New Cartridge/Pistol Idea -- "6.8mm Kel-Tec"

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6.8KT

6.8KT

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*disclaimer* I am in no way affiliated with KT.

What do you guys think of this idea?
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<*(((>< said:
Says the member with one post and a name "6.8KT"

Drive-by
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Why would I lie?
I'm just looking for feedback on my idea.
I'm going to pitch it to Kel-Tec; but I don't expect much more than a friendly reply from them saying "We're not interested, but thanks."
 
Varminterror said:
Have you ran the Quickload performance projections?
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No I haven't. I wasn't even aware of it, but I just looked it up. Unfortunately, it's not free software.
On top of that, I've never reloaded in my life; so I'd be out of my depth.
But if anyone thinks I might be onto something, and knows more than me, and has the software... please run some numbers!
 
A European company was showing a concept prototype similar to your concept at SHOT in 2010. It garnered very little interest, sadly. Part of the problem is that introducing a new cartridge is always an uphill battle, and acceptance is often slow because people don't want to be left with an 'orphan' gun/cartridge if it doesn't pan out.
 
I tend to think the development of a new cartridge should be any gun company’s last resort.

New defensive Cartridge development has a history of producing expensive and sometimes unobtainable ammunition and guns that sit on shelves for years.

I took a tragic massacre to put the 5.7x28 on the radar.

Why 6.8? Is that a width that can maximize capacity in a gun such as the PF9?
 
Texas10mm said:
I don't think your proposed ballistics are going to work out.
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Ah... don’t ruin it for him... he was looking to convince a novelty company into developing a SAAMI cartridge based on some Visio mock up... I was hoping he’d at least go down some of the most basic wildcatter steps to assess potential performance of the design... give a man vs. teach a man, as it were... ruins the fun if you point out there aren’t any fish in the bathtub before they even get started!
 
A related issue is the cost/benefit analysis. Analysis of real-world shooting (with handguns) shows a sharp drop in effectiveness when you go from a 9mm/.38 caliber bullet to a .22/.25/.32 caliber bullet at handgun velocities and energy (The data did not include magnum .32 calibers; insufficient data.) No, we don't know why. So the potential gain of a couple of extra rounds in the magazine has to be balanced against the very real possibility of a significant drop in real-world performance.

Also- the choice of 6.8mm specifically is almost a deal-killer on the face of it; you not only have to make a new cartridge, but you would need a complete new line of bullets to fire from it. It would be hugely more likely to succeed in .32 caliber, where there are already a wide variety of bullets available to load in the cartridge, and you will not really lose anything in magazine capacity. I was actually thinking about a similar concept called.32 Super Auto- a straight-walled 7.65x19mm. My thought was to take advantage of bullets designed for .32 H&R Magnum and .327 Federal Magnum.
 
Michael Tinker Pearce said:
A related issue is the cost/benefit analysis. Analysis of real-world shooting (with handguns) shows a sharp drop in effectiveness when you go from a 9mm/.38 caliber bullet to a .22/.25/.32 caliber bullet at handgun velocities and energy (The data did not include magnum .32 calibers; insufficient data.) No, we don't know why. So the potential gain of a couple of extra rounds in the magazine has to be balanced against the very real possibility of a significant drop in real-world performance.

Also- the choice of 6.8mm specifically is almost a deal-killer on the face of it; you not only have to make a new cartridge, but you would need a complete new line of bullets to fire from it. It would be hugely more likely to succeed in .32 caliber, where there are already a wide variety of bullets available to load in the cartridge, and you will not really lose anything in magazine capacity. I was actually thinking about a similar concept called.32 Super Auto- a straight-walled 7.65x19mm. My thought was to take advantage of bullets designed for .32 H&R Magnum and .327 Federal Magnum.
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You're right about stopping power. I did look at that data. It starts to cross below the 50% threshhold of "one shot stops" with non-expanding .38spl rounds. Nevertheless, people still do carry the lesser calibers because of the convenience pocket carry. Given that, I figure a few extra rounds in the magazine is a step up.

Although there are 6.8mm bullets out there, and even some in the 85 grain variety, they're all spitzer-type rounds for the Remington SPC rifle cartridge. It gets even worse though, there's no brass out there for my proposed cartridge. So, new bullets and new brass, too. But still, all it takes is one manufacturer to get on board and start cranking these out to get the ball rolling.

