Bolt-Rifle Action Lengths - Real Benefits of a "Short Action?"

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DougB

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I'm interested in a fairly compact, accurate bolt-action rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor. I would like around a 20" barrel in a medium/heavy contour. Fluted would be ideal, but seems rare. The Tikka T3x CTR looks like an excellent option for me. My concern is that I've read that Tikkas all have long actions that are blocked to handle shorter shorter cartridges. This bugs me, in that, if they were true short actions, the overall length of the rifle could be maybe 3/4" shorter or, conversely, I could have a little extra barrel length (giving a little better velocity) in the same length rifle. A shorter action would also reduce weight by a few ounces, while providing a stiffer action. There doesn't seem to be any benefit to having an unnecessarily long action other than to reduce manufacturing costs. I did read that some handloaders load cartridges longer than standard, and these may feed better in a longer action, but I have no interest in doing this.

However, in doing some online searches on this topic, I found that quite a few manufacturers really only have one action length, and also, that some true short actions are actually heavier than other manufacturers long actions. Does anyone have information on the actual lengths and weights of different actions and how they compare? Is there a true short-action rifle out there that would provide similar performance to the Tikka T3x CTR, while providing a shorter, lighter rifle? I know saving less than an inch of overall length and maybe 3-4 ounces may not seem like much, but it just bugs me to have a action significantly longer than needed for the cartridge. But maybe I'm over-thinking this.
 
i very much prefer the short action for some of the reasons you listed plus others, including typically available magazines and stocks
but given your choice of tikka, i don't know that it matters all that much
 
A "short" action will generally result in a receiver that is about 1 /2" shorter than a standard length action, ie 30-06 !ength.

I have heard many people regurgitate sound bites as to why that 1/2" is material. These range from "a short action receiver is stiffer" to "follow up shots are faster" to "it's an important weight savings".

Balderdash.

If the "short '" action is stiffer to a degree noticeable by any other than a handful of snipers and competitive shooters around the world, than you aren't comparing to a comparable quality longer action receiver. If you are one of a handful of snipers and competitive shooters around the world for whom an apples to apples comparison would yield an edge, you're off the hook.

If the difference of half an inch in bolt throw is material to you, then you really ought to be shooting a semi -auto. If you frequently hunt driven game and can take several in the same day and live in a jurisdiction where a semi-auto rifle is illegal, you're off the hook.

If the weight difference between the two receivers is sufficient to merit that as a major consideration, then you are doing stuff that requires you to be fit enough where that difference really won't matter, because you are in fact as fit as the butcher's dog. If it really does matter and you are headed up the mountain with a $5,000 carbon fiber barrel 4 lbs rifle, then you're off the hook.

In any other circumstance, you are either needlessly obsessing over nothing or making a millstone out of a pebble.
 
The only difference I've noted between a true long action (M1917 and Savage 110), an intermediate action (K-98, and I believe your Tikka falls into this category) and a true short action (Rem 722 and 788), is that with the true long action I have to cock my head back a touch off the scope while cycling the bolt. This takes my cheek off the stock and my eye off the scope. Not so with the K98 and the true short actions. Pretty minor difference as cycling a bolt, even a straight pull like a Blaser or Sauer, raises hell with your NPOA and target tracking also, but if you're really concerned about follow up shots on driven game I could see a real advantage..to the Blaser. Otherwise, get the Tikka, forget about the rest, shoot it and be happy.
 
The tikka has the same bolt travel as a "true" short action in short action cartridge. That is why they have a different bolt stop, it limits full travel of the bolt. And if the tikka isn't stiff enough or light enough for you, you may need a much bigger budget. Tikka rifles are very light for what they are, yet also very durable and dependable. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
 
Have you handled a CTR or any Tikka?

Don’t worry about action length till you try it

Howa has some offerings that might fit your needs as well
 
Howa's 6.5 Creedmor is one of their "mini" actions, which is ~1.5" shorter and 5 ounces lighter than their long action. I've got a Howa in .308 and it's a great gun, might be worth looking into.
 
