.Gov instructions on how to destroy your private property...

John_R said:

And what the government has. Government always exempts itself.

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Some might even say that government and criminals are part of the same group.

OARNGESI said:

I wonder if this deters future panic buying knowing you may pay 400 for a 100 item you later have to destroy with no compensation

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No, it will encourage panic buying. People panic buy when they are convinced that the item will soon not be available. Phase I is to panic buy in the window while the item is still legally available, and then Phase II is when the buyers don't destroy it or turn it in. The question presupposes that all people are scrupulously law abiding. That's clearly not the case when it comes to guns.

Bump stocks may not be a good example of this, since there was a limited demand for them before the controversy arose. But just wait until AR-15's are seriously threatened. It will be the mother of all panic buys.

Well, I won't divest myself of my interests in anticipation of oppression.

I am not one to advocate criminality, however, it would seem I find myself "outlaw".
While it is no bump stock, I was born with a thumb. I will not be cutting my thumb off, even if it can simulate automatic fire.

I will use my thumb any way I see fit. Including using it along side my nose at the "Authorities" who so blithely decided that my rights no longer needed to be protected.



They may not be worth much in a few months, but I have coveted lesser things to a greater degree. More and more Freedom is becoming one of these things...

AlexanderA said:

A more fruitful ground will be that it's an unconstitutional "taking" without compensation. Judges are more attuned to the 5th Amendment than to the 2nd Amendment anyway. Even the ACLU will support the 5th Amendment while probably not the 2nd.

One of the reasons why the "taking" argument has added weight is that bump stock owners bought the devices in good faith,"detrimentally relying" on the prior rulings of the ATF that they were legal. Now they're being penalized by that same agency, in a classic example of "bad faith."

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One of those government lawyers might argue that they aren't "taking" anything for "public use."
The relevant line in the 5th says "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
They don't want it, they are just saying you can't keep it, not in working condition, anyhow.

Hey, it is the same sort of nitpicking and parsing of the language that got them allowed (temporarily) in the first place.

Jim Watson said:

One of those government lawyers might argue that they aren't "taking" anything for "public use."
The relevant line in the 5th says "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."
They don't want it, they are just saying you can't keep it, not in working condition, anyhow.

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There are cases that have held that if an item is made useless for its intended purpose, because of government regulation, that's tantamount to a "taking." This is precisely the issue that will have to be thrashed out in the courts.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that it is NOT the ATF but the DOJ that has created this change in regulation. ATF ruled twice that bump stocks were lawful. The ATF is providing destruction instructions as a technical matter. At any rate, this will be prime material for a legal fight soon enough, possibly touching the NFA and the fact that since '86 machine guns have been prohibited based on non-payment of a tax that the citizen may not pay on new weapons.

I guess if anyone has one and intends to follow the law re: destruction, they should wait until the last day to see if there are any last minute appeals granted.

Yes. Kind of a conundrum. Let's say you keep your bump stock in hopes that the ban is overturned. And that it eventually is, a few years and a good many dollars of lawyer bills down the road. But you have been illegal since March. They are not going to cut you any slack if it comes to their attention just because the ban is wending its way through the courts. And if you junk your bump stock and the ban is overturned, they are not going to give you a new one.

I really doubt they’ll overturn it after the deadline expires and I also doubt anyone will fight it with enough influence to accomplish anything the nra and trump a supposedly 2a friendly pres gave us this. Ironically it probably would have never happened if Hillary or a dem had gotten the office because with trump in office many let down there guard and this is what we get. I honestly think the only reason for this is so trump can say he’s the only president in 25 years to do anything to combat gun violence we were sold out for political gain

Also the Vegas shooter had enough time and resources where he could have easily purchased legal full auto weapons to carry out his attacks.

It’s been said before, Elections have consequences.

Hopefully the courts will be used to ensure every citizen just compensation for their property as it should be.
In all honesty I thought bump stocks did more harm to the 2nd A than anything else. It was a total crock and a way of modifying a firearm to shoot full auto, aka mimic full auto. Anyone on the fence took one look at that and said,"Those guys are full of S. That's a machine gun." Kinda hard to defend. I KNOW and agree we shouldn't have to, but that's not the world we're in.

Also the Vegas shooter had enough time and resources where he could have easily purchased legal full auto weapons to carry out his attacks.

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The guy had a Cirrus SR20, if he crashed it into the crowd of over 22,000 attendees, he would have killed a lot more people.

No need to fool ourselves into thinking we can stop people from carrying out illegal acts by making more things illegal.

We can’t even get people to follow the laws we already have...for that matter can’t even get agencies to enforce all of them either.

How does the ATF know who owns bump stocks? Did they force retailers to hand over customer lists?

John_R said:

How does the ATF know who owns bump stocks? Did they force retailers to hand over customer lists?

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If it sits in a closet forever they don't really care unless it is found during a raid.

They will care about the ones people will be trying to sell. For instance, you buy one on Gunbroker, there is a record of the buyer.

ATF won't have to go far to stop people from selling them. Bust one or two people on Armslist, at a Gunshow etc.... and make them an example.

And if someone keeps one in the closet, then shoots up another crowd with one, oh well. The law is completely f$&@“ing useless.

If we got rid of all useless laws, that would leave us with very few. Kind of like locks only keeping honest people out.

My Point exactly.

Speedo66 said:

I guess if anyone has one and intends to follow the law re: destruction, they should wait until the last day to see if there are any last minute appeals granted.

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If the lawsuits are going to go anywhere there will likely be an injunction of some sort issued preventing the rule from taking effect until after the trial ruling. So yes if you have one then don't chop it up just yet. The clock isn't even ticking yet because the rule hasn't been officially published.

FROGO207 said:

I had to check them all out. I did not know there were so may different ways to accomplish this action available for purchase.

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Same here, I didn't realize there were that any manufacturers of the device

Imagine the reaction if the object that has to be destroyed were different; cell phones, vehicles that don't meet emissions standards, tobacco products, prescription opiates............

NO I am not going to cut off my belt loops, throw away all my rubber bands and balls of string------Now wait a minute, this whole thing is so STUPID!!!!

John_R said:

The law is completely f$&@“ing useless.

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It makes some people feel like they did something to prevent another tragedy. In reality they did nothing good at all. I’m sad.

Fine Figure of a Man said:

Imagine the reaction if the object that has to be destroyed were different; cell phones, vehicles that don't meet emissions standards, tobacco products, prescription opiates............

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Weird analogy.

Cell phones used countless times every day to make peoples lives better. At least my phone makes my life easier. But I don’t talk on it while I’m driving, so I hope I am not making your drive to work any longer.

Emission standards, they tried annual testing here and found out that most cars passed and the few that didn’t, weren’t worth the cost of the program. They dropped the program after a few years.

Tobacco products, I personally don’t get why anyone would use tobacco. Do you think cancer is fake news? I do get that it isn’t anyone’s business but yours.

Prescription opiates, in my state they lawmakers passed new regulations on pain killers. I have no idea if they are working, but there is starting to be a lot of pushback. It seems like when people are in pain and can’t get their medications they tend to look to illegal means or suicide. OK, there might be a lesson here. Lawmakers are convinced there is a new crisis. They feel that they must do something. They screw it all up and make peoples lives worse.




I’m not sure how any of this relates to bump stocks. I am also not sure how banning bump stocks makes any one any safer.

Demi-human said:

More Humans are killed by cars, where do I find the red line diagram to cut up a Buick Lucerne?

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I live in FL, so the odds of being killed by a snowbird driving a Buick Lucerne are far greater than any firearm.