"Pre-Ban" Russian AK-47 - Good deal or No?

Seems sensible to me. Get a rifle you like and be happy! Hope the (retro) build comes together well.

<*(((>< said:

Well I picked it up today, stripped all the cheap furniture off of it (AR adjustable type stock, quad rail and pistol grip). Going to buy some nice Russian red wood when I find some. Detail stripped it and everything looks great, doesn’t appear to have been shot much. The rivets are all tight, the trunnions show very little wear and the tail of the bolt is shined but now deformation.

It didn’t come with the forearm wood metal end plates as it had a quad rail on it and it seems all the furniture kits do not come with them. Where does one find the end plates that attach to the gas tube for the top forearm and the end plates for the bottom forearm?

Has anyone removed a pinned muzzle treatment before. Would like to get it back to having a compensator on it as well. It’ll be a project of aesthetics and some function. Want to find some deep Combloc red laminate furniture for it, I’m sure I’ll pay a pretty penny but it’ll be my one AK so might as well do it right.

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And you are familiar with 922R correct?

<*(((><: Excellent points you made about the govt.

If we ever hear about the ATF--hasn't yet happened--visiting our large private gun club, in order to ask people about parts' compliance (it is difficult to determine-even with it disassembled), I'll then know that they might be willing to spend a lot of money in court because of a butt stock on a MAK 90--- Not being a thumb hole stock. ....beyond insane....

Life is too short to worry about something for which nobody has been prosecuted as an isolated charge--unless you plan to rob a bank beforehand, or steal a car.
In the plainest English, commit a real felony and this other 922r "chickenfeed" might matter, bit is still secondary.

Walkalong said:

No AK is worth $800 to me. For whatever reason after the craziness ARs came down but AKs have not. They are still cheap to make.

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Key words there being to you. To me I would take a 1000 AK semi over an AR semi. No one can say that A foreign made AK isn't likely to run fantastic with cheap milsurp mags, cheap ammo, and no one can say that a good AK isn't accurate enough to be effective.
In an unexpected situation, somebody throws you a no name mag with no name ammo in it, odds are way in the favor of the AK that it would actually work with that stuff.
I might be different from you.
But the fact that AK's, especially some models, have gained value, shows their inherent worth as viewed by the owners.

<*(((>< said:

Yes, hence the previous post as to how many parts does the piston and carrier add to. I know that I must be under 10 foreign parts according to the list posted on the first page. Not trying to be rude but it seems you may have missed the first page in this dicussion. Or if I’m missing something with the 922R please enlighten me as I am far from an expert on such things.

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Actually you don't have to be under 10 foreign parts.
But I am glad for your sake it was brought up.

<*(((>< said:

Well I’ve been under the impression that according to 922r as defined under US Code - Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44 that if one is importing/assembling/modifying a semiautomatic rifle or shotgun from foreign parts it must contain less than 10 of the following foreign made parts:

1. Frame, receiver, receiver casting, forging or stamping
2. Barrel
3. Barrel extension
4. Operating rod
5. Gas piston
6. Forearm or handguard
7. Mounting blocks (trunion)
8. Muzzle attachment
9. Bolt
10. Bolt carrier
11. Trigger
12. Trigger housing
13. Hammer
14. Sear
15. Disconnector
16. Buttstock
17. Pistol grip
18. Magazine body
19. Follower
20. Floorplate

And to gain compliance one can source US made parts for replacement to get under 10.

After replacing the Tapco crap on the firearm with Russian hand guards and buttstock, and threading the muzzle for a compensator/flash hider, I'll be at 8-9 depending on how one looks at whether or not on an AK if the 'Gas Piston' and 'Operating Rod' are two individual pieces of the compliance list. I've bolded the foreign made items it will include on it's completion.

Am I wrong?

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I think so.

It's "no more than 10" foreign parts, not "under 10" as you said. That as I read the law.

mshootnit said:

It's "no more than 10" foreign parts, not "under 10" as you said. That as I read the law.

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congrats on the AK though.

I didn't really care to get down this rabbit hole. But I have even seen rifles for sale that were in no way 922 r compliant.

<*(((>< said:

I see them all the time, good for them. But I’m not willing to get pinched and lose all my rights by not replacing a few parts. The parts I’ll be replacing will be improvements anyways.

I know what you are saying but this carries the same potential ramifications as running afoul with an NFA item. Just because “they” are not looking at them currently doesn’t mean given a certain situation they deem it useful to throw the book at a person.

I’m actually surprised to find that several members are ok not complying with federal law, but I’ve been surprised quite a bit this week on this forum.

I don’t care for these laws in the least, and feel they should be fought tooth and nail by our lobbying groups and legislators. But the law is the law and until “we” stop compromising “we” will have more and more of these draconian laws to jump through.

As a husband and father of three, I don’t feel it necessary to poke the bear on this matter.

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actually it has been awhile since I read the law and am surprised to see some new stuff in there.

mshootnit / <*(((>< : I stand corrected, but simply owning a rifle with the wrong parts count is Not a "violation".
A published ATF letter now on a very specific AK-47 forum link at "AKfiles" might be of interest.

A letter was sent by an AK owner to the ATF requesting clarification, and both the letter and ATF response seems to have a link via FAL Files.
>> " AKfiles", "AK-47" forum, "922R" topic right now. Remark #75, posted by "4mula" has the link to the short letters.<<

The problem (for the govt.) appears to be to determine Who substituted a part----which I now realize can be considered "assembly", at least in the opinion of that specific agent who responded.
Nobody can prove which previous owner swapped a stock, or substituted a larger magazine in a MAK 90 or Unconverted Saiga etc.

The ATF agent who responded said that the burden of proof is on the US govt,. but offered no idea as to how they would determine which guy swapped one or two parts.
They are very understaffed and 'might' be interested in gang members' possible select fire guns or sawed-off short barrels. Maybe the ATF simply prefers looking for a MAK 90 missing its original thumbhole stock...… . Possibly 5,000 of these floating around.

***The agent stated that mere "possession" of a gun with swapped parts is not a crime.***
If three people owned a rifle before we buy it and is not 'in compliance' with 922r (or 925), how does the govt. prove which person changed a part? Is it still something worth worrying about, especially when the language about which parts allow compliance is not always easy to determine?

I'm a bit concerned that one day any of us could develop Parkinson's, Alzheimers etc, or be killed by a texting young driver. Not which gun parts are stamped "Made in the US".....come on..... If the anxiety is so serious, find a machine which can stamp or mark your parts "Made in the USA".

So is it a converted Saiga? As I recall CAA (Command Arms & Accessories) was selling converted Saigas. They at one time had a deal with Kalashnikov Concern (Izhmash) to sell imported AKs under the Alfa name. That plan died because of the sanctions.

Count the US parts, and the headache will go away.
ie............ on my WASR-10/63 (AKM):

Fire Control Group = 3 US parts
Pistol Grip = 1 US part
Muzzle Device = 1 US part

This AK came from Century Arms International with 1 Romanian 30 rds magazine.

ETA_ If you needed more US parts, you can add a Tapco Mag(3 US parts) or a US made stock/hand guard set (2 US parts) .............

FL-NC said:

To me, AK's of any origin will always be $300 rifles. Just not my cup of tea, esp. when a good AR can be had for $500 or even less. $850 could get one a decent AR AND optic.

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IMO, to collect, pre-ban would be OK, but to shoot, I would go with whats on the market today. The whole
point of an AKM is it's an inexpensive, lightweight, almost expendable shooter.

This advice, and $2.79 will almost buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.