DougB, it is OK to overthink action lengths if it bugs you, I obsess over gun stuff all of the time - part of my hobby. I do not own nor have I ever even held a Tikka rifle but they are very highly spoken on this forum - I am certain that their actions work/ look just fine.
I own both s Kimber CC and a M70 EW in the “short action”; a standard length .308 round fits nice and snug into the action cutaway, feeds properly, etc. I must say that I am not sure that I would notice another 1/2” in an overview of a rifle that performed well and that I liked.
Look at a Tikka in 6.5 CM, do yourself due diligence and handle other rifles of the same caliber, then pick the one you like. You may find that the Tikka action length is not a big deal nor an issue (for you) at all.
I find that I enjoy the “shopping” part of looking for a new rifle - lots of great rifles out there plus a buyer’s market right now.
 
NORMALLY, if I were buying a short cartridge I'd want it in a true short action rifle. But the standard Tikka's are already the lightest rifle you can touch under $1000 regardless of action length. And probably the most accurate rifle you can touch period regardless of price.

The Tikka CTR isn't a light rifle in the big picture anyway. But among rifles of that style is one of the lightest. My 308 CTR is 8.75 lbs scoped. Many standard sporter rifles are 8.25-8.5 lbs scoped and most tactical rifles are going to be 10+ lbs scoped.

In this case I wouldn't worry about action length. And there are advantages to shooting short cartridges in long action rifles. One of the limitations shooters run into is loading the newer LONG high BC bullets in cartridges like 308 and finding they won't fit the magazine of short action rifles. The US Army 308 sniper rifles have always been built on long action rifles, partly for this reason.

But if my goal is to put together the lightest possible hunting rifle for carrying around in rugged terrain I'd insist on a true short action. My Kimber 308 can weigh under 6 lbs scoped if I choose scopes carefully. It is currently 6.25 lbs. and is a joy to carry.
 
Something to weigh in your considerations - not all short actions are created equally, even true short actions. A Remington 700 or Tikka T3 long action weighs less than a Savage 10 or Ruger M77 Hawkeye short action. The short action 700 is about half a pound lighter than these other heavy actions. What that means - as you noted for action length making up unnecessary overall length and affecting velocity - the heavier action affects the balance and overall weight. For the same rifle weight, Savage has to use a lighter barrel and stock, and the balance point ends up closer to your trigger than it should be. This makes for a relatively nice carrying rifle, but a relatively bad pointing rifle. Alternatively, a 700 of the same weight can have more barrel, giving it a more forward balance for smooth holds on target.

Also consider your application before determining your barrel profile. 20” barrel is stiffer than a 24”, and may not need the extra barrel weight. If you’re shooting a 20”, you’re not shooting long, and if you’re also not shooting fast, there’s nothing a medium/heavy contour will do for you. Sometimes extra barrel weight means stability on target and cooling speed. Sometimes extra barrel weight just means extra rifle weight.

The Tikka’s are good hunting rifles, so if that’s what you are after, you could roll a set of dice and randomly pick any of 11 rifles by chance and be happy. If your desires are something different than hunting or pleasure plinking, then I think you need a little more thought into your pick.
 
LRDGCO said:
If the difference of half an inch in bolt throw is material to you, then you really ought to be shooting a semi -auto.
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I don't think that's fair to say. When I shoot my Savage 10 in 257 Roberts next to my 110 in 25-06 (in identical Boyd ProVarmint stocks, with identical LOP), the extra bolt throw is quite noticeable - not for speed but for ergonomics.
Random 8 said:
with the true long action I have to cock my head back a touch off the scope while cycling the bolt. This takes my cheek off the stock and my eye off the scope
Click to expand...
That's been my experience as well.

