Lyman M die and other options

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mstreddy

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OK folks, I know that Lyman has the M die and there are some others that are similar. I think Redding is one, but are there others that make something similar to expand brass without excessive belling for cast bullet use?

I load lead cast in 9MM, 38 Spcl/357 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 40 S&W, and 30-30 Win. I will start loading 223 Rem, 308 Win, 300 Blackout, and some other 30 cals with lead as well.

In 45 ACP, I'm still getting the shaving of a lead sliver even though I'm belling the mouth a lot! In 9MM it's not as bad, but I want to have a decent flare for the lead bullets without over doing it.

I'm looking at what other options to the Lyman there are out there. I'd rather buy other brands, if I can. And, if anyone has experience with the NOE expanders with the Lee die let me know how that works please.
 
I assume you are casting Lead Bullets, if so, I suggest using Gas Checked Molds as the will taper the bottom of the bullet, thus allolwing them to load with out shearing lead off.

Good Luck
dg
 
In 45 ACP, I'm still getting the shaving of a lead sliver even though I'm belling the mouth a lot!

Are you crimping with your seating die in one operation, or separately? It sounds like the shaving might be happening from crimping too much. Its hard not to get some occasional lead shaving unless you do it separately. Different lengths of brass is the main culprit.
 
frogfurr, what do you mean by the M die is not an option on the progressive? Also which features of the Lyman make it better than the others in your opinion?
I load all of my pistol and some of the rifle on my Hornady LNL AP. So, curious as to why it wouldn't work?

Dgod, some of my moulds are Gas checked, some plain based, and some bevel based.
I'm only using gas checked for some of the rifle. I've looked for bevel base on the pistol moulds when possible.

Laphroaig, I am in fact seating and crimping in one step. I'll have to check the crimping and back off and readjust as needed. Thanks for that tip.
 
frogfurr, what do you mean by the M die is not an option on the progressive? Also which features of the Lyman make it better than the others in your opinion?
I load all of my pistol and some of the rifle on my Hornady LNL AP. So, curious as to why it wouldn't work?

Dgod, some of my moulds are Gas checked, some plain based, and some bevel based.
I'm only using gas checked for some of the rifle. I've looked for bevel base on the pistol moulds when possible.

Laphroaig, I am in fact seating and crimping in one step. I'll have to check the crimping and back off and readjust as needed. Thanks for that tip.

I need to rephrase this. A Lyman M die is not an option on my Dillon 550 progressive because of the lack of stations on the 550. If you have room on your LNL AP for an M die then give 'er a go. You did not mention what press you were asking about in the original post.

The Lyman M die is a flaring die with a short step at the top. Hard to explain if one has never used one. It is that short step at the top that makes the M die better.
 
Frogfurr, understood. The LNL does have 5 stations and I'd be replacing the expander that comes with my pistol die sets. So, no net change. In rifle, it would be an addition, but it would help.

I'm aware of the step on the M die, and I know some others are duplicating that feature. In looking through Midway's big book on reloading gear I saw many things, but it's unclear which dies from which companies are similar to the M die. So, I was left more confused than when I started and thus turned to the collective brain trust here.

I'm asking for opinions, and options, as I'm not a big Lyman fan due to poor experience with their customer service and support in the past.
 
I am not a big fan of Lyman either. But a Lyman M die is what they say a M die is. I know from experience that an M die is a very good choice. They are only about 20 bucks. Try one.

Double Alpha sells a powder funnel for progressives that has the same features (or so they say) of an M die but I have not tried it yet.
 
I went through a M-Die phase too. Don't use it anymore since I got my 550B. I think its main benefit is to create a small shelf that allows the bullet to sit straighter before it enters the seating die.

If the lead shaving is your main concern, find a way to crimp in another station. A Lee FCD or another seating die with the plug removed or backed out will cure that problem, and is just a better way to load lead bullets.
 
RCBS has a very good Tube Rifle Bullet Feeder that comes in .223 and .308. Why would you care?

Well, besides the fact that they have a similar technology using ball bearings in those feeder dies, that work as efficiently and trouble free as Mr. Bullet Feeder's rifle bullet feeder dies.......they COME with a separate "M" die. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019640929/rcbs-tube-rifle-bullet-feeder

I bought them both, and they work as advertised. Love mine.

They were introduced at the 2018 Shot Show.....with no fan fare. I will never understand RCBS marketing.
 
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RCBS has a very good Tube Rifle Bullet Feeder that comes in .223 and .308. Why would you care?

Well, besides the fact that they have a similar technology using ball bearings in those feeder dies, that work as efficiently and trouble free as Mr. Bullet Feeder's rifle bullet feeder dies.......they COME with a seperate "M" die. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019640929/rcbs-tube-rifle-bullet-feeder

I bought them both, and they work as advertised. Love mine.

They were introduced at the 2018 Shot Show.....with no fan fare. I will never understand RCBS marketing.

So this is literally the FIRST time I have seen these. You may have mentioned something about them awhile ago and I was trying to figure out what you were talking about. Somebody left a 2 star rating and it appears couldn't get their's working well. I wonder if the some of the mr. bulletfeeder patents ran out or ? They are the only ones who made the ball bearing dropper that I know of.
 
