Need education on differences between AR pistol and rifle reciever

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Amen:thumbup: And I don't even want to get into the grind about barrel length/Thompson pistol/ armor piercing ammo either. Pointless things to trip up a firearms owner to make them into a law breaker and chill the want to own firearms at all.:scrutiny:
 
Case in point. ATF prosecuted just such a weapon. The jury found for the defendant but the ATF clearly doesn't approve. And will just as clearly prosecute.

https://blog.princelaw.com/2018/10/...made-up-out-of-whole-cloth-you-might-be-next/


The relevant issues at trial relate to the specifics of Wright’s firearm, an AR pistol platform that was modified with an angled foregrip and collapsible stock.

I think it was actually a vertical foregrip. Maybe wrong. The collapsible stock is not clear. I don't know of a brace that is anything but held in place with a set screw.
 
So I can have a 20in shotgun with a spare 12in barrel and be completely legal.
No. There is no such thing as a non-NFA firearm with a SMOOTHBORE 12” barrel. If it were a rifled pistol barrel built on a frame that started as a pistol then yes, but not a shotgun. A smoothbore pistol of any length is a NFA item by definition.

Yes, I know it’s stupid.
 
Mossberg Shockwave and Rem Tac with 11" barrels are not considered "shotguns" but "firearms" due to the extended length of the special pistol grip making the overall length over 26". The 26" rule also affects the AR15 in regulating when and if it can have a vertical foregrip legally, which brought about the angled foregrip.

It they regulate it we will circumvent it. Simple as that, when our government becomes unresponsive to the people's will then ingenuity becomes one of our defenses in securing and keeping our freedoms.

More importantly on a day to day basis, what is the purpose of a short barreled firearm? All too many think the short barrel imparts some magical resistance to oppressive oversight or interference, when the real consideration is do you actually "need" that specific ballistic application? Yes, you may spend your money on whatever you like, not the point. We don't question the property rights to do as you please, my point is, do you accept what a 10" barrel actually does?

History lesson: the Army adopted the XM177 before it even fielded the M16 across the board, it's a 10-11" barreled M16 which was later equipped with a "moderator" to knock down the muzzle blast using issue ammo. It was later classed a silencer and regulated, point made, these determinations are fluid. What the AR pistol does is emulate a legal XM177 with NO stock to meet the arbitrary letter of the law. The '34 NFA, to be specific, which was originally intended to be a HANDGUN BAN but Congress turned it into sausage and limited barrels, stocks, auto fire, then thru in silencers for good measure. Then, firearms were traditional and purpose built, with revolvers, lever actions, bolt actions etc constituting the bulk of design. Nobody ever thought a firearm with lower receiver housing a trigger and upper receiver housing a bolt was a feasible possibility. There were few to none available.

Now?

Buy a stripped lower with serial number and mark the form (you are NOT "registering" it at all) as other and done. OR - buy a 80% lower - partially unfinished and not a receiver IAW the ATF - have it shipped direct to your home, and finish it yourself. No FFL or other government interference necessary at the Federal level.

When you assemble it, but the buffer tube of your choice - whichever you like. Leave off the stock. Add an upper of whatever barrel length you like - as far a Federal regulation is concerned - and it is now officially a pistol. States might require that barrel to be no more than a specific length, it's up to you to find out. And there you are, done. Never add a stock to a recievered barrel less than 16" long and no violation of law is inferred.

Constructive possession is mostly an internet monster that hides under the bed. There are a few cases. They are few and far between, and don't forget that with some of those prosecutions, the original and more important charges got thrown out, the prosecutor was down to a few dog pile charges which he got to stick.

Now, as for firearms which shoot shot sells thru a smoothbore, yes, there are those sold openly to the public with less than 18" barrels, and more every day. The "trick" in the firearms regulations is that if it's over 26" with no stock, it does not meet the letter of the law as a "shotgun." And they are selling briskly, having emerged as another "range toy but it's worthless money trap" to "preferred truck gun and home defense firearm." Huh. Imagine that. Why? Because we all thought about what it was really for - about the same application as the XM177.

All these are close quarters firearms for personal defense - not sniper rifles or "assault weapons" or whatever. Range is realistically limited to less than 125 meters, and most likely used under 30 - even inside 21 feet. The XM177 became the preferred weapon for ship board clearing operations - tight corridors and close ranges. The first iteration of the Shockwave was the witness defenders with a more vertical pistol grip and they were used literally on sidewalks, corridors, etc. We are not talking the kind of gun you take on elk or mule deer hunts with ranges out to 500m.

Here's the rub - gun tinkerers are always trying to make certain cartridges and guns do things they weren't originally intended to do. This is not in and of itself a bad thing, but when it creates a genre of weapon that is stretching things to perform, we find the bloom of the first fantasy begins to fade. If the ballistic application just won't fit - it won't fit. You can tweak it all you like but the reality is the dog won't hunt.

AR pistols work fine under 125m. Shotshell firearms, too, but the key is using them in their window of application and not forcing things outside it. Too many do, others post up criticism, and more then jump in defending the arrangement with even less credible claims. And I don't see any end of it until we hatch fully mature, experienced, and educated from the egg shell to walk on the face of the earth. Which is not going to happen.

So, we will have contrary opinions over it, and the ATF will even stretch things beyond reason - the full auto sear shoelace, for instance. If you want a pistol and you have an application where it fits, fine, don't go full retard with it and nobody will notice or care. Note: those who got into the ATF's sights did. There is always a reason why they got attention from a law enforcement organization, heed the lessons. Study the facts and don't assume.

Me, I use my AR pistol for firearms deer season, and later, for alternative (non-rifle) season for what it is, a pistol. It's now a thing in MO among some hunters and we know that the extreme limit of our range is out to 80 meters - and you can't even see that far in woods. So, no problem. MO's only restriction is that a firearm has to be center fire cartridge. Which is better? A .177 Bee or 5.56? .25ACP or .45ACP? We even have "spears" allowed, which borders on the old joke of just hunting with your Buck knife and jumping out of trees. You do you - nobody is telling you that there is only ONE way to do it. In all this, remember - there are guys out there using a recurve with cedar arrows to this day and still getting a deer every year.

It's not the gear, it's the hunter.
 
^^^^ an important point regarding those “firearms” that have <18” barrels and fire shotshells is that they are constructed from virgin receivers. You can’t make one yourself from a receiver that left the factory as a shotgun with a stock, because it’s always going to be a shotgun and not a “firearm.”

Yes, I know it’s stupid.
 
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