Mini Lathe for the home armory

Status
Not open for further replies.

KY DAN

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Messages
851
So I don't really have a back ground in this kind of thing but it seems like a good idea, I have worked in factories and around metal makers so I only know a few things that may not even be correct. It mostly a tax return impulse buy if anything else. I am going to get a harbor freight 8x12 lathe and going to get a 5 inch 4 jaw chuck for it as well as the harbor freight quick change tool post, and a handful of HSS tool blanks. What can go wrong lol. Does anyone have any thoughts for the smaller lathe setup as pertaining to be most useful to gun work? Pictures of others setups would be useful as well. Thanks
 
I don't have too much to add, but I'm in exactly the same position you are. I just recenty bought a lathe (9 x 30 Lathemaster) and am in the process of getting it set up.

Depending on what you want to do with the lathe, you will probably want to get as large of a spindle bore as you can. If you can pass a barrel through the spindle, that makes it much easier to do chambers and threading. As you move further away from the chuck, any errors in alignment/concentricity become magnified. I haven't been able to find many benchtop lathes (at least ones that I would consider to be affordable) that are large enough to pass a barrel through the spindle, so if you want that you'll probably need to move up to a larger lathe.

I would also be sure that the lathe can cut standard and metric threads. A cats head is also something I would put on the list to get/make.

Once I learn the basics and have some starter projects under my belt, I plan to work on some form 1 suppressors (where the spindle bore won't be an issue). I might also try my hand at threading pistol barrels or shorter rifle barrels.

@MachIVshooter was very helpful with some of my questions related to the specific lathe I was buying - he might be able to chime in with his thoughts on using a small lathe for gunsmithing.
 
I agree, MachIV Shooter would be the expert in this area, both for machine selection and doing machine work. A machinist can make gun parts, but that doesn't necessarily make him a gunsmith. MachIV is very good at both.
 
What kind of Lathe work are you planning on doing? The 8x12 should be fine for trimming and neck turning rifle brass... I am sceptical about how much actual gunsmithing work it is going to be capable of.

I started with an Atlas 12x36 lathe and it was OK for a starting lathe. The spindle bore was too small to hold a barrel. My Atlas did not come with change gears or a gear box so any kind of barrel threading was out. After several years of looking I found a really good deal ($1000) on a Southbend 13x40 lathe with a 1.5" spindle bore and of course it came with a gear box for threading. It has opened up a whole new world of home gunsmithing for me! I can finally rebarrel the cheap Turkish Mausers I bought back in the 90's.

Personally I think a 8x12 HF lathe is a waste of money and you would be much better off putting that money towards a good used lathe that you will not outgrow before you get it out of the box.
 
Last edited:
Personally I think a 8x12 HF lathe is a waste of money and you would be much better off putting that money towards a good used lathe that you will not outgrow before you get it out of the box.
Having been a machinist (among many other things) for more than 40 years, I agree completely with Mike. Unless one has the money to buy a full-fledged (not mini) lathe brand new. And stay away from Harbor Freight in this instance. Look at Jet, for lower cost new.
 
I have a Homier 7x12 mini lathe, it has a 3/4" spindle bore, many barrels can pass thru from the muzzle end, I cut muzzle crown on a Garand with it. It is handy and capable to do small jobs such as making small parts. Go slow, cut steel just fine. I bought it many years ago at < $400. Now the 8x12 is $1K, I would get a bigger lathe with 1.25" spindle bore if spending that much but big lathe needs a place to sit! My 7x12 is table top and I can move it around easily. I like my mini. Regret I didn't get a mini mill when they can be had at around another $400! I have a milling attachment that I can covert my mini lathe to mill if I wish to. Never bother so far.
 