I have also found that long actions are much harder to properly fit for optics; modern shorter-bodied optics don't leave much room for scooting the scope back and getting proper eye relief on long actions unless you can get / use railed bases. Fitting an optic to a short action is far easier and less scope-specific. I love me some Tikka - they are by far the highest quality rifle for the money IMO - but I moved to Savage short actions from the T3 line some years back (pre-CTR) for a number of reasons, and optics fitment was one of them.

Varminterror said:
Something to weigh in your considerations - not all short actions are created equally, even true short actions. A Remington 700 or Tikka T3 long action weighs less than a Savage 10 or Ruger M77 Hawkeye short action. The short action 700 is about half a pound lighter than these other heavy actions. What that means - as you noted for action length making up unnecessary overall length and affecting velocity - the heavier action affects the balance and overall weight. For the same rifle weight, Savage has to use a lighter barrel and stock, and the balance point ends up closer to your trigger than it should be. This makes for a relatively nice carrying rifle, but a relatively bad pointing rifle. Alternatively, a 700 of the same weight can have more barrel, giving it a more forward balance for smooth holds on target.
Click to expand...
This is worth repeating. very few people factor balance into their rifle specs, but it's one of the most important factors IMO. I like a rifle that balances on the front receiver ring with just a touch of muzzle heaviness; that specific balance carries well and shoulders / points the best for me. Most factory sporters are too butt-heavy for my tastes.
 
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LRDGCO said:
A "short" action will generally result in a receiver that is about 1 /2" shorter than a standard length action, ie 30-06 !ength.

I have heard many people regurgitate sound bites as to why that 1/2" is material. These range from "a short action receiver is stiffer" to "follow up shots are faster" to "it's an important weight savings".

Balderdash.

If the "short '" action is stiffer to a degree noticeable by any other than a handful of snipers and competitive shooters around the world, than you aren't comparing to a comparable quality longer action receiver. If you are one of a handful of snipers and competitive shooters around the world for whom an apples to apples comparison would yield an edge, you're off the hook.

If the difference of half an inch in bolt throw is material to you, then you really ought to be shooting a semi -auto. If you frequently hunt driven game and can take several in the same day and live in a jurisdiction where a semi-auto rifle is illegal, you're off the hook.

If the weight difference between the two receivers is sufficient to merit that as a major consideration, then you are doing stuff that requires you to be fit enough where that difference really won't matter, because you are in fact as fit as the butcher's dog. If it really does matter and you are headed up the mountain with a $5,000 carbon fiber barrel 4 lbs rifle, then you're off the hook.

In any other circumstance, you are either needlessly obsessing over nothing or making a millstone out of a pebble.
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I couldn't agree more! I've used short and long actions for 40 years and do not notice a 1/2" length difference or a couple ozs of weight. As to a short action being stiffer I doubt there is a noticeable difference as long as the lugs lock close to the chamber.
 
I have a couple thoughts on this - being the owner (at some point) of four Tikka rifles now, as well as several SA Savages, a few SA Remingtons and two Mini action Howas...

The single action length of Tikka's is a non-issue. You never notice that it's a "long" action when you're using a SA cartridge. I've owned a .243 Tikka, a .308, and will probably go to my grave with my Stainless 7mm-08 Tikka. Never once did it occur to me that they were built on "long" actions because they are so light and so accurate. The '06 Tikka I owned was just as light and accurate.

The SA Remingtons frustrated me because they had 2.80" magazines and long throats. There was no way I could load a bullet anywhere close to the lands unless I single-fed them. The accuracy of them (a Model 7 and a model 700) were perfectly acceptable, but the difference between the magazine length and COAL length with a bullet seated near the lands really frustrated me and I sold them both.

The SA Savages have it right IMO - with useful 3.00" magazines that allow a hand loader to achieve whatever OAL they desire, and even fit in an "intermediate length" cartridge like a .257 Roberts or 6.5 Swede if a person really wants.

