What would be better overall for my needs - Dillon 550 or 650?

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CMV

CMV

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Currently I use a Lee classic turret. Has been a great press and am happy with it. Not even going to put in the standard Lee disclaimer "for the money" - I'm happy with its performance overall and would be if it cost twice as much.

I load in batches, typically 1,000 to 1,500 rds at a time (and that time might be a little here & there over a week). But my process is doing a decent amount off-press. In general it's:

1. decap with universal decap die
2. clean (either tumble or hot soapy water & dry)
3. resize
4. trim (rifle), chamfer, debur
5. quick clean to get case lube & trim shavings gone
6. Prime with Lee Hand prime - usually sitting on couch watching tv
7. Then load so I'm using 2 stations, 3 if FCD.

So I auto-index going from powder drop to seating to FCD (if using), then just twist the turret back to powder station when removing the finished round.

Doing it this way, my pace is typically 200-250 rds per hour. Since I'm doing so much offline/as prep work, it's really much lower. But primed ready to load cases, say 225/hr.

I only do 3 calibers in that volume - 9mm, .45ACP, & .223. Everything else is smaller batches and I will keep the LCT press for those. Possibly .45ACP could stay on the LCT too since I shoot a little less of it.

So....I'm going through ammo a little faster lately. Shooting more in general, sharing a little ammo when various church members come out to shoot & realize the 2 boxes of ammo they brought wasn't enough or whatever.

Also, when I got into reloading I thought it would be a hobby I enjoyed. And to some extent it is. But large batches of these 3 calibers, just churning out generic range ammo, it isn't recreational. More like a chore that I do so I can shoot a lot more for same amount of money. Lots of benefits too and I wouldn't give up reloading (although I do buy lots of 9mm when I find it around 14¢ / rd - I'm at 11¢ reloading so $30/case isn't much incentive to reload).

So all that to ask....if I want to load appx 15k/yr of those 3 calibers (combined, not 45k rds total) or about 1500 every 5 weeks, would a 550 or 650 be the better choice? I would want to move to priming on the press and eliminate much of my offline pre-processing.

Is it reasonable to clean the brass, then decap, prime, size, and load all at once with either?

How do you handle stuff like .223 where some will need trimmed? Seems like it's still a multi-step batch process - clean & resize the batch, then measure & trim as needed, then continue on. If that's the case, doesn't seem like it would be much faster than what I'm doing now other than the time saved priming on press - which I probably could be doing today, just never have.

What's a realistic case/hr rate with either one?

Case and bullet feeders necessary or just one? Seems one hand would be free to deal with one or the other so both maybe not needed?

Sorry for super long post with multiple questions. I watch various videos of both, and both seem pretty slick. It seems like the 550 proponents biggest pros are it costs less and no auto-index so you can single stage. Since I'll be keeping the LCT in service, I don't care about the single stage piece. And don't really know how to compare costs since not sure what all is needed with both to setup for those 3 calibers and what optional stuff is needed with on or the other.
 
Either will do well for you.

Your process now:

1. decap with universal decap die
2. clean (either tumble or hot soapy water & dry)
3. resize
4. trim (rifle), chamfer, debur
5. quick clean to get case lube & trim shavings gone
6. Prime with Lee Hand prime - usually sitting on couch watching tv
7. Then load so I'm using 2 stations, 3 if FCD.

Mine - Pistol (straight wall cases)

1 - decap
2 - clean with stainless pins in Frankford Arsenal tumbler
3 - size, prime, powder, seat bullet, crimp, and enjoy!

550B will handle 300 per hour, easily. 450 to 500 when you are ready to keep the beast fed.
650 will handle 500 to 900 per hour, again, mostly depending on you and feeding the beast.

I use Royal Case & Die lube. Do not have to remove this lube from cases after forming. Very little is used when sizing.
 
PS - I keep rifle brass segregated in batches/# of loads and to keep track if case prep is needed.
 
