Are revolvers obsolete for police work?

I am not now nor have I ever been a police officer.
I love my revolvers.
I love my Glocks.
If I were a cop I would want the most fire power with the quickest reloads and the most reliable handgun I could get.

Think about it. If you were walking into an unknown situation, like; a traffic stop on a dark night and the car you pulled over has all around limo tint. You are responding to a domestic dispute. You are chasing an armed robber down a dark alley.

Would you want a revolver and 3 speed loaders or would you want your favorite type of semi auto with 17 or 18 rounds in it plus 2 or 3 more 17 or 18 round magazines on your hip.

Screw nostalgia, I am going for firepower!

Drail said:

No one is suggesting an officer carry a long arm slung while driving ( I wasn't and I hope no one else was) but if the streets are really that dangerous then you better grab a carbine or shotgun EVERY time you exit the vehicle and not slung but carried in a ready position.

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I can't say enough about how some people in this thread clearly have no idea about the demands and realities of real world police work if anyone thinks for a second that grabbing a long gun and carrying at the ready every time an officer gets out of a cruiser is either a good idea, or a viable idea.

labnoti said:

Actual police use of firearms is best served by the submachine gun.

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No, it's not. There's no real High Road way to say what needs to be said about your clear lack of experience in the field other than that your are a spectacular example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

I see 2 reasons to own a revolver in 2019: 1- you just like them 2- the user needs the power offered by a big bore magnum for defense from dangerous animals like bears. All data seems to reflect that a law enforcement officer would be at a significant disadvantage when carrying such a handgun for duty use. While I have never been in law enforcement, I spent 23 years in the military and 5 years working in the security sector overseas. I used my handgun on duty 2 times. I didn't always have my M4 on me, but I did always have my sidearm, and I was always glad it was an auto- even if it wasn't always the auto I wanted to have on me.

When I heard about a robbery gone bad in Remington Indiana I made the choice to start concealed carry. My available choices were a 32-20 revolver, a 45 revolver, a 38 special revolver, a 1911 45 automatic and a 38 Super Colt Commander. For a number of reasons the Commander seemed like the best choice and two of the revolvers the last choice with the third revolver unable to fill the function. I refuse to even consider demanding a public servant a lessor choice than I would make myself. While I have seen a few LEO's that suffer what Dad calls "Barney Fife" syndrome I have also noticed they tend not to stay in uniform long. While I would be appalled if the local Sheriff obtained an APC with heavy machine guns I have problem none with his deputy's having semi-auto handguns. If only for the reason if I were called to the ER for an emergency under-staff I would far prefer to work on suspect than an LEO.

I love revolvers (and own a few) but haven't carried one on or off duty since 1992. I do not know one officer who currently carries a wheelgun.

On a recent Outdoor channel show about revolvers, it was mentioned that a few corrections officers still carry revolvers. That's all they said.

I view revolvers as "niche" guns in law enforcement.

I started out carrying the 4" K-Frame revolver. I love my Model 10-6 4". For me it is the perfect fit and I shoot it very well. When it comes time to start giving up my guns that Model 10 will be one of the last, maybe the last, pistol I will let go.

Back when I carried a revolver I could reload it using a speedloader in 3 - 5 seconds. I often reloaded it faster than the guys carrying semi-autos. But I practiced a lot. The problem with reloading a revolver even when using a speedloader is it requires use of fine motor skills which research has shown tend to go out the window in a high stress situation. I am glad I never had to reload it while under fire at night in a dark alley.

Real world events, especially two close to home, have convinced me to give up my revolvers and my edc now is the Beretta 92FS. Firepower is important. Even, perhaps more so, as a civilian as the Police are never around when the shooting starts.

I see revolvers serving in two roles in law enforcement;

The first is for Wildlife, Fish & Game Officers where it necessary to put down a injured large animal. Sheriff Deputies in rural areas often have to put down injured horses and cows. Large animals require a deep penetrating bullet that duty semi-autos lack. . However typically in such a situation the officer can get a high powered rifle or shotgun from their vehicle to do the task.

The second is as back-up guns. The J-Frame is still a excellent choice for when everything else has failed and it is your last chance for survival.

So if I had to return to carrying the revolver when on duty I would spend a lot of time reacquiring my skill to rapidly reload it using speedloaders and even with three speedloader (24 rounds) I would not be sure of how happy I would be.

And my J-Frame revolver will be recalled to duty use as my bug.

BSA1 said:

The first is for Wildlife, Fish & Game Officers where it necessary to put down a injured large animal. Sheriff Deputies in rural areas often have to put down injured horses and cows. Large animals require a deep penetrating bullet that duty semi-autos lack. . However typically in such a situation the officer can get a high powered rifle or shotgun from their vehicle to do the task.

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A shotgun or rifle is a much better choice than a revolver for those situations, and I don't see any situation where a revolver would be better suited than a 9mm regardless. I once watched a farmer put down a wild steer that had taken up residence on my property. He used a .22 mag rifle and it dropped with a single shot.

