Reloading belted rounds

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KYregular

KYregular

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I am looking at buying either a 300 win mag or a 300 wby and reloading for them. I have never reloaded belted ammo before, and to be honest, it concerns me a bit. Should I full length or neck size the brass? Any special dies that will handle the belt? Do you favor loading one over the other? Any input appreciated.
 
I just bought a used Win M-70 in 7mm Rem myself, no dies yet.

I’ll be watching to see what is different with reloading a belted case than regular rimless rifle cartridges myself...

Stay safe!
 
I have always understood that it is better to headspace off the shoulder instead of the belt. On my 1970's bolt action, I accomplished this by turning my FL sizing die down in minute increments until I could close (lock) my bolt action with only minimum resistance. I then loaded my magazine and function tested until I could cycle all rounds smoothly. My sizing die did not quite touch my shell holder when I had the case sized like I wanted it. There are much more precise processes now a days but back in the 70's this is what I did. I do not neck size anymore and especially for hunting.
 
I've loaded for a few belted magnums. I full length size and adjust the die so that the case head spaces off of the shoulder. I adjust my sizing die about like gojones describes except I watch the sized part of the case neck and adjust the die down until the sized part of the neck meets the shoulder plus a fraction of a turn more.Then I check to see if the bolt closes. Most 2 die sets should work fine.
 
The only issue I ever heard of with belted brass is the area at the belt cant be resized with regular dies. http://larrywillis.com/. offers a "special" body die to resize the area at the belt on cases. The $96.00 buy in price has always prevented me from getting one. My only belted magnum is 7mm Rem. I don't shoot it a lot, so I don't have any brass with more than a few reloads on them. I figured if I get to the point that the area at the belt becomes an issue I will just get new brass. Neck sizing has worked fine for me so far.
 
[email protected] said:
The only issue I ever heard of with belted brass is the area at the belt cant be resized with regular dies. http://larrywillis.com/. offers a "special" body die to resize the area at the belt on cases. The $96.00 buy in price has always prevented me from getting one. My only belted magnum is 7mm Rem. I don't shoot it a lot, so I don't have any brass with more than a few reloads on them. I figured if I get to the point that the area at the belt becomes an issue I will just get new brass. Neck sizing has worked fine for me so far.
Click to expand...
I kinda thought neck sizing would be fine, but always heard about a "bulge" just above the belt and thought that might create clambering issues.
 
Don't know what the issue is with belted cases? I load for a 7mm Rem mag using RCBS dies and never had a problem or give it a second thought. I do just bump the shoulder back about .005" with the RCBS FL sizing die. This is where the Hornady headspace gauge comes in great, measure a few fired cases and set the dies accordingly. I've got some brass with over 7 firings on it that still chambers fine, I find that the primer pocket gets loose on my 7mm brass before the necks split or any sign of case head separation, primer pockets will usually start to go around 5 to 6 firings with there going to get loose. My findings are with about any main brass manufacturer as I'm a brass scrounge and will shoot almost any brass I find.
 
I've always size them like any other bottle neck round, off the shoulder. You only need to push the shoulder back 0.001"-0.002" max for a bolt gun. My dies are RCBS 1973 vintage and never had a problem. I do have the RCBS Precision Mic in this caliber since I load for several guns. I do recommend using a good case lube though.
 
Muddydogs said:
Don't know what the issue is with belted cases? I load for a 7mm Rem mag using RCBS dies and never had a problem or give it a second thought. I do just bump the shoulder back about .005" with the RCBS FL sizing die. This is where the Hornady headspace gauge comes in great, measure a few fired cases and set the dies accordingly. I've got some brass with over 7 firings on it that still chambers fine, I find that the primer pocket gets loose on my 7mm brass before the necks split or any sign of case head separation, primer pockets will usually start to go around 5 to 6 firings with there going to get loose. My findings are with about any main brass manufacturer as I'm a brass scrounge and will shoot almost any brass I find.
Click to expand...

Pushing the shoulder back that far is just shortening your brass life. There is no need to go that far for any caliber. You only need 0.001-0.002" for a bolt gun and 0.002-0.003" for a simi-auto.
 
Headspacing off the shoulder or neck sizing, may leave the area in front of the belt unsupported in the chamber. On firing, maximum loads may produce a bulge. Then the Larry Willis die will be needed . See post 5.

Shoulder bump- Hunting rounds must always chamber freely. The standard RCBS Fl die will produce about .005" shoulder set back when contacting the shell holder. But do measure it.
This in turn, sizes a tiny bit more in front of the belt. The .005" stretch is not a problem. imo.

Having owned a 7 Rem mag and 300 Win mag for hunting, never a problem. Few rounds fired compared to target shooters. Sold both and still have the 30-06.
 
