Some people are just stupid and bullheaded to have a firearm

All these horror stories about range's. I feel blessed with the state range here. We pay $3.00 for a lane an hr.Free targets,ear plugs,hearing muffs. 19 lanes and have never had a bad time with anybody that has shown up. The RO sits in a building about 50 ft. from the shooting lanes and watches everybody. If he sees stuff wrong he let's you know by loud speaker. If every lane is full then one RO is walking along behind the shooters. Aboutevery 20 min. they call a cease fire to change targets or move them or if your leaving, all lanes have colored flip up metal cards indicating what your doing. It's agreat place tomeet all kinds of gun's and gun owners. Even have propane heaters for cold days. Andy Dalton range. Shotgun and archery ranges too.

“Diversity” includes the smart and the not so smart; the BoR and the Constitution include the smart and the not so smart. There are hordes of not so smart and they seem to be winning.

I am a grumpy and uncharitable person who has spent too much time in an uncaring mega-metropolis.
In my world, all 18 y/o would be required to go to a range several times and demonstrate responsible behavior on each outing. Those who did not would be excused from jury duty, voting, and driver's licenses (if you are uncaring with a rifle, you are not magically going to be caring with a 3500# vehicle).
But, note the above about being grumpy and under impressed with the charity and considerations of the other rats in this maze.

George Dickel said:

I in no way stated or implied or think that his rights should be taken away.

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George Dickel said:

But the guy is too stupid and bullheaded to own a gun,

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In the same sentence that you deny implying or stating you think the guy's should be taken away you imply that his rights should be taken away. I mean, how else can you interpret that statement?

Whenever I hear someone tell a story about a bad gun owner, I ask them, "Are they being unsafe?" And "Are they breaking the law?" If they are following the law and being safe, then my norms and perceptions really don't matter. I can't rate other gun owners based on my idea of what is normal or culturally correct.

But the flip side of that coin is, when gun owners see behavior that is unsafe or illegal, we have to police our own community and call it out. I hate doing it. It is far out of my comfort zone. I don't want to be the guy who kills the mood when everyone is having fun shooting. But I have said to a couple of people I have corrected; "I teach kids and rookies gun safety. If I make them do it right, I can't let other guys slide and break the rules."

My dad didn't really follow the rules. He adhered to his understanding of safety, but the four rules we know and follow now weren't always the accepted code. If everyone follows all four rules all of the time, gun accidents will become so rare, as to be a statistical anomaly. This is the culture we have to replace for the coming generations.

I used to shoot at a very nice indoor range that was expertly staffed and managed. It was a pleasure to go there and shoot on rainy days, and most of the patrons were not a problem. A few morons that demonstrated unsafe behavior were immediately ejected. Since then, the range has changed hands, and I've heard that it was dangerous to be inside the building.

I mostly shoot at home now, with a small group of serious shooters who are very safety minded. We bring in new shooters by invitation and agreement among the whole group. A new shooter, whether he's never shot before or is a grand master, gets the same treatment. Multiple ROs and IDPA like safety rules and procedures.

No morons..

Now kids let's get along.

George Dickel said:

I said he should realize he is

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Sadly that is an on-going part of the human condition. The inconsiderate, the stupid, the ignorant do not know that they are (or are disinclined to care).
Where this gets dicey is that incredibly fine line between knowing and unknowing. if a person was taught to be polite and is not, that is a situation which may be worthy of rebuke.
If a person has been educated and insists on acting ignorantly, again, that might be cause for rebuke.

The larger problem is that there are uncaring among us, who feel they ought be allowed their own way without question. Which is worse when they expect better from everyone around them. Those frustrations have been the stuff of stories for a few thousand years of human history.

In "our" community we have this as a particularly sharp thorn in our sides as we have a 50 year history, now, of constantly having to prove ourselves, all of us, to be purer than the driven snow, with even less sin than Caesar's wife. Which means 'we" have much less social freedom to "tolerate" outliers and persons at the edges of our community. Humans, generally do not respond well to ostricision, rejection, or rebuke. Even when deserved.

