with all these new colt mustang clones is there a .380 government clone out there?

I don't think so... and that's a shame. The .380 has become the de facto pocket pistol cartridge (for obvious reasons...) so I don't really know if there is even a market for a Gov't .380 redeux. I've got a stainless Gov't .380... it's a fine pistol and fun to shoot. Lack of a grip safety made me push to replace it as a carry piece, but it's a nice range pistol.

There's a Browning .380 that's 1911-ish. It's about 3/4 the size of a standard .45.

I have both a 380 Government Model and a Browning 1911-380. The Browning is noticeably larger. in these pictures the Browning has the "compact" barrel and slide.









At the same time, I am very happy to have the grip safety I had a major "oops" this morning. As I was putting my pants back on, after using the toilet, my suspender strap snagged the pistol. That pulled it out of the holster and tumbling toward the ground. I did watch it fall long enough to say "never try to catch a falling pistol" in my mind before it hit.

Now I do realize that the 380 Government is a series 80, thus it wouldn't fire in a case like that either; all the same I was glad for the additional grip safety.

Interestingly enough, at least to me, the way it landed was enough to release the thumb safety. This is the first time that anything like that has ever happened to me. With people singing the praises of passive retention, I have been trying that. I will say that this has me rethinking that idea and I may well go back to thumb break holsters.

The RIA "Baby Rock" might qualify.

I decided I wanted a Colt Government 380 and haunted Gunbroker for a month or two until I got a nice one for a little over $400, IIRC. That was about four years ago.

My LGS has had a RIA "Baby Rock" in the case the last few times I've visited. It's obviously larger than the Mustangs and Sigs. I'm guessing it's just a smidgen smaller than my Government 380, but I am not excellent at judging sizes from memory.

The full size Browning 1911-380 comes with a 4.25" barrel. It's 85% the size of a 1911.
Nice gun!
Here's mine but it is a limited Edition model but is the same size.


Here's a link with more info:
https://www.browning.com/products/f...roduction/black-label-1911-380-full-size.html

Those brownings are so nice looking. I hope they come out with an aluminum framed .380 sometime. I think they did have one for their 1911-22.

Kaybee said:

Those brownings are so nice looking. I hope they come out with an aluminum framed .380 sometime. I think they did have one for their 1911-22.

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They are aluminum frame.

mavracer said:

They are aluminum frame.

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No the slide of the 1911-380 is Stainless, the frame is Polymer.

mavracer

According to Browning's specifications the 1911-380 has an aluminum sub frame and slide rails with a composite material frame.

Check out the RIA Baby Rock. It looks and feels like a midget 1911 although a little larger than the Browning. All steel so it's fairly heavy but it's easy to rack and a soft shooter with a decent trigger.

Thanks doubleh. I left the "baby" part out of my post (since edited). That's the pistol I was talking about.

Here is my Colt Government. The OP could probably find one for a reasonable price on Gunbroker eventually, if they were patient.

Hasaf said:

Now I do realize that the 380 Government is a series 80, thus it wouldn't fire in a case like that either; all the same I was glad for the additional grip safety.

Interestingly enough, at least to me, the way it landed was enough to release the thumb safety.

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Another of the reasons I wanted to get away from carrying the Gov't .380 was the very weak spring detent on the thumb safety. I found it knocked off almost as much as on after carrying it for some period... not a good combo. Because of that, I started carrying it hammer down on a loaded chamber (Series 80) but doing draw and present drills I decided that wasn't a hot setup, either... and moved forward with finding a replacement.

Further... and I never really investigated this... how does a Series 80 lockwork work... without a grip safety? If the trigger actuates the safety... and something snags the trigger... it's all the same to the pistol, and it fires. I understand it may be a deterrent if the hammer pops off the sear, from a drop or other instance, but I'm not really worried so much about that.

Hasaf said:

No the slide of the 1911-380 is Stainless, the frame is Polymer.

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I guess I stand corrected, however it's not just polymer either, it's a composite and a good one too. I took mine apart and there is no flex to the dust cover and it's easily mistaken for aluminum.

I had a stainless one. Nice gun. It woud be perfect with an alloy frame and better sights.