I don't ever see me advancing to the point of needing to load 1000/1500 per month of anything but it would be nice to be able to shoot that much. But I do enjoy using a progressive press which in my case has been a Pro1000 and now an Auto Breech Lock Pro for the 4th station. But this is what I've decided to do with the BLP and using my normal Lee 3-die sets. In the 3rd station I'm looking at adding a bullet feed die which I have already tried the Hornady and I just can't get it to feed reliably so next I'm going to try the RCBS feeder and hope that it works better. Then if it does and I like the process of using a bullet feeder I may add the Mr. Bullet Mini as it appears to be the best on the market and sadly costs more than I paid for the press!

You could set up the Dillon 550 the same way I would think or with the 650 you could add the bullet feeder and a powder cop/lockout die. Anyways that's something to ponder.
 
Keeping stuff separate would make life easy, but can’t do it. I have a private range so don’t allow steel/aluminum case or .380 (since separating 9mm & .380 is a fools errand ). But other people’s brass is always getting mixed in with mine. The plus side is it gives me a stream of new 1x brass trickling in the mix.

I’ll have to check out the royal case lube. I use unique now since it’s pretty simple. Just keep dabbing my fingertips in it and then just normal handling the brass gets enough on it. Guess I don’t have to remove it, just do since I know it’s there. It eventually dries kind of like wax. First one I tried was rcbs case lube2. Worked ok, but was messy and after sticking a case I used a little too much at times making lube dents. Bought the unique to try out and liked it so well I never experimented with others after that.
 
CMV: Are you stuck on the Idea of a Dillon? The reason I ask is because with my Hornady I can make 1500 rounds, play two games of Cribbage with my grandson and drink two pots of coffee in two hours. I don't know the availability of used LNL presses are in your area but you might be able to pick one up fairly cheap.
 
So you have a lot going on here with the decision process. Perhaps one way to see what you need is to use Dillon's "Custom" configuration (interactive purchasing guide) for each press and caliber? I did a similar exercise in November when I was trying to decide on a 550 or 650 for reloading 9mm, 45acp, and 223. If you go through that exercise you will see if you add the 650 casefeeder, you will need to purchase a casefeeder plate for each caliber. Plates cost, currently, $39.95 per plate. You may be able to get by without the casefeeder. I have seen some clever alternatives, such as adapting pvc tubing into a sort of magazine tube for cases. Things like Strongmounts, primer pickup tubes, and roller handles cost the same regardless of the press, as do die sets assuming you purchase dies from Dillon.

I made my decision based on "per caliber" cost and functionality. 550 caliber conversion kits cost less than 650 conversion kits. 49.95 for most 550 kits versus 81.95 for 650 kits. You will need a toolhead for each caliber and may want more depending on how you decide to process 223, etc. Toolheads are 4 bucks more expensive for a 650 than for a 550. I like quickchange assemblies with individual powder measures for each caliber. The 650 quickchange assemble is 4 bucks more than one of a 550. Using these observations, I concluded the per caliber cost different for a 550 versus that for a 650 is around 36 bucks per caliber without the 650 casefeeder, and 96 bucks per caliber if you use the 650 case feeder. 550s can also have casefeeders but that requires a caliber conversion for the case feeder that costs 26.95 per caliber and plates, just like the 650. About this time my head exploded as I concluded that if you ever want a casefeeder, the cheapest way to go is with the 650 as that 26.95 brings 550 conversion kits with a case feeder runs 76.90 per caliber.

Whew! I apologize, as I now have a splitting headache and realize that if you read the above paragraph, you probably have a headache too.

In short, if you ever think you want a casefeeder go with the 650 and be happy. There are other decision factors to consider, auto-index, extra port in the toolhead, etc but the anticipated desire for a case feeder was the major thing that I considered. You will have a higher production rate with the 650. You can easily get 300-400 per hour with a 550.
 
If you can swing the price of the 650 I would definitely reccomend getting a 650. For the volume you want to do you will definitely appreciate the 650. Your production rate will be MUCH higher than your turret press. The cost per caliber is higher for the 650 than the 550... but the cost per round between the 650 and 550 is almost non-existant if you load any volume of ammo at all. I.e. the cost of supplies will way out do the price of the press so if you divide the price of the press by the 100,000 round you load over a lifetime it is nearly nothing.

If the 650 is out of your budget the 550 is one heck of a good press!

