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So what? There are several neck rifles calibers that can use H110
300 Blackout is also suitable.
The cartridge I tried it in was .303 british, and I got severe sticky bolt, the front sight flipped at an odd angle, and the case severely ruptured.
 
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If we decide the 300 grains aren't a good idea (as they would cause bulging) I think using these would be a proven substitute. Honestly much better than a 300 gr bullet traveling at <400 fps anyway, and would serve practical use.
I think they would make a hell of a close range defense or hunting bullet. I've always wished for a 180 gr soft alloy wadcutter for this purpose. Also obviously good for their intended role of knocking things over. Might be a better experiment to use this proven bullet and data and experiment with momentum, and stabilization at longer ranges.
 
I’ve fired a lot of 180’s and 200’s in .357 mag and max, and 357/44, over 200 becomes incredibly NOT interesting. The little case barely holds on for the 200’s, and is really at its peak with 180’s. The 300 idea was just silliness.
 
I'm on the not worth it band wagon.
.

^^^Yep.....me too. But then, I've got several calibers larger than .357, altho I have more .357 platforms than other caliber platforms. Can it be done? Sure it can.........and in a short barreled revolver you probably can avoid a stuck bullet. My question is why? What practical purpose is there? Some folks like to tread where others have not. Odds are someone has tread here before....and the reason they did not continue is obvious.

JMTCs.
 
A 300gr is simply not going to stabilize, at all. If you know that going in, what's the point?

H110 is a fine rifle powder, depending on the cartridge, not barrel length.
 
IMO the OP is talking about dangerous loading practices and new reloaded should be warned about it. Loading H110 in the 303 British and bragging about rupturing the case is reckless.

This thread seems fairly strange, I don't even load a 300gr bullet in the 35 Remington so why would I do it in the .357 Magnum?
 
I intended to ask about .200 gr bullets for use in 357 Mag for hunting purposes, but I had a typo and typed 300 gr instead.

And this, children, is why you should not use "recipes" found on the gunboards without confirmation.

My familiarity with 'ball' powders is that they're usually flaky, and difficult to measure. However I know I may be wrong with classifying 800x as a 'ball' powder

This indicates a lack of familiarity with the characteristics of the various powders.
Ball powders start out as spherical globules, hence the Hodgdon substitute term for a Winchester trademark. If carried through to completion like that, they measure very well. I loaded some .308 with A2520 and the measure consistency was great. Some are rolled more are less flat to adjust the burn rate and are sometimes mistaken for flake powder. But they are still well rounded and measure well. My HP38 loads are close enough for anything.

Flake powders are usually extruded, just cut off short with thickness much less than diameter. 800X and Herco are large and difficult to measure volumetrically for pistol loads, although adequate for shotshells. Bullseye is a fine flake and measures well. For some reason, Trail Boss measures better than its flake size would predict, good enough for .44-40, anyhow.
 
Sometime you have to make the mistakes yourself? :neener:

Yes a 300gr 357 pistol bullet is silly and probably not terribly useful in a 357 Mag case. That does not mean we couldn't do it and do it safely if we are willing to lay the ground work. I got the impression from the OP that this thread is sort of a whimsical creation due to a typo in another thread. I like thinking outside the box and jump in to help with this whimsical idea. Sometimes its fun to play with the numbers even if you never intend to create the monster and sometimes we create silly cartridges not because they are useful but because they are entertaining. Look at the stuff TAOFLEDERMAUS (YouTube) has stuffed in shotgun shells for entertainment value alone. Again all depending on how risk adverse we want to be. Having worked up loads from scratch with no published data to start with, even before I got a copy of Quickloads, using an old program called Numerical Advanced Internal Ballistic Model (NABM) I am an fairly willing to go off the reservation while still striving to be fairly safe. I have yet to blow up a gun or stick a bullet due to poor load development.

Just take this thread with a large grain of salt and let the discussion roll. Something interesting might come of it or not...
 
