Is chat about the NZ decision to ban semi-auto rifles prohibited here?

Article I just read said the government is gonna ban all semi-auto rifles ... and then write the legislation/laws later.

I noticed they cast quite a big wide net surrounding this guy including fact that he travelled through Europe suggesting he may have radicalized there. They are going for maximum effect with this tragic event. We will all have to make real effort to love everyone and accept them with arms wide open for a hug.

They capitulated to the goals of a mad man at record speed.

I liked the part about 'reasonable compensation' for their proposed buy-back plan. Wonder what 'reasonable' means to someone who hates guns? Bet OUR 'reasonable' is a bit higher than theirs?

RecoilRob said:

I liked the part about 'reasonable compensation' for their proposed buy-back plan. Wonder what 'reasonable' means to someone who hates guns? Bet OUR 'reasonable' is a bit higher than theirs?

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Wonder what compensation for an AR15 will be. The going trade in rate for Colt AR clone ie Ruger, S&W, Remington is about $250.

The human boiling point seems to be body count in a concentrated time frame; ones, twos, threes, do not seem to bring down anywhere near the same wrath as the twenty-fives and such. Around the St. Louis area news, it is perfectly normal to wake in the morning, turn on the TV news and hear the report of a one, two, three count shooting - drink coffee and head out the door to work. There is even what is called “The Triangle” in the northern portion if the city where the majority of the shootings/ killings take place - it is very “normal” news in this area - the sun will rise, rush hour traffic will be heavy and people will be shot in The Triangle almost every day. These two extreme human reactions to the exact same outcome seems very strange to me - I guess if you are seeking the highest level of attention when being shot, make sure you are shot with many other people; sort of like always get killed in a car accident on a major holiday weekend, the body count is high, the records are always compared to last year’s holiday and your holiday vehicle accident death will always achieve more significance than being killed on “just another day”.

Steve S. said:

The human boiling point seems to be body count in a concentrated time frame; ones, twos, threes, do not seem to bring down anywhere near the same wrath as the twenty-fives and such. Around the St. Louis area news, it is perfectly normal to wake in the morning, turn on the TV news and hear the report of a one, two, three count shooting - drink coffee and head out the door to work. There is even what is called “The Triangle” in the northern portion if the city where the majority of the shootings/ killings take place - it is very “normal” news in this area - the sun will rise, rush hour traffic will be heavy and people will be shot in The Triangle almost every day. These two extreme human reactions to the exact same outcome seems very strange to me - I guess if you are seeking the highest level of attention when being shot, make sure you are shot with many other people; sort of like always get killed in a car accident on a major holiday weekend, the body count is high, the records are always compared to last year’s holiday and your holiday vehicle accident death will always achieve more significance than being killed on “just another day”.

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In most large cities few per day is a normal symptom in society full of guns. These are usially associated with drugs and/or gangs. Mass shootings are outside of norm and can affect anyone unlucky to be present when they occur.

Erik M said:

They capitulated to the goals of a mad man at record speed.

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I have not followed this close, did his note....I hate the word manifesto.....state his goals, All I have read it is was along the same lines as the thing in Norway. I can't seem to find them online as well.

I tend to like to educate myself before making statements, so if someone could point me to a link that would be great.

Steve S. said:

The human boiling point seems to be body count in a concentrated time frame; ones, twos, threes, do not seem to bring down anywhere near the same wrath as the twenty-fives and such. Around the St. Louis area news, it is perfectly normal to wake in the morning, turn on the TV news and hear the report of a one, two, three count shooting - drink coffee and head out the door to work. There is even what is called “The Triangle” in the northern portion if the city where the majority of the shootings/ killings take place - it is very “normal” news in this area - the sun will rise, rush hour traffic will be heavy and people will be shot in The Triangle almost every day. These two extreme human reactions to the exact same outcome seems very strange to me - I guess if you are seeking the highest level of attention when being shot, make sure you are shot with many other people; sort of like always get killed in a car accident on a major holiday weekend, the body count is high, the records are always compared to last year’s holiday and your holiday vehicle accident death will always achieve more significance than being killed on “just another day”.

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Same in KC, there is a shooting about every day.....the joys of living in a big city....I just live close to one. But where I live and work, a bit south, it is starting to trickle down.

But you know the bad guys know not to come down here. They know we will chase them to the ends of the earth, we have chased them up to the legends before (a shopping center pretty far north of us, at least an hour away at normal highway speeds)....and when we catch them we usually hear oh we did not know we crossed into your county....everyone knows not to go there.

That kinda tells you something.....lock the ______s up and they tend to stay away......but then the courts will let them go and it starts all over again.

fpgt72 said:

I have not followed this close, did his note....I hate the word manifesto.....state his goals, All I have read it is was along the same lines as the thing in Norway. I can't seem to find them online as well.

I tend to like to educate myself before making statements, so if someone could point me to a link that would be great.

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Please be patient it takes the experts some time to write one. His goals must be incompatible with thoughts of normal individuals.

paulsj said:

Please be patient it takes the experts some time to write one. His goals must be incompatible with thoughts of normal individuals.

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I like the way you think.

Old Dog said:

Article I just read said the government is gonna ban all semi-auto rifles ... and then write the legislation/laws later.

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They should contact Nancy P she’ll have a rough draft to send them.

So far everything I have read is out of the usual anti-gun playbook used in the United States. A willing media hyping the need to ban guns, how semi-auto rifles are only used by farmers who support banning them and a politician that is pushing to ban them before the victims were even buried. There does not appear to be a national organization for protecting the rights of gun owners there.

NZ is a small island that believes it can isolate itself from the harshness of the rest of the world. I wonder if they will look to tighten their immigration laws also?

Despite the liberal leanings I listen to NPR as I get ready for work each day. The latest I heard from them is this.