I have loaded .308 ammo for target shooting on my Dillon 650. In one head I put an RCBS lube/depriming die and the Dillon case trimmer. The first trip through the press the brass is deprimed, trimmed and sized (Dillon case trimmer also sizes the case). Then I wash it in the ultrasonic cleaner and deburr, size the flash hole and inspect the brass. The second trip through the press the brass is primed, filled , bullet seated and crimped.

For blasting ammo, like 223, it just makes one trip through the press. deprime, size, prime, fill, seat bullet and crimp.

I really like the Lee collet crimp dies... they make a very consistant crimp.
 
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Personal opinion- I wouldn't buy a progressive it it didn't include an auto index. With everything going on in a progressive press, manual index scares me. Especially coming from a LCT where you are used to the auto index.

That would leave you with the 650.

I made this same decision a couple of years ago but I opted for a LnL but it doesn't sound like you are interested in that so I say go with a 650.
 
I can decapping size and trim 1000 an hour on a 650. The case feed is the biggest help.

It’s not as quick to convert as the 550 but with batches of 1000+, the tortoise can’t catch the hair, so to speak.
 
CAVEAT: I do not bulk load rifle ammo, all my rifle calibers are loaded single stage and shot carefully at targets; if I want to plink with a rifle, I take a .22. If I were shooting 3 Gun, it would be different, but I don't.

That said, it seems like people are doing a lot of double and triple handling with elaborate case cleaning and hand priming with a progressive on the bench.
My procedure for pistol ammo, 9mm P, .38 Special, and .45 ACP:
1. Sort brass. I have one of those slotted tray stacks that does a pretty good job. I even have the .380 vs 9mm plate. The worst aggravation is .45 Small Primer which has to be hand plucked out of the ACPs. (I know some people who like the small primer cases because they don't have to change primer feed or stock two sizes.)
2. Dry tumble in nuthull blasting media. I don't add polish, I don't need shiny as new cases, just clean to run through the dies smoothly.
3. Apply a LIGHT spritz of spray lube, currently using the Frankford stuff. LIGHT, so I don't have to clean it off later.
4. Load start to finish in progressive, .45s in S1050, 9mm and .38 in 550B.
5. Gauge, 100%. I shoot IDPA and USPSA, so I must be sure everything chambers freely. If for casual shooting or for target shooting with same lot number brass and high end bullets, you could probably get along without the gauge. I get few failures with the present setup and nearly all of those will plunk in a gun barrel and shoot for practice.
 
Hi...
I load a few different handgun calibers and decided that I needed a progressive press a few years ago(this was many years after a bad experience with a Lee Pro1000).
After quite a bit of agonizing over the choice between Dillon and Hornady, I chose a Hornady LnL.
After not using it for about 3 years due to serious health issues, I have finally got it up and running in .45ACP. I can easily load over a hundred rounds in 15 minutes.
I decided that I didn't want to mess with changing the set up, so I bought a second LnL for small primer loading. That press is set up for .357Mag and also cranks out about 100 rounds in the same amount of time.
I am well pleased with my Hornady units...I use a case feeder for .45ACP but haven't bought one yet for the second press.
I do have an automated bullet feeder but haven't set it up yet.

I just bought another shell plate to run 10mm on the LnL that is set up for large primer but haven't bought a powder measure for that caliber yet. I don't want to mess with changing powders and settings, so I am going to have dedicated measures for each caliber that I load on the LnLs.

I still load my .41Mag, .45Colt, .44Mag/Spl and .45AutoRim on my RockChucker, but will slowly move them to the large primer LnL as I acquire shell plates and powder measures for each caliber.

Having said all of that... I have been giving serious thought to acquiring a Dillon for loading 9mm...my son goes through thousands of rounds in that caliber every year. I would like to try one out and see if it is as much better than the Hornady units as all the experts seem to think. I see SDBs, 550s and 650s offered at local auctions pretty regularly, so that is probably the route I will take if I can get one a good price. If not, I will buy a new 650 before summer. The 650 is a bit expensive new but when I am done with it, it like all the rest of my hunting and shooting stuff, will be my son's. Also...he shoots a lot of .223 and .308, so a 650 would be a good upgrade for loading those calibers.
 
I'm an LCT/Dillon 650 combo guy. After training myself for years to rely on auto-advance on the LCT, I thought the manual advance of the 550 would be a safety issue for me, so I gave that very little consideration.