I also watched a state trooper try to dispatch a deer my dad had hit with his car. The trooper crouched down within 5 feet of the deer, which was laying down with it's head up and sitting very still. He completely missed, from 5 feet, with his first 2 shots. The 3rd shot blew it's jaw loose, then the deer started violently thrashing. 4th shot was in the neck. At that point the trooper had to wait about a minute for the deer to stop moving, and eventually he hit it's brain on the 5th shot which killed the deer. It was pretty horrific to watch and a .357 or .44 mag would have fared no better than the .40 S&W that was being used. I almost wish I had just slit the deer's throat while we were waiting for the trooper to arrive, although I could have gotten injured trying that.

Revolvers have a place in limited application for law enforcement. However, one must consider what the majority of contacts are going to be: with people. A big bore revolver with all the power of the big bore isn't needed in the vast majority of encounters. A small bore revolver like Teddy Roosevelt had...well...lacks everything.

I'm former LE and still carry in my current position, an armed public safety position. We can pick what we want, as long as it is a reputable manufacturer and is in 9mm. I carry a 1911 in 9mm and am very comfortable with my choice. I feel that its benefits (increased accuracy at double the price of most duty weapons, manual safety, familiarity with it, sheer preference), to me, offset the capacity limits.

There are days when I wished I carried a plastic-fantastic high cap though: cold, snowy or rainy days being the primary times. There are days every now and then when I am patrolling in the mountains that I wished for a big bore revolver, especially when you hear calls about bears or elk. Still, the 1911, for me, covers the vast majority of what I may encounter on duty. It's a matter of preparing for the 99%, knowing others are coming with more specialized tools.

That said, I prefer revolvers, and carry them off duty, usually in two's, and am usually in the mountains fishing or hiking.

GunnyUSMC said:

In your way of thinking, if someone were to pull a gun on you, You would become the attacker if you used more force then the guy trying to robbing you, and he would become the Victim.

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How would you describe the difference between police work and that of a civilian self-defender?

GunnyUSMC said:

You have stated a few times that unprovoked attacks on cops are rare. Tell that to the two city officers and the deputy that Gavin Long killed. I knew all three of the officers, one was a friend of mine.

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They are rare. I'm sorry it doesn't diminish the tragedy of them. I offer my condolences sincerely. I don't think that it is less tragic when an officer is threatened or attacked because they righteously provoked the attack. They have a duty and are bound by an oath to pursue the lawless and bring them to justice. That doesn't make it less any less tragic when they're counter-attacked.

GunnyUSMC said:

I do have to say that about 90% of what you have posted in this topic has nothing to do with the topic.

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You completely misunderstood the topic. Go back and read it again -- just the OP. This was never about police work, but about how what the police do and what they carry to do it influences the personal choices of one civilian.

GunnyUSMC said:

Just ask yourself this. If you knew that you were going into a gun fight and the bad guy was going to be using a Glock 17 with a 32 round extended mag, what gun would you want to have?

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I answered that.

BobWright said:

Observing several body cam videos shows, that, maybe not taught, but certainly practiced. And one dash cam revealed that at least two of the first shots fired struck the ground between the officer and the culprit. And a recent film clip from a local police department training academy showed the student walking forward toward a paper target, firing as he moved. He emptied his pistol and scored few lethal hits, as I recall. Maybe that's notreferred to as "spray and pray" but sure is wild shooting.

Bob Wright

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People miss in gunfights. It can happen to the best of shots once adrenaline kicks in, and you need to shoot the bad guy before he shoots you. Yes, there's some videos out there that show cops performing poorly in gunfights, but they're all wearing body cameras now which allows us to watch and critique. If regular citizens wore body cameras too, I think we'd see a lot of wild shooting as well. Perhaps even more so.

ClickClickD'oh said:

I can't say enough about how some people in this thread clearly have no idea about the demands and realities of real world police work if anyone thinks for a second that grabbing a long gun and carrying at the ready every time an officer gets out of a cruiser is either a good idea, or a viable idea.



No, it's not. There's no real High Road way to say what needs to be said about your clear lack of experience in the field other than that your are a spectacular example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

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Another person that didn't read the OP or have any awareness of what this topic was or is. The only knowledge of police work needed to answer the OP comes from the Extreme Police Alley Combat first-person shooter video game.

Revolvers do have a place in SWAT for a point man behind a ballistic shield when entering or clearing a house. NutnFancy and Hickock45 both said so, so it must be true:





Whenever I need to enter my house, "I don't call 911." I just go ahead and handle that myself with my ballistic shield, TRR8 and 3 speedloaders. Works good for when a sound wakes me up and need to clear the house from room to room too.

GEM said:

You completely misunderstood the topic. Go back and read it again -- just the OP. This was never about police work, but about how what the police do and what they carry to do it influences the personal choices of one civilian.

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Re-reading the OP and the only sentence in the entire post, including his quoted reference, with a question mark was, "So are revolvers obsolete for police work?"

In the office building where I work, they put armed Houston PD officers in the lobby after hours. Have been for years.