Finally, My Howa Mini's have in fact impressed me with how light and yes, FAST handling they are. I can never remember working a bolt action as quickly as I have with the Mini's, and that is very useful when surrounded by packs of feral pigs as I have been on multiple occasions. I'm convinced the mini actions allowed me to get off shots more quickly than even a short action would have, and certainly a long action. So, don't knock it until you try it would be my advice.

Good luck and don't overthink it - especially on a Tikka!
 
If you truly want a very light rifle, also consider the scope weight. Some scopes are much lighter than others, cheaper scopes tend to be heavier than, say Leupold. Scope magnification also is a consideration. A huge scope will weigh considerably more than those of the same manufacturer with less power.

For my general hunting rifles, I tend to use Leupold 3-9X variables, but could also make do with a 2-7X of the same make, if weight were a major concern to me. I probably wouldn't go back to a fixed, 4-X scope, due to convenience of the higher powers which are useful when sighting-in or for spotting antlers in dim light.
 
Thank you all for the many informative responses. Just to correct one assumption that wasn't in my original post - I'm not looking for an ultra-light rifle. I wouldn't be considering the Tikka T3x CTR with its heavier barrel if that were my goal (or saying that I want a medium/heavy barrel contour). I just don't like unnecessary weight that doesn't provide a benefit (which I still think a longer than needed action does - though probably not enough to matter much). I also didn't mean to imply that the added stiffness of a shorter action was significant to me - it isn't - it is just another minor theoretical advantage to a shorter action.

Someone also commented that I won't be shooting long range with a 20" barrel. Actually, I do want the ability to do some long-range shooting (hence the heavier barrel and 6.5 Creedmoor cartridge). I'm just a fan of shorter rifles, and am willing to give up a little velocity to get easier handling. It is my understanding that a short, stiff barrel can still provide excellent long-range accuracy - but with slightly more bullet drop and wind drift than a longer barrel could provide with the same cartridge.

I'm looking for an accurate, relatively low-recoiling rifle I can enjoy at the range (95% of its use), and that will also be a reasonable hunting rifle for pigs, deer, etc. Since it will mostly be used for range shooting and plinking, I don't mind a little extra weight. I found it kind of funny that someone commented that I need to be an expert sniper or "frequently shoot driven game" to justify wanting a shorter action. Really? I thought I could want whatever I want in a gun without having to justify it as a necessity. I have enough guns already to meet any practical needs. This a hobby, and I enjoy thinking about - and ultimately buying - the gun that I think is as close as possible to perfect for me (given my own preferences and priorities).

Regarding whether or not a little extra length or weight matter - this reminds me a little of the magazine capacity limits where I live (CA). Sure, 10+1 rounds in a handgun are enough for 99.9% of uses and it would be a very rare case where having an extra 3 or 4 rounds would make a difference to most people. Still, it bugs me to have to used blocked 10-round magazines in pistols designed to use 13 or 14 round magazines. I know its not a perfect analogy, but having a longer than necessary rifle action solely because it reduces manufacturing costs, bugs me a little in a similar way. But your comments are helping me to get over it :).

I appreciate the recommendations, and definitely plan to check out the Tikka. If its lighter and more accurate than many short action rifles, I'll probably like it. I will also check out the Kimber and Howa rifles that were recommended.
 
Jenrick said:
Howa's 6.5 Creedmor is one of their "mini" actions, which is ~1.5" shorter and 5 ounces lighter than their long action. I've got a Howa in .308 and it's a great gun, might be worth looking into.
Click to expand...
The howa 1500 in 6.5 creedmoor is the same action as the 308, while the 6.5 GRENDEL is built in their mini action.
Howa rifles are very accurate IMHO as well. To answer the OPs comment about short rifles, yes, they can be very accurate, but you may loose a little speed. Usually not enough to matter inside 500 yards or so. I, like you, like to have the appropriate size action for any given cartridge, which is why a keep passing up these "almost free" savage axis 223 rifles I keep seeing. But in regards to the tikka rifles, it really goes unnoticed how long the action is. If it bugs you then by all means look elsewhere, but they are so accurate that dismissing them ONLY due to action length may be foolhardy. Only you can decide if it won't work for you though...
 
