What Is Dry Fire Good For?

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Will maybe there should be a shooting school set up for Dry Fire only since it is just as effective. The training center would be known as Whisper with the loudest sound being click-click.:) Thus there would be no environmental concerns. Like I've previously wrote Dry Fire all you want till Hell freezes over if that what you wish to do. That's your choice!

I don't think anyone is say. "only dry-fire" but a lot of us are saying it's a good tool used to become a better shooter. But as you say, "it's your choice."
 
I can't do my regular dry fire for a month, with no live fire, and shoot as good as I do when I do my normal weekly live fire was well.
I don't see anyone stating that dry fire can replace live fire or that eliminating live fire practice will have no effect on proficiency.
Will maybe there should be a shooting school set up for Dry Fire only since it is just as effective.
Where did anyone say that dryfire was 'just as effective' as live fire? The post you quoted certainly didn't say that, it talked about dryfire as being part of a training program.
Another way to phrase what I was trying to convey in my OP, is that recoil management affects all of the aspects we use dry fire for. Trigger control, grip, sights, all that.
Learning how to pull the trigger without moving the gun, and practicing how to do that consistently doesn't really require recoil management.

Learning HOW to grip the gun to provide good recoil management does require live fire practice, but once that grip has been established (once a person knows how they need to grip the gun to get good recoil management), one can practice acquiring that grip without actually doing live fire.

Practicing to reacquire the sights after a shot does require live fire, however, acquiring the sights from the draw does not.

Can a person become a well-rounded and highly proficient pistol shooter without live fire? I don't think so. But a person can certainly develop, improve and maintain some skills and competencies using dry fire.
 
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There's a lot of other things dry fire is good for, IMO. Good Ol' Boy is on to something. here.
Draw, acquiring target, sight familiarization, grip, aim, trigger discipline all can be had for the cost of no rounds
downrange. So I agree.
 
so, a boxer must spar only to be any good, a football player must scrimmage only to be any good? dry practice seems to be an integral part of any good sport participant's practice routine.

i really like the post regarding muscle tone and memory. that is a big hidden benifit to dry practice (what the op calls dry fire).

luck,

murf
 
Dry firing is not a replacement for live firing. Live firing is not a replacement for dry firing. One is not "better" than the other. The two (dry and live) are both important and have their own purpose. Dry firing enables shooters to identify and address issues such as flinching, trigger jerking, and other poor habits that might not be noticed under the recoil, sound, and muzzle flash when a gun is live fired. Live firing enables shooters to understand their firearm's recoil, improve their ability to execute follow-on shots, and understand their firearm's capabilities and limitations (accuracy, ballistics, etc). Good shooters will be able to call shots (recognize when a shot was poorly executed because of a flinch or other shooter error). New shooters will generally not be able to recognize this under live fire conditions. However, dry firing remains important for both new and seasoned shooters alike.
 
Another way to phrase what I was trying to convey in my OP, is that recoil management affects all of the aspects we use dry fire for. Trigger control, grip, sights, all that.
Actually you'll find that recoil management shouldn't affect any of them. Recoil management can only be learned through Live Fire, but once the techniques are correctly learned, they can be practiced in just as effectively with Day Fire. I consider reacquiring your sight picture, for followup shots, part of recoil management.

It seems as though a few folks here aren't much inhibited by not practicing with recoil, and I can say I'm envious, but also that it doesn't work like that for a lot of others.
Dry fire is very important at the beginning of one's learning progression to practice techniques they've been taught without the distraction of recoil and muzzle blast. They then need to practice in Live Fire to determine if their practice has been correct...if they have been practicing the correct techniques.

Once you've correctly learned those techniques, you don't need as much Live Fire to maintain that level of skill. The only reason you need to practice in Live Fire is to confirm that you are Dry Firing correctly. I had a well respected USPSA GM once tell me that if he had to choose between the two, he'd choose Dry Fire over Live fire...because it was more important to maintaining his skill level. He recommended 7 Dry Fire repetitions for every Live Fire practice shot.