I have the smaller HF and it has it's drawbacks.
The slowest feed rate is too fast for me, the cross slide/compound slide needed a lot of work to get the gibs adj., the lead screw has a lot of end play, and the feed screw has a lot of backlash in the nut and end play.
The carriage has no clamp and drifts when facing and the dials are not direct reading.
Here's some sights with lots of good info that deals with the HF and other small benchtop lathes:

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Tuning/tuning.htm
http://varmintal.com/alath.htm
https://littlemachineshop.com/

You might change your mind about what to buy after visiting those sights.
Thank me later,
:D
edit: oh, and the spindle bearings suck too
 
Last edited:
The problems abound with many of the cheap import lathes and mills. They are simply not accurate enough to do good work without substantial investment in time and money to make right what should have been done at the factory. Of course for the price they ask it is almost understandable that they cannot deliver. I am with those who say save you money and buy a good used older lathe, preferably American made, that has the basic quality and capacity to do what you will want to do. Even if worn, they are able to be reconditioned to like new for many more years of service, something the cheap imports will never be able to do.
 
I have a 9x20 lathe and can say the longer I have it the more uses I find for it. Also as has been said it’s not the most accurate for fine work but it works more times than not for what I’m doing. Occasionally I have to get my dad to do something with his larger lathe, and 50 years of experience as a machinist.

I’ll also add, while I’m not sure about all the mini lathes (like the 7x12’s) but I do know the 9x20’s are all the same, mine is a central machinery, it’s the exact same lathe as the Jet 9x20 and the Grizzly 9x20, seems like there are more but those three come to mind. They’re just different colors with different names. When I order parts I actually order from the grizzly web sight, literally the exact same lathe. Point is, shop for price, and I’ll throw parts availability In as well because some of the parts are junk, plastic gears and such.

FWIW, I’ve never used mine for anything firearms related, but I’m sure I will someday.
 
I'm in the same boat, after stalking the youtubes and the interwebs, I'm not sure if the mini lathes are the way to go. Even watching Frank Hoose on YT, who seems to be quite an advocate for the mini import machines, i get the feeling i may end up doing as much work to the lathe as I do on it. Around here, smaller Atlas or South Bend lathes come up every now and then in the 1k-2k range. That seems like a lot compared to the 500-800 for the mini import jobs, but the larger used lathes often come with a good bit of tooling. If I keep watching guys like This Old Tony on YT, I may just end up getting a lathe, milling machine, vise, rotary table.....wind up making a $10k barrel bushing:D
 
Don't let others fool you that machine has the weight and the rigidness to do anything you want assuming it will it between centers or in the bore. How do I know this because I have the exact same machine. It is amazing and I will be glad to tell you some tips and tricks about it if you would like. The threads are limited but with a 4 jaw chuck your only limited by your mind as to what that machine can accomplish.
 
@MachIVshooter was very helpful with some of my questions related to the specific lathe I was buying - he might be able to chime in with his thoughts on using a small lathe for gunsmithing.

I'll offer what I can!

The first good rule to observe in buying a lathe is, buy the most you can afford and have space for. Nobody ever wished they'd bought a smaller or cheaper machine. If you're in an apartment, yeah, you're kinda limited to bench top machines. But if you have a garage, I'm sure you can make space for a smaller floor standing machine. The Southbend Heavy 10L is kind of a gold standard for the hobbyist, with a good sized through bore (1.5"), quick change gear box with lots of threads & feeds, generally good weight and rigidity for it's small footprint and rather scant ~700 lbs, and amazing new, used and aftermarket parts & accessory support. And yes, 700 lbs is light for a serious lathe; my big guy is over two tons. Of course, if money is no object, a somewhat compact (but about 2,000 lb) machine that is simply amazing is the Hardinge HLV-H E/M, but they go north of $15k on the used market. That said, the 20" center distance of the HLV-H is a bit short for gunsmithing work.

My two primary machines are the big 17x60 Rahn Larmon and my Hardinge HCT. The HCT has an auto threader, and is used for most of my chambering and barrel threading work.

index.php


It has a 1.4" though bore, which has been sufficient to indicate the bore of almost every barrel I've needed to thread (remember, just being able to squeeze the barrel through the spindle isn't enough, need to be able to move it around to get bore concentric & axially aligned).

index.php


index.php


Some barrels have features that preclude using the Hardinge; those go in a monster 6x22" cat's head I made for the Rahn-Larmon:

index.php


As you can see, being able to use a cat's head for a rifle barrel requires a pretty good amount of center distance, since your carriage has to be able to work out past the depth of the chuck + length of barrel, which could easily be 28" for a 24" barrel.