For straight-walled pistol cartridges (which is all I load on the 650 - I'm a much lower-volume rifle shooter), I dry tumble, throw the brass in the case feeder, and commence to cranking. I still manually place bullets on top, but will probably eventually add a bullet feeder. Nothing happens off the press.
 
When I was looking for a progressive press some years ago, I narrowed the field down to the 650 and the LnL AP because both had 5 stations. (I wound up getting the LnL AP because of the lower cost for caliber conversions.) I wanted a 5 station press so I could install a powder check die. I am personally not comfortable running a progressive without the powder check die. Once I get into a rhythm on the progress, my mind sometimes wanders and I am afraid I will miss an over or under charged case.
I also agree with the other posters that a case feeder is almost a must have on a progressive- it really speeds up the process and makes it much easier. I run the press with my right hand and feed bullets (one at a time) with my left.
 
DRAINSMITH said:
CMV: Are you stuck on the Idea of a Dillon? The reason I ask is because with my Hornady I can make 1500 rounds, play two games of Cribbage with my grandson and drink two pots of coffee in two hours. I don't know the availability of used LNL presses are in your area but you might be able to pick one up fairly cheap.
Click to expand...

I realize that you are the Hornady LnL Poster boy, but lets not mislead the OP:)

A stock LnL with no added automated gizmos is not gonna load anywhere near 1,500 in 2 hours or 750 an hour let alone play cribbage.:what:
 
I keep looking at Dillon but so far have stuck with my LCT. Always like to gather information from these threads. Thanks to all for the information.

Dave
 
I had two Hornady LnL AP presses a while back. Now I have two Dillon 650s, both with case feeders and could not be happier.

I spent as much time fiddling with the Hornady presses as I did loading on them.

Now I just load ammo.

1. Clean brass
2. Dump in case feeders and start cranking out rounds.

Shellsorter.com sells a set of trays for sorting brass. I recently picked up the .380 plate and it eliminates those pesky little buggers.
 
Rule3 said:
I realize that you are the Hornady LnL Poster boy, but lets not mislead the OP:)

A stock LnL with no added automated gizmos is not gonna load anywhere near 1,500 in 2 hours or 750 an hour let alone play cribbage.:what:
Click to expand...
First of all, let's get one thing straight: I am not the"Hornady LnL Poster boy" I am the "HORNADY LNL AMMO-PLANT POSTER BOY"
Second, let's analyze the stock Hornady vs the stock Dillon.
We will start with the 550.
1. The 550 cost more than the LNL.
2. The caliper change cost more on the 550.
3. The 550 is only a 4 station press where the LNL is a 5 station press.
4. Now, with the 550 you have to use your right hand to load the case, then your left hand to load the bullet then your right hand to pull the handle. With the LNL your right hand never leaves the handle the left hand you can grab a case and a bullet in one go and load then in one continuous movement.
Now, let's look at the 650.
1. The 650 cost a lot more than the LNL.
2. the 650 caliper change cost a lot more than the LNL.
3. Like the 550 the loading prosses is the right hand, left hand, right hand thing with the exception that the loading of the case is more difficult because of the position of where the case is loaded.
Now unless you are a professional juggler for your local circus. the Dillon has no chance of keeping up with the LNL.
Now, finally, my Hornady does have all the "automated gizmos". So the speed of my press is not to mislead the OP. It's just a fact.
 
Your volumes PER SESSION are the best indication of the correct machine for you.

Having owned both a 550 and 650, and I'm going to side with Jmorris on this one. Your volumes indicate an XL650 with Case Feeder. I would advise you to load 1000 rounds per session of a single caliber. Then come back the following week and load 1000 rounds of the next caliber. If you take your time, each of these loading sessions will take about 2 hours start to finish.


Things you need to know....
• The 650 has the best and most trouble-free primer feeding in the industry. You'll be so happy with the primer system that you'll quickly realize that hand primer insertion is totally unnecessary. Using the in-press primer insertion will compliment your entire loading process in ways you simply cannot envision now. Once you load on a 650 for a week it will be like a religious epiphany !! You'll be kicking yourself in the hind quarters for not making this move years ago.