NZ is banning semi auto rifles, shotguns, and pistols with detachable magazines. I did not hear a specific capacity limit. This seems unlikely to me as "all semi auto firearms seems ridiculous. NPR may have it wrong, maybe it is not that inclusive. When I heard that this morning, all I could think was "Wow, so the S&W 627 is about to become very popular there."

I heard this morning the estimate is it will cost the government 140 million.

I heard an interview with a hunter in NZ who hunts feral goats like we hunt feral hogs in this country. Obviously when taking shots at a large number of targets, a higher capacity semiauto rifle is going to be a lot more effective than a bolt action. Fortunately I do not believe feral goats are anywhere near as dangerous as hogs are. There is a shooting and hunting culture in NZ, and this interview sounded exactly like ones I've heard in America, just with a different accent. Personally I feel terrible for the victims, the victims families, but also for the law abiding gun owners who are now being attacked and oppressed by their government as a snap reaction to a horrible event. I am guessing it is a politically motivated move, just like they are here whenever gun control comes up.

I apologize for the conjectural and, most likely, partially inaccurate comments, but this is simply what NPR has reported since the unfortunate incident. My own feelings are mixed in too, so take my post with a grain of salt.

I feel terrible for the law abiding gun owners there. They are being victimized for a crime they didn't commit. We frequently complain in the US that regulated items are unfair, this is no good, and that is no good. The reality is that we have a lot of rights citizens of other countries do not. We are lucky in the US.

I will never understand a government that feels disarming its citizens after a terrorist attack makes sense. There is no logic here. Spock would cry.

There are several NZ firearms organizations.

The argument for removing the firearms is that is will make it more difficult for terrorists to use them easily. That is an empirical question for the researchers. In the USA, the existing stocks of military style semi automatic guns (note - this is what they are called now to avoid gun fans from having fits about what is an 'assault' rifle), were such that the AWB had no effect.

That's why current proposals have no grandfathering and mandatory turn ins. Reduce the stock and reduce the risk. The question is whether the hidden stocks of gun that are not turned in, will surface in crime or terrorism and will the rate of usage be reduced.

That's the logic. I have been in the professional seminars discussing such.

We are lucky to be in the USA.......however there is a bill out there that would mean the return of the Assault weapons ban and 10 round magazine limits again in every state.
My state still has an AWB and 10 round mag limit. (I fear it may spread and become the norm?)
Must stock up more 10 round mags! (they will become very valuable in the future)

GEM said:

There are several NZ firearms organizations.

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That is good to hear. I wish them success.

460Shooter said:

Despite the liberal leanings I listen to NPR as I get ready for work each day. The latest I heard from them is this.

Last I heard there are 250,000 firearms this would pertain to in the country and since a license is required, I'm guessing they have fairly accurate data. I also heard this morning the estimate is it will cost the government 140 million. Quick math indicates that would be an average of $560 of buy back value. Or, if the initial 250,000 guns only included semiauto rifles in that number, but now they plan to take pistols also, that number of guns may be much higher.
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This is a quote from a NY Times article today on the situation in NZ, it has a considerably different idea of the number of guns there:

"Mr. Alpers said the challenge for New Zealand would mainly be getting the ammunition and guns that already exist out of circulation. Half of Australia’s states had some kind of gun registration plan in place before the 1996 reforms, making it easier for the authorities to know what weapons were out there and what needed to be brought in.

New Zealand only registers 4 percent of its weapons. According to the police, about 250,000 people in the country own an estimated 1.2 million to 1.5 million firearms. It is unclear how many of them would be affected by the ban.

“New Zealand is at a considerable disadvantage to countries that have had registries, because there’s no way of tracing the firearms because they don’t know who’s got them,” Mr. Alpers said. “We’re relying entirely on the honesty of the gun owner to turn it in.”

So if semi autos get banned could you order a un-ported barrel and turn into a straight pull bolt? My guessing as fast as they're trying to move - no. But it's an idea.

Speedo66 said:

Mr. Alpers said the challenge for New Zealand would mainly be getting the ammunition and guns that already exist out of circulation. Half of Australia’s states had some kind of gun registration plan in place before the 1996 reforms, making it easier for the authorities to know what weapons were out there and what needed to be brought in.

New Zealand only registers 4 percent of its weapons. According to the police, about 250,000 people in the country own an estimated 1.2 million to 1.5 million firearms. It is unclear how many of them would be affected by the ban.

“New Zealand is at a considerable disadvantage to countries that have had registries, because there’s no way of tracing the firearms because they don’t know who’s got them,” Mr. Alpers said. “We’re relying entirely on the honesty of the gun owner to turn it in.”

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That is in conflict to what I heard. But again, I think the accuracy of the media is in question on all sides. In the interest of saving confusion, I'm going to edit my post.

This is what happens when you're not free to begin with. When you have no constitutional protections in place. You're at the mercy of the whims of your government. People need to realize how unique and exceptional the United States is, in the history of mankind. Rather than trying to throw it all away by making it more like Europe. We separated ourselves from European chains in 1776, for a reason.

Steve S. said:

The human boiling point seems to be body count in a concentrated time frame; ones, twos, threes, do not seem to bring down anywhere near the same wrath as the twenty-fives and such.

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By definition a mass shooting is four or more dead not counting the shooter. A mass shooting is more inflammatory and therefore sucks in more viewers (ratings) and hooks people easier.

Here's some details on the precise bans:

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/closer-zealands-weapons-ban-61833297

Since they don't see a defense against tyranny argument has reasonable, the ban will probably be supported. Expect it to popular in more states here as time progresses. BTW, 5 is enough seems to be a popular numerical limit on capacity. Remember that when someone asks that again in a gun forum.