I can't do my regular dry fire for a month, with no live fire, and shoot as good as I do when I do my normal weekly live fire was well.

I suspect I'm not the only one like this.
I would suspect that your Dry Fire techniques aren't addressing the skills you are trying to maintain. One of the harder things to do when Dry Firing is to focus on each shot/presentation and being self critical about how you performed each time. Another common fault is practice a technique as a series of motions as opposed to working on individual movements...E.G.: practicing the draw as one technique and accepting small faults (like bring the hands together before pressing out) rather then correcting that fault by isolating it.

I suspect many folks consider pointing their sights at an image on the TV and pressing the trigger as quality Dry Fire practice...that is the equivalent of plinking. I also suspect that many folks build up high quality bad habits during Dry Fire, because they believe it is a valid substitute for quality instruction
 
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When the beast is going to raise his head and two men meet. One shooter goes to the range on a regular basis and trains. The other goes to the range and trains on a regular basis also, BUT practices dry firing, drawing, trigger control in between those range days. Which one will win? Place your bet.

I also practice dry firing and drawing. And much more is training with Air Pistols. Especially since 99% of my pistol/revolver training is Point and shoot. The BB/Pellet/air soft guns are terrific for that. Amazing how it trains the Memory/Muscle skills of the hand and EYE. And saves thousands of dollars each year in ammo. It also gives you the satisfaction of being able to shoot as often as you like. It saves time, from having to go to a range. Range fees etc. You get a satisfaction of shooting in small increments. Sometimes 20 minutes in the am, 20 minutes in the PM. I do all three. I could Never be able to shoot as often with just Powder Burners, do not care how much I reloaded ammo.
And it is almost like two sports in one. Love air pistols and rifles. In Europe Iron Plate shooting is a major sport. Get your own range in the back yard, garage, basement. And just plain ole fun.Great way to start a new shooter. Many Replica pistols available for exact weight and feel.

 
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Lots of good responses. I'd just throw this in. Dry fire can help with index, gun handling (draws, reloads, other manipulations), transitions, trigger control, sight alignment, and a bunch of other stuff. It can actually help with recoil control, if one is concentrating on the right things (i.e., getting a good drip and applying an appropriate amount of grip force).

It does not, however, really help people who are fighting an actual flinch. Only live-fire can work through a flinch. People who don't fight a flinch (involving a blink at ignition) will often suggest dry fire as being some sort of cure for it. It's not... not at all.

If you find that your dry-fire results are totally divorced from what you experience in live fire, such that dry fire is doing you very little good in terms of hitting what you are aiming at, this is usually a sign that you have a true blink-involved flinch. This will continue to hold back/limit your shooting until you address it in a very purposeful way. If you're doing dry-fire right but not getting any results, then you need to take an honest look at whether you are blinking during ignition in live fire.

I say all of this with great confidence, verging on certitude, because I am a recovering flincher myself. I am quite familiar with the disease... and the treatments that work (and don't work).
 
Here me out. This is for everyone in general but more for folks that may be wondering why they should spend time pulling the trigger on an empty gun.

My personal opinion is that dry fire mainly gets you intimately familiar with your trigger. Along with proper grip it can "prepare" one for live fire but it is NOT a replacement.

To me this seems obvious but it may not be for some folks. Dry fire is well spent time but it's all in vain if you don't get out and regularly test it with live fire.

And by "regularly" I dont mean dry firing year round and live firing once every month or more.

This is my opinion. I'm anxious to hear what more experienced folks have to say.
I have to strongly agree with your thinking on the subject and here is my reasoning. Marine Corps boot camp 1969. After carrying an M14 rifle around for about 6 weeks we began a two week visit to the range. Week one was labeled "snapping in" and consisted of dry fire, hour after endless hour of dry fire as we practiced sight picture, sight alignment and breathing control. Yes, we became very intimately acquainted with the M14 trigger. Squeeze and click as another private cycled your op rod, maybe 1,000 click in a day holding sights on white barrels in sand pits with black dots on them. Day in and day out for a full week. Week 2 we actually had live ammunition and began live fire exercises. It was all that dry fire in standing, sitting, kneeling and prone during week 1 which had us ready to actually feel and hear the bang. While dry fire did not afford the actual recoil you well knew what that trigger felt like and when it would release.