There's a lot to recommend a short action if your round will fit in one, and it's not just about weight. It's more about how that weight is used. There's only a certain amount of rifle I want to lug around, and weight taken up needlessly enlarging the action (while simultaneously making it flimsier - flex is proportional to the cube of the beam length) is counter-productive. Put that same weight into a heavier barrel, longer shank, longer barrel, or a square bottom action (so it doesn't twist in the stock) and I'm much happier.

In a long action, I at least expect a cartridge with corresponding power. A .270 in a long action is kind of a joke when I can get a .270 WSM in a short action. Same goes for the .30-06 vs the .300 WSM. If a long action round isn't on at least a -06 Ackley case, chances I'm going to want anything to do with it are slim.
 
adcoch1 said:
The howa 1500 in 6.5 creedmoor is the same action as the 308, while the 6.5 GRENDEL is built in their mini action.
Howa rifles are very accurate IMHO as well. To answer the OPs comment about short rifles, yes, they can be very accurate, but you may loose a little speed. Usually not enough to matter inside 500 yards or so. I, like you, like to have the appropriate size action for any given cartridge, which is why a keep passing up these "almost free" savage axis 223 rifles I keep seeing. But in regards to the tikka rifles, it really goes unnoticed how long the action is. If it bugs you then by all means look elsewhere, but they are so accurate that dismissing them ONLY due to action length may be foolhardy. Only you can decide if it won't work for you though...
Click to expand...
Agreed on the Howa accuracy. Only rifle I've shot that is as accurate as my Tikkas, straight out of the box.
 
DougB said:
The Tikka T3x CTR looks like an excellent option for me
Click to expand...
DougB said:
I wouldn't be considering the Tikka T3x CTR with its heavier barrel if that were my goal
Click to expand...
DougB said:
I'm looking for an accurate, relatively low-recoiling rifle I can enjoy at the range (95% of its use), and that will also be a reasonable hunting rifle for pigs, deer, etc. Since it will mostly be used for range shooting and plinking, I don't mind a little extra weight.
Click to expand...

For your purposes, a 7.5lb Tikka T3x CTR with a 20" barrel would fit the bill nicely, IMO. I have a 20" T3 CTR in .260 Remington. The action's as slick as snot, and - action length be darned - it's a tack driver to boot.I bought it for mid-range (up to 500-600 yards) tactical matches, but like it so much, that after swapping the tactical scope for a 1-3x, it's become my deer rifle.
 
It sounds like you’re convincing yourself to build a camel while you’re trying to build a racehorse. You have an overweight barrel and over length action on a handy rifle, and an under length barrel on a long shooter. Mixing and matching attributes of different purpose designed rifles doesn’t yield the best of all attributes. I love the looks of a fat barrel as much as the next guy, but the advantage in a 20” rifle is largely aesthetic.

There are no free lunches. Over length actions are either 1) heavier for the same stiffness, 2) more flexible for the same weight, or 3) made from more expensive materials to make up strength. Mag blocks and bolt stops, it’s a shell game - extra engineering to avoid the correct answer.
 
Had they said they were looking for a rifle to smoke the competition at PRS or F-class Nationals, I'd agree, but the OP indicated they just wanted a compact and accurate hunting/range rifle, which wouldn't seem to require a racehorse.

I wouldn't put the CTR's barrel in the "heavy" category, BTW. It's definitely not a bull barrel. The rifle weighs a balanced 7.5lbs - no heavier than any other deer rifle I've had or hefted.
 
Just as a point of reference: on my scale, a Savage 10 sporter in a factory synthetic stock weighs 6 1/2 pounds while the Tikka T3 Lite weighs 6 1/4 pounds.
 
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