165gr 9mm loads for PC Carbine

Gtscotty · Feb 10, 2019

My Ruger PCC came in Friday, so I loaded up three loads with the 165gr X-treme bullets and grabbed a box of factory AE 147gr loads to break things in yesterday.

I chronoed three of each load and got the following velocities:

147gr AE factory
1,041 fps
1,081 fps
1,077 fps
Avg. 1,066 fps

165gr X-treme RN
2.8gr Titegroup
799 fps
772 fps
829 fps

3.0gr W231
809 fps
806 fps
805 fps

3.2gr W231
836 fps
853 fps
839 fps

Just judging by slide velocity and recoil, AE factory loads seemed to be much hotter than any of my handloads, perhaps even a bit too hot for the PCC's blowback action. While shooting the 147s, I got some dings in the black finish around the ejection port, a bunch of mangled brass, and several malfunctions using my El Cheapo 31rd Korean Glock mag (15 Rd Glock and Korean mags ran fine). I didn't have any of these problems with the 165gr loads except for one hiccup with the Titegroup load in the 31rd Korean mag.

I'm liking the W231 loads, which, loader beware, were found in the internet, not in any publication. They seem to be a bit more uniform than the Titegroup loads, while still being quiet and soft shooting. Also Titegroup worked it's way into the mechanism in my Chargemaster Lite and bound things up, kind of a pain to fix.

I couldn't find any BE-86 locally, but that's next on the list, along with doing some accuracy tests with the above loads.

Galil5.56 · Feb 10, 2019

Very nice, thanks for the update and data... Heavy and slow in 9mm is kinda fun, ain't it? Simply my opinion, but if given a choice between the two propellants to continue work-up, I would stick with WW231. Be interesting to see your results with BE-86 or so speed propellants.

Rule3 · Feb 10, 2019

Gtscotty said:
My Ruger PCC came in Friday, so I loaded up three loads with the 165gr X-treme bullets and grabbed a box of factory AE 147gr loads to break things in yesterday.

I chronoed three of each load and got the following velocities:

147gr AE factory
1,041 fps
1,081 fps
1,077 fps
Avg. 1,066 fps

165gr X-treme RN
2.8gr Titegroup
799 fps
772 fps
829 fps

3.0gr W231
809 fps
806 fps
805 fps

3.2gr W231
836 fps
853 fps
839 fps

Just judging by slide velocity and recoil, AE factory loads seemed to be much hotter than any of my handloads, perhaps even a bit too hot for the PCC's blowback action. While shooting the 147s, I got some dings in the black finish around the ejection port, a bunch of mangled brass, and several malfunctions using my El Cheapo 31rd Korean Glock mag (15 Rd Glock and Korean mags ran fine). I didn't have any of these problems with the 165gr loads except for one hiccup with the Titegroup load in the 31rd Korean mag.

I'm liking the W231 loads, which, loader beware, were found in the internet, not in any publication. They seem to be a bit more uniform than the Titegroup loads, while still being quiet and soft shooting. Also Titegroup worked it's way into the mechanism in my Chargemaster Lite and bound things up, kind of a pain to fix.

I couldn't find any BE-86 locally, but that's next on the list, along with doing some accuracy tests with the above loads.

Have you cleaned it after shooting? How dirty is it?

Mine gets filthy (also used loads with HP 38 but more of it with 124 and 115 gr bullets.

LiveLife · Feb 10, 2019

Galil5.56 said:
Walkalong said:

I would say likely, but then it will really depend on the pistols chamber/throat/etc. A RN or TrFP where the full diameter part won't be very far out of the case would be the best bet. I suspect newer pistols would be more problematic than older ones with all the trend towards "match" chambers.

Click to expand...

Beat me to it, and I have very similar thoughts. This type of 'exotic' reloading only magnifies the "each gun is a law unto itself" philosophy, where trial and error will dictate success or failure ... reasonable OAL can be reached that will function in guns with longish leades. Hard to empirically say it will work; more like experience has me thinking it looks like it will work.

They do work mostly, depending on the pistol and barrel used, even match barrels with tighter chamber.

In another thread, a member wanted to feed .38 Spl 148 gr wadcutters in 9mm.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/148-gr-wadcutter-in-9mm.456919/#post-10183557

Walkalong/Galil5.56, as to wadcutters feeding in match barrels with tighter chambers, I was curious too. So did a test where I flipped various bullets upside down and incrementally decreased the OAL until they reliably fed from the magazine. Surprisingly, they all fed reliably!

NOTE: My Glock 22 with KKM/Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion match barrels will feed and chamber empty brass from the magazine.

Picture below shows 115 gr Winchester FMJ, Berry's HBRN, RMR HM RN, MBC 124 gr RN BB (Bevel Base) and Dardas 126 gr SWC FB (Flat Base) bullets seated upside down with corresponding OALs and they all fed/chambered from the magazine (except Dardas SWC bullet as the flat base expanded when it was seated).