Loading H110 in the 303 British and bragging about rupturing the case is reckless.
I wasn't bragging. If you took my post as bragging, and ignore my statements that I think no one else should be doing this, then that's your fault for misunderstanding.
I saw in the forums at one point about a dumbass using h110 for .303 british but couldn't find results anywhere about what happened. So I took it into my own hands to test it and document what happens when one does that. Result: Awful idea, no one should do it.
And as for the powder unfamiliarity, I haven't used up to a dozen different powders as some reloaders of a dozen calibers have already. So far I have used 6 different powders. Black, WSF, H110, Bluedot, 4198, and 3031. Right now I'm expanding my horizons and calibers. This thread shouldn't be taken with seriousness, as in the original post, I saw this is an experiment and I warn against anyone else doing this.
EDIT: mcb sums it up perfectly as well
 
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Y'all be careful out there. Sometimes what is fun and interesting to talk about is a bad idea in reality.
 
What bullet are you going to use? Looking at some 300 grain molds shows a bullet with a length of 1.135". A 200 grain RN is about .8" It's a difficult enough balancing act to stuff a 200 grain bullet into a case, crimp appropriately, not bulge the case, and get it to fit in the cylinder. The idea sounds interesting until you actually try and do it and then you'll realize its a PITA and any results will be about useless.
 
Someone posted a link to this bullet:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...caliber-359-diameter-300-grain-lead-flat-nose
But it is .359 diameter. Sizing it down to .357 is a good idea.
Using 2.7 grains of power pistol should get this projectile a little over 500 FPS. I'd only make 6 cartridges. If I get 3 squibs in a row, I'll stop the shooting.
But right now I'm waiting for some cash to come in (payday) so it's gonna be a few weeks before I can get this idea to the range. I'm going to do my powder shopping and if I feel reason to go through with this experiment, put the Hunters supply bullets on the list.
 
A Bullet diameter of .359 is the least of your concerns and won't make any difference. In order to fit a loaded round into any revolver the whole bearing surface will be shoved into the case and swagged down in size anyways.
 
A Bullet diameter of .359 is the least of your concerns and won't make any difference. In order to fit a loaded round into any revolver the whole bearing surface will be shoved into the case and swagged down in size anyways.

He’ll need to draw .359” bullets down - that big of bearing surface won’t get smooshed by the brass, he’ll have a bulge and run the risk of not fitting into the cylinder.
 
He’ll need to draw .359” bullets down - that big of bearing surface won’t get smooshed by the brass, he’ll have a bulge and run the risk of not fitting into the cylinder.

I'm not sure what you mean, but there is nothing he can do that will get that bullet to fit and work in any normal revolver. If he try's to seat the bullet deep enough in the brass it absolutely will swagged the bullet diameter down in size and at the same time bulge the brass. A .357 magnum case isn't designed to take a bullet that long. Your average bullet seats a bout .3" to .4" inside the case. A Wadcutter bullet sits about . 5" inside a case. In order to get that bullet to fit in any normal cylinder the whole bearing surface will be stuffed inside the case which is much more than the case was designed for and if you pulled the bullet after seating it that deep you'll have a boattail bullet that has conformed to the internal taper of the case.

Just like you can't shove 6 gallons of crap into a 5 gallon bucket, you can't stuff that bullet into a .357 Mag case and have it work as intended. There's a reason all load manuals stop at bullets 230 grains or smaller. Most stop at about 180 grain bullets.
 
For a quick and dirty solution to the case web issue we could load a re-sized .359 rifle bullet backward using the ogive to give us clearance for the case web. Even better would be to make a bullet that has a modest taper at both end to conform to the taper of the case web like a double ended wad cutter but tapered at both end. We could make a large portion of the cylindercal part of the bullet bore diameter and the leave two or three groove diameter driving bands on them in the middle half of the projectile to reduce bore resistance. The shorter and more cylindrical we can make the bullet the better chance we would have to stabilizing it give the ~1: 16 moderate twist rates many 357 Mags use.