AIM has turn in Beretta 84BB's for $360, nice gun, but not a 1911 clone.

mavracer

I guess I stand corrected, however it's not just polymer either, it's a composite and a good one too. I took mine apart and there is no flex to the dust cover and it's easily mistaken for aluminum.

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First time I saw one I thought it was aluminum too. Checking with Browning's website turned up the composite material information. Would love to have one to go with my Colt Mustang and SIG P238 but just a little too pricey for my budget.

...and the family photo...

The Kimber replaced the .380 for a bit, but ultimately they were both replaced by a Kahr 9mm.



Mine is a typical '80's era Colt pistol... that is to say the slide rattles on the frame and the rollmark is crooked, but it's a nice shooter.

doubleh said:

Check out the RIA Baby Rock. It looks and feels like a midget 1911 although a little larger than the Browning. All steel so it's fairly heavy but it's easy to rack and a soft shooter with a decent trigger.

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The Baby Rock quality can be hit and miss, I've had two. First one was an excellent shooter and very accurate. It had a 7# trigger pull initially, but I worked it over a bit and got it down to a clean, crisp 5 pounds. At the 200 round mark, the slide stop was peening the slide so bad that I sent it back to RI. They sent a new pistol in only two weeks. The new one had a terrible trigger, 10+ pounds and very gritty, so I immediately worked it over. Got it down to a clean, crisp 6 pound pull and took it to the range. Groups were terrible, to say the least, compared to the first one. Needless to say I was disappointed so, when I got home I slugged the barrel and measured it at .358". Since then I worked up some reloads using coated bullets and am getting acceptable accuracy but also had to make a new front sight to correct the high POI, no aftermarket sights available. Also, the slide stop on this one started hammering the slide like the first one did, so I decided to just reshape the stop and notch and live with it. If I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just buy a Browning.

Before I got my Browning, I had the opportunity to handle the: Browning, Llama 380, the Baby Rock, and my Colt 380 Government Model side by side (Handgun Haven in West Valley had all three and had no problem with me comparing to my Colt). As far as quality goes, the Llama and the Baby Rock were vastly below the Browning and the Colt.

It was obvious that the Baby Rock was a clone of the Llama, not the Colt or the Browning. Of course, the Colt was the forerunner to the entire generation of 1911 pattern Micro-380s. The Browning is different from all of them.

I remain satisfied with the Browning. I would like better aftermarket support and parts availability. I purchased the Compact Model and picked up a "full size" slide to tinker with.

The pictures I posted above were posted so people can see the difference between the M1911-A1, the Browning 1911-380 Compact, the Colt 380 Government Model, and the Kimber Micro (my representative of the current generation of 1911 pattern Micro-380s).

"I slugged the barrel and measured it at .358""

RIA does have some quality control issues with their guns. I have one of their compacts in 9mm and it had some issue right of of the box and I was never able to make contact with anyone at the company. It was cheaper to make the fix than to ship it to them if I had to pay shipping so I fixed myself. My barrel also slugged out at slightly less than .358. I did good on the BabyRock----so far. Time will tell on the slide stop.

Charlie98

Mine is a typical '80's era Colt pistol... that is to say the slide rattles on the frame and the rollmark is crooked, but it's a nice shooter.

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Back in those days you had to look over every Colt pistol very carefully to find one that was built and assembled properly!

Two that checked out perfectly from that time:

I guess to many if it looks like a 1911 it is one. Take the plastic and zamak, the aluminum and Star designed ignition system out (Not that there is anything wrong with it, but it's not 1911), the blowback operation of some look-a-likes and you're really left with either true 1911's or Llama .380's. There are no 1911 .380's with locked breech made in all steel.

Well, Llama's had exterior extractors, so even they fail to be true 1911 action.

I do admit to being very disappointed that RIA didn't follow up on their own media hype and come out with a locked breech Baby, such a shame, because Llama managed just that for many years. I never wanted a pistol so badly, and they dropped their best design just to get a "1/2" 1911 out into the marketplace. (I'm sure it's a fine blowback, for those who want a blowback that looks like a 1911).
Look at little NAA. It took them many years to finally get a top break Mini revolver out that they were satisfied with (The Ranger II) but they refused to deliver until they got the nuts and bolts right even under extreme market pressure.

Kudus to NAA!