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Blue68f100 said:
Pushing the shoulder back that far is just shortening your brass life. There is no need to go that far for any caliber. You only need 0.001-0.002" for a bolt gun and 0.002-0.003" for a simi-auto.
Click to expand...

Ya well when you shoot various head stamps and actually measure things you find that not all head stamps resize the same so I guess my max is .005 and very's from .002 to .005. Don't see a reason to adjust the sizing die every time I change head stamps.

As for shortening brass life, like I stated in the same post the primer pockets get loose before case head separation or split necks. I never understood the whole annealing thing and why its a big deal for 90% of the shooters out there since in the 15 or so rifle calibers I load for I've never had a case head separation issue before the primer pocket gets loose. I have also never noticed a neck tension issue or it effecting accuracy from new cases to cases that have been reloaded 10 times.
 
I have had a 7mag since 1980, and I neck size since I only have 1 rifle in 7mag. Even if you FL size, the belt is not an issue (and really not necessary, but it is what it is)
 
I load for a .375 H&H, new brass gets full length sized. after that, I raise the sizer die up the width of a nickle. This sizes the neck enough to hold a bullet tight. I then make sure they all chamber. If they chamber, they get reloaded. They are only fired in 1 rifle.
 
Bump the shoulder 2thou off fired with a full length die and headspace off of the shoulder, just like anything else. Get a Larry Willis collet body sizer to cute the muffin top when it shows up. I’ve been down the neck size only road in the past, and 15yrs ago I would have said it was the only way, before I had compared results for myself - it doesn’t increase brass life any more than a minimal bump, and it doesn’t promote accuracy as well.
 
About 10 years ago I got the Larry Willis collet die. I had some Winchester brass that I bought new in the mid 70's. This die did straighten out the slight bulge just above the belt. It is expensive but works for all belted cases. At that time I bought the RCBS precision mic and actually found that my shoulder set back using the bolt closing method was only .002 thousands. These extra tools are expensive and probably not necessary but if you are serious about loading the belted magnums, it may be worth it. I found that neck sizing didn't increase the life of my brass and I strongly suspected that if made bullet run out worse.
 
243winxb said:
Headspacing off the shoulder or neck sizing, may leave the area in front of the belt unsupported in the chamber. On firing, maximum loads may produce a bulge. Then the Larry Willis die will be needed . See post 5.



Shoulder bump- Hunting rounds must always chamber freely. The standard RCBS Fl die will produce about .005" shoulder set back when contacting the shell holder. But do measure it.
This in turn, sizes a tiny bit more in front of the belt. The .005" stretch is not a problem. imo.

Having owned a 7 Rem mag and 300 Win mag for hunting, never a problem. Few rounds fired compared to target shooters. Sold both and still have the 30-06.
Click to expand...

Love my 06 as well. When loading for it I always headspace off the shoulder, and to be honest I don't even know what headspacing off the "belt" is referring to. Another reason I started this post to learn from. Thanks
 
gojones said:
About 10 years ago I got the Larry Willis collet die. I had some Winchester brass that I bought new in the mid 70's. This die did straighten out the slight bulge just above the belt. It is expensive but works for all belted cases. At that time I bought the RCBS precision mic and actually found that my shoulder set back using the bolt closing method was only .002 thousands. These extra tools are expensive and probably not necessary but if you are serious about loading the belted magnums, it may be worth it. I found that neck sizing didn't increase the life of my brass and I strongly suspected that if made bullet run out worse.
Click to expand...
Very good points. That collet size is not cheap, but worth it. If and when I get into loading belted rounds it's a must have to me. Thanks
 
I've had a 300 Weatherby MkV since the 80's. Love the rifle but with todays non-belted magnum rifles I wouldn't purchase a belted magnum again. Starting out reloading years ago for the 300 Wea. I made the mistake of relying on the belt for headspace. My Weatherby dies were sizing the shoulder back too far. After only 3 loads I was getting dangerous case stretching just in front of the belt. Expensive cases had to be scrapped for safety. Then later I learned about sizing so the cases headspace on the shoulder just like non-belted cases. Then my cases lasted a few more rounds. Just a note about 300 Wea. cases, Weatherby cases have more volume than Remington or Federal cases. You have to reduce powder charges using non Weatherby brass. My loads in Remington cases needs almost 2 grains less powder to equal velocity of Weatherby cases. I have seen no requirement for the collet die mentioned in my rifle reloading nor have I seen loose primer pockets in Weatherby brass shooting near maximum loads using Weatherby data. If you do buy a belted mag rifle definitely buy a tool to accurately measure shoulders when sizing and don't push shoulders back more than .002" to increase case life and prevent case separations. Not a good thing in a powerful rifle. Weatherby rifles are fine equipment and the ballistics are impressive. Just would not buy a belted magnum again.
 
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