• 1000 rounds per session will not tax the machine, but it may stress your back and shoulder. To counter this I highly suggest you purchase the Strong Mount and the Plastic Roller Handle. The Strong Mount greatly increases the strength of your bench mounting. The Roller Handle spreads the force over a larger area of your hand. Both work together to lower the possibility of repetitive motion issues.

• As was said, the 650 is more cumbersome with caliber conversions. That's why you want to finish with one caliber before converting. However, purchasing separate powder measures for each caliber will not save any great time. The largest time saver on the XL650 will be the purchase a second primer feed system for use with 45ACP, OR decide from the start to focus exclusively on 45ACP with small primers so that no primer size conversion is required.

• 40, 9mm, 38Spcl, 38 Super, and 357M all use one sorting disk inside the case feeder. You'll need a second disk with larger openings exclusively for 45ACP. No way around that $39 purchase.

Hope this helps.
 
DRAINSMITH said:
First of all, let's get one thing straight: I am not the"Hornady LnL Poster boy" I am the "HORNADY LNL AMMO-PLANT POSTER BOY"
Second, let's analyze the stock Hornady vs the stock Dillon.
We will start with the 550.
1. The 550 cost more than the LNL.
2. The caliper change cost more on the 550.
3. The 550 is only a 4 station press where the LNL is a 5 station press.
4. Now, with the 550 you have to use your right hand to load the case, then your left hand to load the bullet then your right hand to pull the handle. With the LNL your right hand never leaves the handle the left hand you can grab a case and a bullet in one go and load then in one continuous movement.
Now, let's look at the 650.
1. The 650 cost a lot more than the LNL.
2. the 650 caliper change cost a lot more than the LNL.
3. Like the 550 the loading prosses is the right hand, left hand, right hand thing with the exception that the loading of the case is more difficult because of the position of where the case is loaded.
Now unless you are a professional juggler for your local circus. the Dillon has no chance of keeping up with the LNL.
Now, finally, my Hornady does have all the "automated gizmos". So the speed of my press is not to mislead the OP. It's just a fact.
Click to expand...

Sorry, AMMO PLANT MAN

But the OP stated:

"So all that to ask....if I want to load appx 15k/yr of those 3 calibers (combined, not 45k rds total) or about 1500 every 5 weeks,"

The rest is irrelevant,, non sequiter:)
 
I didn't discount LnL due to dislike, just know nothing about it. All I really know (think I know....) about progressives is avoid the Lee, everyone seems to be very pleased with Dillon. I have a hodgepodge of stuff now, mostly Lee. But I couldn't care less what brand it is, as long as it works.

The 1500 rds every 5 weeks - that's an approximation, but basically if I did a session of 1500 of a single caliber every 5th week, I'd stay whole on everything. If I could do that in a few hours, would be great. As it is, I buy ammo to supplement & just shoot a little less. Or I'll shoot whatever I have the most of and not shoot any of a caliber i'm low on until I get around to a batch of it. So really, I want the capacity/ability to do sessions of around 1500 of a single caliber without that being a week long chore of part time work every evening. And I'd like it to not feel as much like a burden or "ugghhhh gotta load some more" which leads me to just order a case of Wolf gold .223 or Blazer brass 9mm.

The 650 has the best and most trouble-free primer feeding in the industry.
This is interesting. Watching some videos that forward push on the handle to seat the primers looks like it would be awkward or at a minimum take a little while to get used to.

I've also noticed watching videos of progressive presses in general, the people stand to operate them. Might be just easier to shoot a video that way. I sit now with the LCT. No reason I couldn't stand (other than laziness), but just wondered if that was necessary....or maybe I'm an oddball and everyone stands on any type of press other than me...
 
3. Like the 550 the loading prosses is the right hand, left hand, right hand thing with the exception that the loading of the case is more difficult because of the position of where the case is loaded.
Click to expand...

One reason the 650 costs more than the LNL is because the base machine comes with case feed. In that the tube and all of the devices it take to take a case from the tube and insert it into the shell plate is all there from the factory. Their optional “case feeder” is really just a collator or case feed feeder.

That’s also why the LNL case feed costs more than the Dillon because it’s the collator and all the other parts. Also why is doesn’t have as solid of a reputation as how well it works depends on how well it is installed.
 
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