Eugen · Feb 10, 2019

Is it just me?! But, 165gr projectiles and 9mm rounds just don't sound right. I mean it is like asparagus flavored ice cream. I don't need and I don't think I'd like it.

Life is good with just 115 and 124. Well, ok, 147 is good for bowling pins.

Gtscotty · Feb 10, 2019

Galil5.56 said:
Very nice, thanks for the update and data... Heavy and slow in 9mm is kinda fun, ain't it? Simply my opinion, but if given a choice between the two propellants to continue work-up, I would stick with WW231. Be interesting to see your results with BE-86 or so speed propellants.

Yeah, the 165gr shot nice and smooth with no drama or issues. I think I might pick up a sample pack of 158gr coated 38 bullets from Chey-Cast (which is run out of my ranges main office) to give a try as well.

I'm favoring the W231/HP-38 going forward with these bullets myself. I already keep W231 around and use it to load 9mm, .40 and .44, so it's already in the pipeline and is easy to work with.

Rule3 said:
Have you cleaned it after shooting? How dirty is it?

Mine gets filthy (also used loads with HP 38 but more of it with 124 and 115 gr bullets.

Just cleaned it, and it didn't seem too dirty, I only shot 20 rds with W231, 30 rds with Titegroup, and 50 factory, so it was only 100 rds all told. What you see in the paper towel below was pretty much all that wiped off the parts and the inside of the receiver.

It could be that's a lot of fouling to other folks, and I'm just used to it, W231 is the main pistol power I use. I don't have my pistol suppressor yet, I expect things to be much dirtier with a can on the end.

Here you can kind of see the spots in the front of the ejection port where brass from the 147gr loads knocked some finish off. The rifle behaved weirdly with those loads, I don't think I'll be using them again.

Gtscotty · Feb 10, 2019

Eugen said:
Is it just me?! But, 165gr projectiles and 9mm rounds just don't sound right. I mean it is like asparagus flavored ice cream. I don't need and I don't think I'd like it.

Must be you. I'm liking heavies in the 9mm, more like a peanut butter + ice cream combination.... awesome.

Texas10mm · Feb 10, 2019

Eugen said:
Is it just me?! But, 165gr projectiles and 9mm rounds just don't sound right. I mean it is like asparagus flavored ice cream. I don't need and I don't think I'd like it.

Life is good with just 115 and 124. Well, ok, 147 is good for bowling pins.

I haven't loaded any 165 gr but I've loaded some 158/160 gr. Heavy bullet and a pinch of powder, 2.7 gr Ramshot Competition, makes a great match load in my Canik.

Rule3 · Feb 11, 2019

Eugen said:
Is it just me?! But, 165gr projectiles and 9mm rounds just don't sound right. I mean it is like asparagus flavored ice cream. I don't need and I don't think I'd like it.

Life is good with just 115 and 124. Well, ok, 147 is good for bowling pins.

"odd" to me also but I guess we are ALL a bit odd. :what:

Take a handgun caliber cartridge that was designed to be high velocity with relatively light bullets and make it a slow and heavy?

Kinda like making "plinking" loads for a SW 460 Mag

Dill · Feb 11, 2019

odd until you buy a suppressor and threaded barrels for all of your 9mm pistols.

Eugen said:
Is it just me?! But, 165gr projectiles and 9mm rounds just don't sound right. I mean it is like asparagus flavored ice cream. I don't need and I don't think I'd like it.

Life is good with just 115 and 124. Well, ok, 147 is good for bowling pins.

Eugen · Feb 11, 2019

Dill, good point.

However, the day I buy and use a suppressor in my state I become a criminal. Illinois law frowns upon the use of suppressors. What's really bad is that the state legislature is working on even more restrictions and regulations on gun shops and gun owners. I'm retired and as soon as my wife retires we're out of here.

Rule3 · Feb 11, 2019

Dill said:
odd until you buy a suppressor and threaded barrels for all of your 9mm pistols.

What exactly does that heavy a bullet in a 9mm do with a suppressor, that say a 147 grain doesn't do?

In what application makes it so beneficial?

Dill · Feb 11, 2019

ensures subsonic flight. I've had some 147's go super sonic with longer barrel pistols and especially PCC's and in the various weather extremes we get here in Minnesota.

Rule3 said:
What exactly does that heavy a bullet in a 9mm do with a suppressor, that say a 147 grain doesn't do?

In what application makes it so beneficial?

Gtscotty · Feb 11, 2019

Rule3 said:
What exactly does that heavy a bullet in a 9mm do with a suppressor, that say a 147 grain doesn't do?

In what application makes it so beneficial?

What does the 147gr do better than the 165gr other than cost $0.01 less per bullet? Why does it have to be "so beneficial"? I reload and wanted to try it, so I did, if you don't, then don't. I can load up 147gr loads if I want, but the 165gr is pretty interesting for now, and I don't see any useful benefit for me to go with the 147s.

165gr 9mm loads for PC Carbine

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