Ron
 
My comment is not so much about dry fire or live fire. I believe learning to always pull smoothly through the trigger break is most important with pistol shooting. Once you become consistent with it the rest falls into place. Some of us have to work a lot harder to maintain these skills than others.
 
I’m not sure if this was meant for only handguns or both handguns and rifles. I dry fire rifles, but only to store without spring tension. Handguns are the only type of gun I dry fire for practice since trigger pull can greatly effect performance
 
Dry fire is dry fire. It isn't a replacement for live fire, but, when range time or ammo is scarce it can be employed to good effect in maintaining your proficiency.
Serious, world class target shooters spend a lot of time in dry fire.
For some, dry fire is the only opportunity to practice drawing due to range rules.
My thoughts anyway
 
Actually you'll find that recoil management shouldn't affect any of them. Recoil management can only be learned through Live Fire, but once the techniques are correctly learned, they can be practiced in just as effectively with Day Fire. I consider reacquiring your sight picture, for followup shots, part of recoil management.


Dry fire is very important at the beginning of one's learning progression to practice techniques they've been taught without the distraction of recoil and muzzle blast. They then need to practice in Live Fire to determine if their practice has been correct...if they have been practicing the correct techniques.

Once you've correctly learned those techniques, you don't need as much Live Fire to maintain that level of skill. The only reason you need to practice in Live Fire is to confirm that you are Dry Firing correctly. I had a well respected USPSA GM once tell me that if he had to choose between the two, he'd choose Dry Fire over Live fire...because it was more important to maintaining his skill level. He recommended 7 Dry Fire repetitions for every Live Fire practice shot.


I would suspect that your Dry Fire techniques aren't addressing the skills you are trying to maintain. One of the harder things to do when Dry Firing is to focus on each shot/presentation and being self critical about how you performed each time. Another common fault is practice a technique as a series of motions as opposed to working on individual movements...E.G.: practicing the draw as one technique and accepting small faults (like bring the hands together before pressing out) rather then correcting that fault by isolating it.

I suspect many folks consider pointing their sights at an image on the TV and pressing the trigger as quality Dry Fire practice...that is the equivalent of plinking. I also suspect that many folks build up high quality bad habits during Dry Fire, because they believe it is a valid substitute for quality instruction




I can dry fire all day long without the gun moving. Proper grip, proper trigger control, but with no recoil. When live firing the gun moves, thus effecting the things we practice during dry fire. To say otherwise seems ignorant. Yes the goal is minimal movement but still...physics and all that.

I would be willing to bet the top competitive shooters out there spend at least as much time live fire as dry, if not more. Since I've gotten into USPSA the folks I've talked to that are in the top tier have told me about how much they get live fire in every week. They don't look down on dry fire by any means but definitely encourage as much live fire as you can afford to do.

As I said, some here seem to be able, or be advanced enough to get by with minimal live fire, and I'm not questioning that, you guys do what works for you. But I think for most average folks we should strive for as much live fire as we can get.

And use dry fire to supplement when we can't.
 
When live firing the gun moves, thus effecting the things we practice during dry fire. To say otherwise seems ignorant. Yes the goal is minimal movement but still...physics and all that.
You're looking at a skewed result and making a statement based on a lack of understanding of the ultimate goal.

Of course the gun will move, how could it not?
The goal isn't even minimal movement...although, less is better.

The goal of optimal recoil management is to have the sights return to the original POA without the need of additional correction. As the sights return, all you have to do is add a bit of pressure to the trigger to release the next shot. It isn't about bringing the sights back onto target as much as it is allowing them to return onto target...that was the quantum leap in accurate splits that came with the replacement of the Weaver with the Modified Isosceles grip.