It's even more serious in that, if we make it a large enough issue, not merely the offender, but the rest of us might be denied our rights.
It's a serious issue, and we have to find a way to not commit fratricide--unless it is absolutely necessary.

RSCO

About a month ago I was in a LGS waiting in line to get a knife engraved when a guy walked in OC a small revolver, something like a 642, and starts randomly talking guns to his wife, I wasn't really paying attention.

Until, he said something about "He was the only one with a gun in this conversation ". His wife looked around and said "I wouldn't be so sure."

He wasn't speaking to anyone directly, and I dont even know what he was talking about, but he was a perfect example of a headstrong or "bullheaded" gun owner.

when at the public range, I do my best to mind my own business, but I am not above helping newbies learn the ropes, and assist them when asked. I do however see a great deal of unsafe behavior at times.

At a fairly new indoor range, the SO took me to my lane to show me how the gadgets work. Neat set up. Anyway, the target holder is a big steel gizmo that drops the target holder a significant distance down to attach the target. I looked at it and it was covered with lead splashes. I said - Wow - to the SO. He smiled sadly and pointed the bullet glass partition between lanes, a couple of lanes over. There was a big star pattern from a round fired into it. If I was in the lane, I would have had pants accident.

At another indoor range, I was shooting with me daughter. She looked up to the ceiling above and pointed out the bullet holes. The SO said they were there a month after they opened.

At the outdoor range, an elderly gentleman refused to cease fire at target change because he knew how to shoot. His son made him put the rifle down. He then refused to stop at the next target change and his son actually had to wrestle the rifle away.

Last, years ago, when I was taking the Oregon CHL class, we were shooting 2nd Gen. SW semis. A guy shot down the cable that ran out the targets. He said he was a handloader and the gun barrel must have been curved such that it caused his quality load to shoot up in a curve and take down the cable.

GEM said:

At the outdoor range, an elderly gentleman refused to cease fire at target change because he knew how to shoot. His son made him put the rifle down. He then refused to stop at the next target change and his son actually had to wrestle the rifle away.

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I would think at that point it's time to take dad's rifle away permanently

There is something called the Dunning Krueger effect that causes low skilled individuals to overestimate their competence and highly skilled to sometimes underestimate their abilities.

https://infogalactic.com/info/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Note that the Dunning Krueger effect does not directly deal with IQ but rather with common sense and what we used to call wisdom. Those that overestimate their competence can become quite aggressive when challenged.

I think this is complicated by the fact that at least quite a few gunowners tend to be individualistic in nature and thus may not be amenable to correction by authorities such as range officers or others on the firing line. It comes off to them as telling them what to do and when combined with Dunning Krueger effects, can cause mishaps or aggressive blowups. As people age or if they are in an altered state due to drugs, lack of sleep, etc., then often you see an unfiltered version of a person that would not normally behave in such a fashion if they were in better cognitive shape.

All three ranges I belong to 1indoor 2 outdoor have very strict rules and if you violate any of them you are gone for the day maybe even longer. One range ,the indoor one even assigns a RSO to help and offer advice to any new shooters that come in. All three are very safe and that's why I belong to them. I've been to many but have selected those three to shoot at because they are the safest.

I enjoy that, due to my erratic schedule, I am almost always alone at our range or with one of the few, friendly, and safe folks that maintain similar shooting hours that i do.

I am not sure how much I would enjoy shooting while putting up with nonsense that some of you are forced to.

I was at a local indoor range a while ago, next to a couple that had rented a gun. The guy was starting the Chicago police academy soon and he was inexperienced where guns are concerned and wanted to gain some experience before starting the academy. They rented a Ruger 45 (I don't remember which one, exactly). To their credit they were not too proud to ask for help. He didn't know how to load ammunition into the magazines, how to insert the magazine into the gun, etc. I spent quite a bit of time with them teaching them the fundamentals and let them shoot the 9mm's I had, which they preferred to the 45. It looks like they were the polar opposite of the guy the OP ran into.