pcp ssp and mpp are all PNEUMATICS and all have their place and noise varies with power, quality ones are great. Any particular pnuematic or model ya have in mind?
Airgun forums have sure changed!
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flightsimmer
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Like I had described earlier, the ones that are powered by compressed gas cylinders like the ones on a car that holds up the lift gate or hood on a car or mini van.
They act like a spring but use sealed gas tubes.
Yes, I guess they are all pneumatic but I don't know the proper name for them.
They act like a spring but use sealed gas tubes.
Yes, I guess they are all pneumatic but I don't know the proper name for them.
arcticap
Member
One of the best things that anyone can do is to look up as many user reviews for the models and types of air guns that you're interested in.
For instance Pyramid Air lists the types of air guns by category, and the folks who buy them write extensive reviews that can be very helpful.
The ones you're talking about are either in the gas or gas piston categories:--->>> https://www.pyramydair.com
Cabela's:--->>> https://www.cabelas.com/catalog/browse/air-rifles/_/N-1100283/Ns-CATEGORY_SEQ_104185980
Amazon:--->>> https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...ywords=air+rifles&rh=i:aps,k:air+rifles&ajr=0
Once you narrow it down to a few models in your price range, then you can search other websites for more user reviews.
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flightsimmer
Member
OK, I went to the Pyramid Web site and found a great 2 part article on (AIR SPRING) power plants.
There is also an excellent article on steel spring power plants.
It pretty much answered all of my questions.
There is also an excellent article on steel spring power plants.
It pretty much answered all of my questions.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
They are a spring. In the industry I work in they are called gas springs and each unit, whether for a car or an airgun has its spring load capacity listed on the side in Newtons.
One of my break barrels is a gas spring, but marketed as a Nitro Piston. The Nitro simply means the spring is charged with the inert gas nitrogen.
The gun shoots like any other Springer in regards to accuracy. However, it is quieter to the shooter's ear due to no coil spring "twang" and it is a little easier to cock for a given power level. Important to note that the gun is not quieter than a coil spring gun to people standing away from the shooter. The muzzle noise for an equal velocity coil spring gun is the same. With no muzzle device on either in my case. I can't speak to the air rifles with muzzle devices for reducing sound as I don't have any.
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D.B. Cooper
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Because powder (22LR) equals firearm and airgun ≠ firearm. I coached the rifle team at the high school where I teach. We couldn't use 22LR because we're a gun free zone. Also, there aren't a lot of lead free 22LR rounds, and, since almost all 10M competition is done indoors, we would have all kinds of HVAC and health issues dealing with firing gun and lead ammo indoors. With a PCP type airgun and non toxic pellets, we get better accuracy (more consistent than springers) without any of the environmental hazards. Additionally, when I'm running an indoor range, I can look at a PCP gun, see that the bottle is removed, and know that the gun is not going to fire. By contrast, I've checked new shooters' crank guns that were supposedly "safe," and they would fire a pellet down range.
Mousegun
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When the word "pneumatic" is used, most think of a pre-charged pneumatic (PCP). If you mean "gas ram" that has a power plant like the device that holds up the hood or trunk of a car, only larger and more powerful, then, so far, your question has not been answered.
Gas rams are not as popular as the other kinds due to the difficulty of cocking them and they exhibit heavy recoil just like a magnum spring gun.
Gas rams are not as popular as the other kinds due to the difficulty of cocking them and they exhibit heavy recoil just like a magnum spring gun.
I'm a springer guy (break barrel only) but I do love pcp. I had to drop the coin and get a Shoebox pump but I think it was worth it.
Mine is a gen 2 Mrod and aside from power I mainly wanted quiet b/c airguns are illegal to shoot in my area, even in my basement. So to get that quiet I made a suppressor extension for it and now it's literally silent except for the hammer and spring. So when fired it sounds just like a dry fire if there was zero air in it, which tickles my happy bone. It's akin to a luxury car that you start but can't tell if it's running except the tach moves. Next on my list is dampening that remaining hammer noise. I'll never let my springers go, at least not my fav ones, but this MRod has pretty much taken, or at least tied, position as my fav airgun.
