a heeled bullet.View attachment 809022

You're right as usual, Driftwood. I see this has been discontinued, god knows for how long:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...-long-colt-200-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-50
 
Old Elmer Keith wrote in Six-guns that the .41 LC was a much better stopper in the early days over .38 spl's. A big bullet in a still concealable package revolver is still pretty viable as a weapon Charter Arms is the one that is really exploiting that market that Taurus left.
 
Remington didn't. I've got a couple of Remington rimfire rifles with no serial number.

Yup, I have a couple of Savage 311 shotguns without Serial Numbers. But many manufacturers routinely put serial numbers on their products long before the government required it. It was simply a good way to keep track of things. In the early days Colts had the Serial Number stamped in three places; bottom of the frame, bottom of the trigger guard, and bottom of the butt.

Take a look at a German Luger sometime. The Germans were so compulsive they serialized almost all the parts that were big enough to stamp a number onto.
 
Originally, numbering lots of parts in a firearm was the opposite of a sign of quality: it meant that only those parts could be relied on to fit together and work properly. Improving the interchangeability of parts - which was an obsession with the Springfield Arsenal, and contributed greatly to the advancement of American manufacturing - eliminated the need to number all the parts. Somehow the Germans did not get the word, or perhaps Lugers were so finicky that extensive numbering was needed.
 
I brought home the gun Friday. SN 24730, 1893 mfg. It is an 1889 Navy. Seller was glad to have the gun properly identified. Only issue was the back corner of the grips were broken. Parked beside were two Police Positives in 32-20 in good condition. They sat up and begged for me to take them home. ColtNavy1.jpg trio.jpg
 
If I remember correctly the ones chambered in 38 long colt were bored straight through. A 38 special will fit in the chamber. Very dangerous as the pressure of the 38 special is much higher than the 38 long colt
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top