I know, no one knows about it......makes me wonder if it was made as part of a new future rifle bullet feeder/collator for the Pro Chuckers......they do have such a thing for the old Pro 2000........but that feeder die was a feed and seat die like Hornady did, but based on their above-the-dieplate feeding Competition or Gold Medal Seaters. I never bought that product....too rich for me. I did buy a Gold Medal Seater and like that one.

This new product uses bearings, but differently. I did do a mini review of it here on THR. The instruction sheet is not ample...but useful enough that I figured it out. I mistakenly bought the .223 when I really wanted the .308 at Midway. An easy mistake to make since they sell both from the same page. However I liked the .223 so much, I went ahead and bought the .308 too. Looks like I need to do a review on Midway to counter the 2 rating......mine will be five. They work every time, when adjusted correctly and the M die opens the cases enough....depending on how you adjust the M die that comes with it.

One thought hit me....maybe the no fanfare is for a reason. Maybe it's a patent test, testing whether it's far enough different from MBF's to not spark litigation......no fanfare and no collator for the test.........

I've heard RCBS has some surprise products due out this summer that they are so far mum about....hmmm?
 
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I'm looking at what other options to the Lyman there are out there. I'd rather buy other brands, if I can.
I have a Lyman M-die that I used for the issue you are talking about. RCBS and Redding have copied the profile of the M-die for their expanders.

I'm using the Redding versions, on my Hornady LNL AP, for 9mm and .38Spl...the Lyman is now being used for loading .45ACP (I have multiple inserts)
 
My Experience: YMMV! I have kinda of a love hate relationship with Lyman M dies. I do have experience with both NOE and Lee. The NOE is tops. Take a look at the website for your choices. Right now I'm using a .310 NOE expander to do 308 cases for lead bullets. The NOE expander fits into the Lee expander body. The Lee expander works well also. Both the Lee and the Lyman have to be adjusted to avoid the trumpet mouth on the case. My M die for 45 caliber rifle works very well for seating wad columns in BP rounds. With M dies you have two die bodies and separate stems. If you go with the M die get M-1 and M-2 bodies and a source for the expander stems. You don't have to buy the entire dies for each caliber. Of the Lee and NOE the M die comes a distant third.

Addendum: My experience-If there is insufficient neck expansion the bullet can be cocked during seating. As the bullet goes into the case these little slivers can be shaved off. I'm going to have to reset my 550B to expand the necks more. This was going on last night.
 
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Frogfurr, understood. The LNL does have 5 stations and I'd be replacing the expander that comes with my pistol die sets. So, no net change. In rifle, it would be an addition, but it would help.

I'm aware of the step on the M die, and I know some others are duplicating that feature. In looking through Midway's big book on reloading gear I saw many things, but it's unclear which dies from which companies are similar to the M die. So, I was left more confused than when I started and thus turned to the collective brain trust here.

I'm asking for opinions, and options, as I'm not a big Lyman fan due to poor experience with their customer service and support in the past.

RCBS makes their cowboy dies that has a psudo M-die in it, I find it unlikely they make one in .45 ACP, but the .45 Colt die may work well enough.

You might also check your seat stem... if you are using the round bullet profile on a flat point bullet, or vice versa, the bullet may not seat straight and shave lead. My guess is, however, you are seeing a ring of lead because you are seating and crimping in the same step. If you want to check it, back the crimp completely off and seat some bullets... is the shaving still apparent?

I'm lucky, I bought a 5-station Hornady press just because it had 5 stations... so I can crimp in a separate step.
 
I like the Redding and Lyman M dies for standard diameter jacketed bullet. The bullet seats straight and you never have to over bell the cases. My Lyman and Redding expander dies have the same dimensions. However, when I am loading an oversized lead bullet, I use the NEO expander plugs mentioned above, They come in several sizes for each caliber depending on the dimension of your bullet. They recommend purchasing the expander plug that is .001 larger than the diameter of the bullet you are seating. The expander plugs are very inexpensive and you only need to purchase one Lee Universal Case expander.

They will also make you a custom plug if you have some crazy application.

Hope that helps
 
I'm asking for opinions, and options, as I'm not a big Lyman fan due to poor experience with their customer service and support in the past.

I am not a big fan of Lyman either. But a Lyman M die is what they say a M die is. I know from experience that an M die is a very good choice. They are only about 20 bucks. Try one.
I'm also not a fan of Lyman but sometimes you have to do what's good for you. While I really don't want to give them anybody my money I also don't want to spite myself to hurt them. Sometimes you have to do things to help yourself even if it doesn't taste good.
 
The NOE expanders run $6.50 each. I stand by what a say about these expanders. You got flexibility with the NOE expanders that exceeds the M die by light years. Check it out. Lou's run a modest $68.00. See what kind of choices you have with NOE. The NOE expanders are for rifle or handgun. Google M expander stems. There are other suppliers of custom M dies stems our there. Remember, there are two die bodies. Get the M-1 and M2 die body. Get the body then add the stems. The NOE's use the Lee expander for a die body. .
 
Lyman M series expander plug is threaded into the adjuster rod. I had one expander plug come loose come loose and badly upsetting the adjustment.
 
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