With many of them being so powerful i worry the gov will put a power limit on them like the UK and Canada, which in the name of safety will likely impact springers too. Poor Canadians are stuck at 500fps, any more and it's considered a full blown firearm in every way. My guess is the trigger will be someone using one in a murder. The gov will no doubt put airguns under control of the BATF which means they will also start enforcing the suppressor law that already exists. No suppressor and a pcp is, imo, pointless.
Mine is a gen 2 Mrod and aside from power I mainly wanted quiet b/c airguns are illegal to shoot in my area, even in my basement. So to get that quiet I made a suppressor extension for it and now it's literally silent except for the hammer and spring. So when fired it sounds just like a dry fire if there was zero air in it, which tickles my happy bone. It's akin to a luxury car that you start but can't tell if it's running except the tach moves. Next on my list is dampening that remaining hammer noise. I'll never let my springers go, at least not my fav ones, but this MRod has pretty much taken, or at least tied, position as my fav airgun.
With many of them being so powerful i worry the gov will put a power limit on them like the UK and Canada, which in the name of safety will likely impact springers too. Poor Canadians are stuck at 500fps, any more and it's considered a full blown firearm in every way. My guess is the trigger will be someone using one in a murder. The gov will no doubt put airguns under control of the BATF which means they will also start enforcing the suppressor law that already exists. No suppressor and a pcp is, imo, pointless.
Those are some interesting county laws....is your county very urban. Here, my county has a few good sized towns, but pretty rural. Inside of many of the city limits there is no difference between any air rifle and a "real" firearm. Out in the country as long as you are not stupid you are good. You might get a visit from LEO, and he will just look and really say be safe.
Where I live (different county from where I work) they built a sub division with houses on 5 ac plots, We had a few visits after it went in.....guessing the new people did not know the laws, did not know I worked for the sheriffs office, and/or just did not like it. Those houses changed hands about once a year. We are about an hour outside of Kansas City, so that might be a bit far for some to drive. Also 5ac is pretty useless, you really can't keep a horse on it, but many tried....they don't like their kiddo's having an hour bus ride....many reasons....and nightly gun fire is one of them.
I totally get your position, and yea in the winter I do quite a bit of pesting, and basement shooting, it really keeps you sharp.
A gas spring and a metal spring do the same job in an airgun.....and really the other folks brought up most of the best points, I will toss a few others I did not see or might have missed.
A gas spring you can leave cocked, metal springs it is not suggested to do that, as the spring will take a set.
Gas springs are generally much more smooth to cock....not sure about the effort being different for a given power level.
Also in the cold there are some interesting things both these spring guns do....I saw an interesting video on them....see if I can find it.
A gas spring you can leave cocked, metal springs it is not suggested to do that, as the spring will take a set.
Gas springs are generally much more smooth to cock....not sure about the effort being different for a given power level.
Also in the cold there are some interesting things both these spring guns do....I saw an interesting video on them....see if I can find it.
I would also toss in there that shooting powerful air spring guns is one of the most difficult things to shoot, I would suggest start in the 500-ish fps range. If you grab the one with the biggest FPS numbers I would bet it is going to be a real challenge to shoot it well.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
As expected. Just like car tires lose pressure when it gets cold outside or CO2 guns lose velocity if fired quickly enough to chill the CO2 cartridge.
Ever notice how gas springs (struts) on car lift gates have less "lift" in them in the winter months?
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chicharrones
needs more ammo
I'll agree with that. The smoothness makes it seem easier to me.
Jenrick
Member
You might be referring to a "single stroke pneumatic?" These were the intermediate between spring guns as gas (CO2 and PCP) guns. In general they are VERY accurate as there is no moving mass in the whole gun except the valve and the pellet when you pull the trigger. These were basically what the WC and Olympics were contested with until the PCP/CO2 guns came out. Even now on accuracy a SSP does not lose anything to a PCP/CO2 gun, it's ergonomics. With the latter you aren't required to cock the action, you don't necessarily have to break position, etc. For folks who aren't trying to win gold medals, they are plenty of rifle for target work, and would certainly work on pests.