Apparently they let the officers have some degree of latitude regarding gun choice on extra detail, as I have seen 1911’s, Glocks, and S&W autos in the holsters. There is one fella who routinely carries a stainless revolver with wood stocks. So, I say all that to suggest that he probably isn’t alone in his preference, but he’s doing stuff more related to “desk security” work and not “police work”.

labnoti said:

Revolvers do have a place in SWAT for a point man behind a ballistic shield when entering or clearing a house. NutnFancy and Hickock45 both said so, so it must be true:





Whenever I need to enter my house, "I don't call 911." I just go ahead and handle that myself with my ballistic shield, TRR8 and 3 speedloaders. Works good for when a sound wakes me up and need to clear the house from room to room too.

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<tongue firmly in cheek>
Only three speed-loaders? Dang... the zombies are going to eat your brains first.

72rds if you included the 8 in the revolver, aint no zombies feasting on my brains!



</tongue firmly in cheek>

How do you use a speed-loader and a ballistic shield at the same time? I can do a one handed reload with my semi-auto, slow but not difficult, not sure how I would manage a one handed speed-loader reload with a revolver?

labnoti said:

How would you describe the difference between police work and that of a civilian self-defender?




They are rare. I'm sorry it doesn't diminish the tragedy of them. I offer my condolences sincerely. I don't think that it is less tragic when an officer is threatened or attacked because they righteously provoked the attack. They have a duty and are bound by an oath to pursue the lawless and bring them to justice. That doesn't make it less any less tragic when they're counter-attacked.



You completely misunderstood the topic. Go back and read it again -- just the OP. This was never about police work, but about how what the police do and what they carry to do it influences the personal choices of one civilian.



I answered that.

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Are you sure about the topic you are posting in? Here is the OP's original question, which is the topic. So are revolvers obsolete for police work? He did say that he thinks he would feel just as safe with a S&W L frame 7 shot 3" .357 mag. as I would an autoloader 9mm, while walking down an alley in New Orleans red district at 1am ... provided I had 3 or more speedloaders. Tot tell you the truth, I don't think he has ever been in New Orleans at night. I live 80 miles from New Orleans and avoid that city as much as possible.
I don't see where you got that this post was about what police do and how they influences anyone's choice. The OP gave an opinion of what he thought would work for him.
You also have no real concept of what police do. Number one, you never confront force with the same amount of force. You confront it with a higher level. But your goal is not to escalate, but to deescalate.

labnoti said:

Whenever I need to enter my house, "I don't call 911." I just go ahead and handle that myself with my ballistic shield, TRR8 and 3 speedloaders. Works good for when a sound wakes me up and need to clear the house from room to room too.

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Now you're just joking around with some old Gecko45 quotes right?

Are those cast bullets? Dude, with that setup you are totally vulnerable to werewolves. Of which, I heard there are a lot in New Orleans.

labnoti said:

I don't see it quite this way. Overwhelmingly, LE initiates the violence in encounters with criminals. It's been that way for all the history of cops with guns, which only goes back something like 150 years. There are occasions where the criminal escalates the violence to guns, but it's almost always a response to the threat from the cops which the cops initiated. We very rarely see unprovoked attacks on LE. Because cops are provoking the overwhelming majority of the violent encounters they're in, there is no reason for them to be unprepared. This is not new. One of the earliest treatises on cop tactics that was widely accepted (Shoot to Kill) recommends the automatic handgun, and declares a preference for handguns that are more like machineguns. We could speculate why US police stayed with the revolver for so long through the 20th century, but they were the only ones doing so and it was never a matter of "different times." The revolver has never been a particularly good combat weapon.

Where the revolver can shine is in a self-defense role. This is almost never what police are doing. When you are provoking attacks, it is not self-defense, it is combat.

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I think you misunderstood my post. Generally a cop with a revolver vs a criminal with a semi auto puts the cop at a disadvantage. It seems pretty obvious IMO.

labnoti said:

Are those cast bullets? Dude, with that setup you are totally vulnerable to werewolves. Of which, I heard there are a lot in New Orleans.

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Lead core, silver tipped with a blue polymer coating to ensures no leading and ensure penetration through the hide of the toughest lycanthrope before exposing the reactive silver tip.

When I am feeling a little more like Earl I run this:



And when I feel like going with the .gov agency that shares my username I pack this. Dwayne approved...



But if am not monster hunting and had to wear a badge and gun on the street (god for bid) it would not be a revolver.

labnoti said:

Another person that didn't read the OP or have any awareness of what this topic was or is. The only knowledge of police work needed to answer the OP comes from the Extreme Police Alley Combat first-person shooter video game.

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As others have already pointed out, the OPs question was in fact: "So are revolvers obsolete for police work?" I would suggest that having a fair and passing knowledge of police work is in fact beneficial to properly answering the question. That's classified under: "Knowing what the hell you are talking about"

mcb said:

more like Earl

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mcb said:

Dwayne approved...

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Wait..

Hang on a sec...

Oh well done sir. It's been a while since a good MHI reference slipped in.

With modern defensive handguns, the reliability advantage of revolvers over semi autos is minute.