We should also be able to load them longer than SAAMI OAL of 1.59 if we pick our revolver for this purpose. Many 357 Mag will tolerate a 1.65 OAL and I would bet the Red Hawk 357 would tolerate 1.7 inch OAL if not a touch longer.
 
If he try's to seat the bullet deep enough in the brass it absolutely will swagged the bullet diameter down in size

Not beating around the bush here, as I have seated more than enough over-diameter, long bearing surface bullets into revolvers. It’ll bulge the hell out of the case, and will not draw down to .357” simply by seating. It WILL bulge the case, and may or may not fit in his chambers. Been there, done that.

But you’re incorrect in that he can’t do anything to make the bullet fit in the revolver - draw it down in a Lee Sizing die and seat it deep, it’ll drop in. Won’t have enough powder to get anything done which is worth doing, but it’ll fit. All of the dimensions and even quickload simulation data has been provided here in the thread.
 
I have seated more than enough over-diameter, long bearing surface bullets into revolvers. It’ll bulge the hell out of the case, and will not draw down to .357” simply by seating. It WILL bulge the case, and may or may not fit in his chambers. Been there, done that.

But you’re incorrect in that he can’t do anything to make the bullet fit in the revolver - draw it down in a Lee Sizing die and seat it deep, it’ll drop in. Won’t have enough powder to get anything done which is worth doing, but it’ll fit. All of the dimensions and even quickload simulation data has been provided here in the thread.

If you went and pulled those bullets you would see that not only did they bulge the case but they also swagged down the bullet. Sizing it down to .357 won't help much if at all. I've seated 200 grain bullets and then pulled them and the base of the bullet will be under .350 in diameter and still chamber with a slight bulge. All the lead has to go somewhere. I'm not sure how much faith I'd place in a Quickload estimate for something this far outside the norm. At an estimated 400 FPS I'd guess you're just as likely to end up with a big bullet stuck in the barrel.

Even if they exit the barrel, they'll be flying sideways after a couple feet and hit the ground not much further out. A rock would be a better option at that point.
 
Cause I should be doing something else...

G9ELNA5l.jpg

The double ended oblong hole puncher, aka Mr Wobbly for those of you with no imagination. This virtual bullet is 1.2 inches long. With a body diameter of .348 and three .1 inch long driving bands .357 inch in diameter. Both ends have 3.4 degree taper to a .3125 (5/16) diameter meplat. The taper section is .3 inches long. Using lead with a density of 11.0 g/cm^3 (typical of a 4% antimony alloy) this is a 305 gr bullet.

Again I think it would not wobble as much as its name implies. Putting the above parameters into a Berger's stability calculator shows its just above the marginal stable region (1.53) with a 1: 16 twist barrel going 700 fps. Certainly not going to be super accurate but stable.

A picture of it as an assembled virtual cartridge with a 1.65 OAL.
Yj2Hrc8l.jpg

Now the internal dimensions of the case is an approximation as those dimension are not part of the SAAMI spec and it's difficult to measure those quick and dirt when I should be doing something else but it is close. I measured the internal volume of my model and got 26.3 gr H2O and I had been using 26.2 gr H2O in Quickloads simulation.

kglNuhgl.jpg

Notice there ain't much room for propellant (~5.0 gr H2O less than 20% usable volume). The lowest driving band is just over .5 inches into the case.

Also notice no primer or powder present in the model. I was being safe and did not want to blow up my CAD program or lodge a virtual bullet in the CAM post-processor. Getting a stuck virtual-bullet out of the post-processor is a pain in the butt.

ETA: Someone should see if Seismic Ammo wants to pick this idea up. A 300gr 357 Mag fits right in there with their 185gr 9mm and 325gr 45 ACP. And supposedly they spent a lot of R&D time coming up with a powder that works well with super heavy for caliber cartridges.
 
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We need a powder that would work well in that 5 % space . Seismic Ammo should pick this idea up. What would be his/her recommended powder for heavy bullets like this?
 
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