WOW, didn’t expect all the negatives on the PCP's. Do all those that were dissing them have one right?
I carry a 642 .38sp and have a single shot .357 rifle and .357 7 shot revolver plus assorted rifles revolvers in other calibers including a daisy pump air rifle
I also reload .38 and .357.
A few months ago I bought a Benjamin Bulldog .357 PCP rifle and have been very impressed with its accuracy and power. It's also very fun to shoot . I also purchased a Benjamin Traveler portable high pressure air compressor to fill the bulldog.
I can shoot 9mm 87gr pellets and 125 and 150 gr .38 bullets. If any of you out there have one of these don't waste your money on the very expensive Nosler bullets or others advertized on the airgun sites. My 125gr and 150gr bullets are cowboy action rounds with a BHN under 10 and .358 diameter. These are very hard hitting and accurate. Just make sure you boil the bullets to get the wax lube off of them otherwise the wax lube will gum up your barrel. Boiling the wax off takes less than a minute and the bullets come out very clean and shiny. Since I only use berry's copper plated bullets for my regular reloading I got these bare lead cowboy action bullets from statelinebullets.com
We can use .30 cal air rifles for deer hunting here in MI. I didn't have enough range time with the bulldog for this last season by this coming fall I'm going out with it.
Buy the way there are some really great big game hunting videos on youtube using the Benjamin bulldog just type “Benjamin bulldog .357 air rifle” in the search line. You will be impressed, and as Rush would say don't doubt me on this.
v-fib
I carry a 642 .38sp and have a single shot .357 rifle and .357 7 shot revolver plus assorted rifles revolvers in other calibers including a daisy pump air rifle
I also reload .38 and .357.
A few months ago I bought a Benjamin Bulldog .357 PCP rifle and have been very impressed with its accuracy and power. It's also very fun to shoot . I also purchased a Benjamin Traveler portable high pressure air compressor to fill the bulldog.
I can shoot 9mm 87gr pellets and 125 and 150 gr .38 bullets. If any of you out there have one of these don't waste your money on the very expensive Nosler bullets or others advertized on the airgun sites. My 125gr and 150gr bullets are cowboy action rounds with a BHN under 10 and .358 diameter. These are very hard hitting and accurate. Just make sure you boil the bullets to get the wax lube off of them otherwise the wax lube will gum up your barrel. Boiling the wax off takes less than a minute and the bullets come out very clean and shiny. Since I only use berry's copper plated bullets for my regular reloading I got these bare lead cowboy action bullets from statelinebullets.com
We can use .30 cal air rifles for deer hunting here in MI. I didn't have enough range time with the bulldog for this last season by this coming fall I'm going out with it.
Buy the way there are some really great big game hunting videos on youtube using the Benjamin bulldog just type “Benjamin bulldog .357 air rifle” in the search line. You will be impressed, and as Rush would say don't doubt me on this.
v-fib
jmorris
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I have pump up and PCP air guns I shoot more than my springers. The springers require the artillery hold to get decent results and are tougher on optics by a good margin, with their recoil.
PCP’s allow faster follow up shots, can be firearm loud though without a moderator, some have lots of shots between fills.
Cant do this with a springer, lots more movement.
PCP’s allow faster follow up shots, can be firearm loud though without a moderator, some have lots of shots between fills.
Cant do this with a springer, lots more movement.
rodinal220
Member
Springer guy for sure. The FWB124D started it all for me many decades ago. PCP has its place. If it gets people into the shooting/hunting fold I'm all for it. Springers and SSP/MSP are my soft spot, I like the built in power plant aspect
I have quite a few pcp guns, up to 25, and really if you want a larger hole it is the only way to go. They are also MUCH more easy to shoot well over any spring gun. If i just want to shoot the One of the PCP's come out....it just works better for the move to powder.
I do love MSP as I grew up on that, but with my health issues all that pumping just hits me too hard....but I do grab one about every time I go out....and even the inexpensive 2100 of today is a really accurate rifle if you take the time to find a pellet it likes....I would stack it up against anything inside of 25 yards all day long....if someone else would do the pumping, after about 10 shots I am really shaky.