The idea of a magnum .25 or .32 cartridge is what got me thinking along these lines. So then I took a close look at this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_handgun_cartridges ...
I sort of settled around the ideal of something like 6.5mm Bergmann and 7mm Penna ... Then I figured, heck, the military is going 6.8mm, so why not that? Piggyback on all the hype that's sure to follow for that caliber (even if the only similarity is bore size.)
 
Varminterror said:
Ah... don’t ruin it for him... he was looking to convince a novelty company into developing a SAAMI cartridge based on some Visio mock up... I was hoping he’d at least go down some of the most basic wildcatter steps to assess potential performance of the design... give a man vs. teach a man, as it were... ruins the fun if you point out there aren’t any fish in the bathtub before they even get started!
Click to expand...

I'm not a handloader, so that's out; but I did run as many free online calculators as I could find. I did put a modicum of thought into it.
 
earlthegoat2 said:
I tend to think the development of a new cartridge should be any gun company’s last resort.

New defensive Cartridge development has a history of producing expensive and sometimes unobtainable ammunition and guns that sit on shelves for years.

I took a tragic massacre to put the 5.7x28 on the radar.

Why 6.8? Is that a width that can maximize capacity in a gun such as the PF9?
Click to expand...
Michael Tinker Pearce said:
A European company was showing a concept prototype similar to your concept at SHOT in 2010. It garnered very little interest, sadly. Part of the problem is that introducing a new cartridge is always an uphill battle, and acceptance is often slow because people don't want to be left with an 'orphan' gun/cartridge if it doesn't pan out.
Click to expand...

Of course, and for that reason I realize it's a nonstarter.
But still, I feel there is a niche here that's unfilled. There is demand for this sort of thing.
Take a Glock 42 for example, but instead of carrying 6+1 .380ACP (a round which only penetrates 8 inches)... Imagine it carried 10+1 of 6.8mm with equal energy to the .380ACP, but would nearly go through-and-through the perp, and would easily penetrate a car door or windshield.
 
Texas10mm said:
I don't think your proposed ballistics are going to work out.
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This is where I was hoping someone here could help out.
Would 3-5 grains of charge fit in the case with a 9mm length bullet/case (just narrowed to 6.8mm), and would it propel an 85 grain projectile ~1,000 fps?
Basically I was hoping for help fleshing out the loading specs, refining the dimensions of projectile weight and length, figuring pressures and velocities, etc.
 
Let's consider what made the Sig P365 basically THE gun of 2018: a couple extra rounds in the magazine.
All I'm trying to do is essentially the same thing with .380ACP, but by "stretching out" the short, fat round to the length of 9mm, but with a diameter that allows for 2 or 4 more rounds in the mag.
 
460Shooter said:
Honestly I think there are plenty of good cartridges out there to choose from.

This would be an uphill battle to nowhere at best.
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But which one gives me 10 rounds in an LCP-sized gun, but which isn't too weak like .22LR, .25ACP, or .32ACP?

That's all I'm trying to do here: make the ultimate pocket gun. And while sure, there are some pocket 9mms, and some even hold 10 rounds (Sig, Sccy)... they're big and bulky for that purpose, which is why so many opt for the smaller calibers.
 
.327 Federal Magnum filled a hole that existed for revolvers, and people clamor for it because of the +1 capacity and less blast and recoil relative to .357mag.

There is definitely a glaring hole between .25/.32 ACP and .380/9mm in terms of capacity and power ... but nobody wants to take the initiative to start filling it.

Let's fill this hole.
 
Vern Humphrey said:
The auto pistol version of the .327 Mag would be the 7.63 X 25 Mauser or Tokarev. It drives an 85-86 grain bullet to between 1,400 and 1,500 fps..
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That's too hot though. Imagine firing the P3AT with a same-weight projectile going 1,500fps instead of 1,000fps. People already complain about the sharp recoil at 1,000fps. Plus the gun would problably blow up.

Also, going from ~.32 caliber to .277 allows for another round or two in the magazine. I have a real hard-on for capacity; and I know I'm not alone, which is why the P365 was such a big hit.
 
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