Grafs VS Goex

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Hello,
I'm running low on 3F powder, so I'm planning on putting an order in at Grafs and Sons for some black powder. I noticed that the Grafs brand powder is a bit cheaper than Goex. Is the quality about the same between the two brands in your experience with both?
Thanks.
 
I'm shooting both Goex 3f and Graf's 3f right now and can't tell a difference. Graf's seems a tad more energetic.
I did recently buy some Goex 4F and have been playing with that in my revolvers.

Without a chronograph - this is all meaningless.
 
Grafs is Schuetzen supposedly. I know for fact that Schuetzen is better than regular Goex. Shoots a bit cleaner anyway and I get excellent accuracy from Schuetzen.

Now the Olde Eynsford Goex is another story, it is very clean excellent powder and what I use in my small caliber and long range and hunting black powder rounds.
 
I'm shooting both Goex 3f and Graf's 3f right now and can't tell a difference. Graf's seems a tad more energetic.
I did recently buy some Goex 4F and have been playing with that in my revolvers.

Without a chronograph - this is all meaningless.
I have chronographed both powders out of a 44 cal revolver. Avg for Goex = 828
Graf = 679. 30 grains from powder measure got similar results in two other tests. Accuracy for
me was slightly in favor or Goex but OE won the shootout
 
I have chronographed both powders out of a 44 cal revolver. Avg for Goex = 828
Graf = 679. 30 grains from powder measure got similar results in two other tests. Accuracy for
me was slightly in favor or Goex but OE won the shootout
Wow, big difference. What was the load you were using with both powders? I noticed you said that you got similar results with 30 grains.
 
Wow, big difference. What was the load you were using with both powders? I noticed you said that you got similar results with 30 grains.

That’s the difference between standard powders and the energetic ones. Standard Goex will produce similar results compared to Grafs. Olde E, by Goex, will produce similar results compared to Swiss and Triple 7.

Maybe not a big deal if you aren’t a hunter, though less fouling would certainly be nice for range days and competition shooting.
 
When I first got my ROA I noticed how it was roughly the size of a typical .45 Colt, and knowing it that was fairly potent I asked questions. I was continually told that I should forgo considering it for much of anything as it would never be able to perform any better than a .38 Spl giving under 800 fps with a ball.

Eventually I found people who didn’t just use the standard, more common, powders that do indeed only perform to that level, and was shown that using the more energetic powders available could almost double the energy figures.

My NMA seems to like a weighed 33 grns (30 grns from the measure) of 3F Olde E with whatever projectile I’ve fed it. And with my 170 or 195 grn bullet it’s likely in the standard .45 ACP realm of power (350-400 ft/lbs) according to the few chronographed results of similar powders and projectiles. And my ROA seems to like a weighed 38 grns and is likely within the +P levels. Granted the bullet (195 grns) is much lighter, but the powder charge is likely more energetic than the original 40 grn .45 Colt loads if indeed they were originally loaded with 2F as some say, and that assuming they were using an energetic powder as well.
 
Wow, big difference. What was the load you were using with both powders? I noticed you said that you got similar results with 30 grains.
My punctuation was off...the numbers I gave were with 30 grains of 3f. I got similar results in 2 tests same load same gun, also with 18 grains from a 36, velocities were lower but still a big drop with graf compared to Goex and OE
 
Hello,
I'm running low on 3F powder, so I'm planning on putting an order in at Grafs and Sons for some black powder. I noticed that the Grafs brand powder is a bit cheaper than Goex. Is the quality about the same between the two brands in your experience with both?
Thanks.

I have both right now. I see no advantage with Graf's over GOEX in 3Fg in my rifles, other than with the price of the powder. For hunting accuracy I noticed a possible lowering of impact point at 75 yards, by at most maybe an inch, which would account for a slightly slower velocity...or simply my not holding the rifle very still.

I prefer GOEX over Graf's for another reason....GOEX is made in the United States and I'd rather support a company in-country, rather than find out one day when some booger eatin' moron in Washington DC gets restrictions put on imported black powder, that I can't get GOEX because they're out of business. :confused: My last powder purchase was GOEX because my powder supplier was out of the imported Graf's. ;) My previous purchase was Graf's because I wanted to save about $26.00.

Next time that I order, if GOEX is out of stock, then I will order Graf's....

"I hate waiting."...Inugo Montoya, in The Princess Bride.

LD
 
Good point Dave about supporting an American company. I haven't used the Grafs powder but do have several cans of Elephant 2 and 3F I bought from Grafs way back in the early 1990s. I can't tell any difference between it and Goex but I haven't shot any of it in 20 years either.:oops:

But if I were in the market for more powder I would just make another order to powderinc and get a 25 pound case. I did that years ago and still have a good supply left. I and two buddies split the order. That makes it a deal for everyone and you get a good grade of powder. So to the OP find a couple more BP shooters and order a case. Its not going down in price any time soon.
 
In my experience, Goex is dirtier than hell and Graf's burns significantly cleaner, My nod goes to Graf's for percussion revolver, cartridge, and shotshell use. I'm shooting 50 to 100 shots in a match, so fouling is a consideration. If you are only shooting a relatively few shots during an outing, toss a coin.
 
I thought all BP was sorta dirty. With the patch lube I use I can shoot time after time without cleaning. With a conical I have to wipe the bore after 3 shots or so. The Alliant MZ I bought seems to be some of the cleanest burning stuff I have ever used. I really need to try some Triple 7.
 
T7 is a pretty energetic powder. It leaves a gray residue behind that can make seating bullets in a revolver difficult. It does the same in rifles out towards the muzzle. That being said it cleans up easily with 409 or similar products. I changed over to Black MZ recently due to lower cost. I am liking it so far.
 
I've ordered and used both and price per pound does it for me, Grafs, but I'm only punching paper. As for dirtiness, that's irrelevant to me as the pistol has to be cleaned after anyway. I did an informal test with Grafs a few years ago with the colt army as to how many shots could be made before the cylinder became too difficulty to rotate with out assistance. It was in the neighbor of 48 rounds. The 1858, well I just accept I have to dismount the cylinder and clean the base pin every 12 shots or so regardless of the powder.
Post 15 makes a valid point, IMO, but raises a question. If Goex is made here why is it more expensive than imported stuff, corporate greed? However I do have a policy of driving only American brands of autos, Fords and Chryslers so in that light perhaps my annual January order for 25 pounds of 3F will be for Goex, like Dave says if Grafs has it otherwise.....
 
Why is it more expensive here ? Maybe all the regulations the federal government puts on manufacturing anything, and the cost of labor here is normally higher. I don't think it has anything to do with corporate greed.
I shot NMAs for years on the national range. We'd shoot all day, 9 to 5, 10 to 20 shots every 45 minutes. I never had to clean the cylinder axle. Now I was only loading 20grs, but still can't figure out why three or four of us ever had a problem unless it was the light charges. We used them for revolver, re-entry matches, and single shot gun matches. So most the time it was only the same one cylinder unless it was a timed revolver match. That one cylinder would have a hard residue in the bottom of the cylinder by the end of the day. Oh, once in a great while I'd take the cylinder out and wipe off the axle and put a little Rem oil on it. Now I read you don't want to us regular oil but we never had a problem. I've also read on another web site where if the top of each cylinder has a slight crown it will cause the flash of burnt powder to flash up and away from the axle. I haven't tried it yet, but plan on trying it.
 
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