The video mirrors my experience as well....On a calm day and if I feed it off a bottle my Chief will do that at 75 yards and it is a 177.
Air guns are getting more trigger time anymore then the powder guns....however this weekend if it is nice I am wanting to test some loads on my Carcano and lever guns.
BrushPopper
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I’m fortunate enough to live on 30 acres surrounded by undeveloped land.
I’ll usually just use a .22 RF if I want more range/power than a springer/MSP/Co2 airgun can provide. Ergo, never got bitten by the PCP bug.
I especially like shooting springers as it takes more practice to keep in shooting trim. Cheap trigger-time and limited range are why I got into airguns in the first place.
(Started back in the ‘70s with a Daisy 880)
But anything that gets new members into the shooting sports and keeps them there is a good thing!
I’ll usually just use a .22 RF if I want more range/power than a springer/MSP/Co2 airgun can provide. Ergo, never got bitten by the PCP bug.
I especially like shooting springers as it takes more practice to keep in shooting trim. Cheap trigger-time and limited range are why I got into airguns in the first place.
(Started back in the ‘70s with a Daisy 880)
But anything that gets new members into the shooting sports and keeps them there is a good thing!
I hear ya...I am in the same boat. However it is nice to itch your trigger finger at ranges past where (I) can shoot a spring rifle well, right out of my garage. Setup a little table and just shoot away....I out of the wind, and I can walk down in my pink bunny slippers rip off a few shots then go inside....it is real fun.
TheDr
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I've been airgunning for over 40 yrs.
I love my springers,and finally bought a Hatsan Edge in .22
Best $100 ever spent. After breaking in,I can headshot squirrels out to 30yards no problem.
Also love PCP.
It has a place. For just a couple hundred bucks,you can get into the PCP game.
The maraurder .25 is my fav.
Whisper quiet...seriously,snapping your fingers makes more noise...and accurate out to 100yards.
Its great for squirrels, and where I live,excellent for coyotes,coons and wild boar. Yes I said boar. The .25 will shoot a 5shot group the size of a dime at 40yards,and at that distance makes a quick kill on these pigs.
So I really like how far air gunning has come,but for a day in the woods,or on the porch knocking squirrels outta the pecan trees,I love my springers.
I love my springers,and finally bought a Hatsan Edge in .22
Best $100 ever spent. After breaking in,I can headshot squirrels out to 30yards no problem.
Also love PCP.
It has a place. For just a couple hundred bucks,you can get into the PCP game.
The maraurder .25 is my fav.
Whisper quiet...seriously,snapping your fingers makes more noise...and accurate out to 100yards.
Its great for squirrels, and where I live,excellent for coyotes,coons and wild boar. Yes I said boar. The .25 will shoot a 5shot group the size of a dime at 40yards,and at that distance makes a quick kill on these pigs.
So I really like how far air gunning has come,but for a day in the woods,or on the porch knocking squirrels outta the pecan trees,I love my springers.
Comrade Mike
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My experience is primarily with Anschutz PCP's from my days of Olympic 10m air gun. IMO the 9015 is the best PCP money can buy, if you have the pockets for it from a precision stand point. They're fantastically accurate.
I have a 'self-contained' PCP (mine is .25cal):
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/precharged-pcp/fx-independence/
Alternatively, you can get hand pumps or electric pumps and storage cylinders.
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/pcp-accessories/hill-mk4-air-pump-with-dry-air-system/
You don't need to pay for air
Love it Sharp Dog. I so want to try out PCP, but paying $200 for just the pump.....
From a fairly empty cylinder, how many "pumps" does it take to fill'er'up?
Of course you're not paying for the air. You're paying for somebody else to pump it for you.
From a fairly empty cylinder, how many "pumps" does it take to fill'er'up?
Of course you're not paying for the air. You're paying for somebody else to pump it for you.
My rifle has the pump on it. So it takes 25 pumps for 8 shots. Each is equivalent to a .22 short. The FX Independence is a high-end air rifle and lists for $1600. It is easily more accurate to 100 yards than any other firearm I have. Also it is very easy to pump. Here are some youtube videos that are pretty accurate:
This one also covers an electric pump for heavy volume users:
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