By Dry Firing the optimal grip along with the optimal arm geometry and tension (or lack thereof), adding the recoil of Live Fire shouldn't have any effect (on grip and trigger) but will allow timing your parallel reset of the trigger with the muzzle flip and prepping the trigger before the sights return to your POA.

Three questions:
Are you resetting your trigger in series or parallel?
Are you prepping your trigger prior to your sights returning?
Are you utilizing the Modern Isosceles grip?
 
Since "reset of the trigger" is part of #40 post then NRA Shooting Illustrated December 2018 issue article (Shooting to Reset To feel or not to feel, that is the question. By Bryce M. Towsley) Thirteen experienced shooters render opinions staring with Bruce Piatt and ending with George Harris.
 
Since "reset of the trigger" is part of #40 post
I refer to resetting the trigger, which you have to do to fire the next shot, as opposed to that article's discussion of the importance of "feeling" the reset.

Whether one should feel the reset...of even try to feel the reset...of the trigger a completely different subject of discussion. It is also highly dependent on where the shooter is in their progression of trigger management technique.
 
I know that I don’t consciously think about or feel trigger reset. I think that’s something people only have to focus on if they’ve been trained to “pin” the trigger.
 
I would conjecture that nobody who has significant experience playing video games or double-clicking a mouse has to consciously manage reset.

For that matter, drummers don’t have to consciously think about lifting the drumstick after playing a stroke. They think about making the next stroke.... not recovering from the last one.

I think pretty much everyone gets resetting the trigger naturally and only has some issue with it because they got taught something unnatural.
 
I think pretty much everyone gets resetting the trigger naturally and only has some issue with it because they got taught something unnatural.
I used to think that also, but ran into a large number of clients who trapped/pinned the trigger until the sights returned onto target...commonly called resetting in series.

I finally discovered the root of this practice when I took an Appleseed class. (I used to shoot Small Bore on my high school rifle team and had forgotten the technique when I transitioned to handguns)
 
Having an outdoor range at home I don't shoot at indoor ranges. When the weather is too bad outside dry firing is certainly a lot better than watching TV. A good laser cartridge makes it more worthwhile and enjoyable.
 
You're looking at a skewed result and making a statement based on a lack of understanding of the ultimate goal.

Of course the gun will move, how could it not?
The goal isn't even minimal movement...although, less is better.

The goal of optimal recoil management is to have the sights return to the original POA without the need of additional correction. As the sights return, all you have to do is add a bit of pressure to the trigger to release the next shot. It isn't about bringing the sights back onto target as much as it is allowing them to return onto target...that was the quantum leap in accurate splits that came with the replacement of the Weaver with the Modified Isosceles grip.

By Dry Firing the optimal grip along with the optimal arm geometry and tension (or lack thereof), adding the recoil of Live Fire shouldn't have any effect (on grip and trigger) but will allow timing your parallel reset of the trigger with the muzzle flip and prepping the trigger before the sights return to your POA.

Three questions:
Are you resetting your trigger in series or parallel?
Are you prepping your trigger prior to your sights returning?
Are you utilizing the Modern Isosceles grip?



I reset as the gun recoils.

Yes.

Yes.
 
I reset as the gun recoils.

Yes.

Yes.
Then how could the recoil affect how you Dry Fire other than allowing you to reset and prep the trigger in parallel to the movement of the slide?

When the sights return onto target, your grip is the same as before and so is the trigger press. All that is added is the vertical movement, which you don't practice during Dry Fire
 
See prior post about blinking. That’s one way dry fire can be “totally different” from live fire. The other way is related to grip. If ones grip isn’t very firmly welded to the gun, then live fire will make the gun squirm around in one’s hands. If one is struggling with that in live fire, it won’t get better in dry fire UNLESS the dry fire is being used to focus on the grip.
 
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