Some guys do try to thread between centers or using a steady rest, but the problem is bore concentricity and axial alignment. I have never, and I mean never, found a rifle barrel which had a bore that the last 1.5" was perfectly concentric and axially aligned with the plane from chamber to muzzle. Not a big deal if you're just putting a brake or comp on, but it doesn't take much run out to have a baffle strike if you're gonna run suppressed. My concentricity is dialed to <.0003" run out, and axial alignment not deviating by more than .0005" per inch. I have never had a baffle strike reported on a barrel I've threaded.

At any rate, I'm not suggesting that the hobbyist needs to invest in the kind of equipment I have to do work professionally, but most people find the little bench top machines pretty lacking. If the deal is good enough, sure, never hurts to have a fast spinning little guy around for polishing and secondary ops anyway (I have an Atlas 618 for that), but if you can find one and swing it, you'll be much happier with something like a Heavy 10, or at least a 10x36 or 12x36 Atlas/Craftsman/Clausing machine. And I would say hard pass on most of the bigger import machines, don't hold tolerances and don't hold up, plus sound like a bucket of bolts when running. Jet machines are better than most Asian imports, but still pale in comparison to American or European equipment. A buddy of mine had a Grizzly G4003G 12x36 that he thought was pretty decent. After running my Hardinge and Rahn-Larmon, he put the thing up for sale and used the proceeds to buy an 18x72 Cincinnati Tray Top.

Don't let others fool you that machine has the weight and the rigidness to do anything you want assuming it will it between centers or in the bore. How do I know this because I have the exact same machine. It is amazing and I will be glad to tell you some tips and tricks about it if you would like. The threads are limited but with a 4 jaw chuck your only limited by your mind as to what that machine can accomplish.

Negative, bat man. It's a wiggly 200 lb benchtop gear changer without enough spindle bore or center distance to do anything involving rifles. I'd take a well used Atlas 618/Craftsman 101.200 over any of the Harbor-Freight minis any day. Much smoother, 50% more center distance, and are true back geared machines with all metal parts. Yes, I had HF minis as a youngster. Key word had.
 
Negative, bat man. It's a wiggly 200 lb benchtop gear changer without enough spindle bore or center distance to do anything involving rifles. I'd take a well used Atlas 618/Craftsman 101.200 over any of the Harbor-Freight minis any day. Much smoother, 50% more center distance, and are true back geared machines with all metal parts. Yes, I had HF minis as a youngster. Key word had.[/QUOTE]


I respectfully disagree the OP never stated his intent and if you read what I said, " assuming it will it between centers or in the bore" they are great machines. Now I program and set up and manufacture parts on a daily basis using $500,000 Okuma turning center. The HF lathe is not that do not compare it in the least. For people wanting to do handgun, small barrel, maybe some homemade firearms then the HF lathe is plenty. And I will stress again one is only limited by the confines of one's own mind. Have fun and get creative
 
Having run lathes since the 70s (18”x96” , 14” x60”, and a neat little craftsman 6”x18”?) I’ll only say this.
Don’t cut yourself short right out of the gate! A 12”x36” should be the very smallest you should consider in the gun industry.
The smaller ones are a hoot to play with, but if you skills and interest grow, you will have to spend that money again.
Jmtcw
 
Everytime I think it would be cool to get a metal lathe, I read the forum postings and decide to simply have my projects done by others (usually barrel work) as the cost overall is much cheaper with no learning curve. Same reason I do not have a welder although I have welded in the past and did not care for it.
 
Ooh boy a lathe thread!

While not a professional myself, I was trained by one. I started on a 1950s south bend 9" belt drive. Moved to a Clausing 14x48 gearhead. Ran a 60s south bend turn-ado 16x72 (I think) a couple times. I've run $50k Haas and Mazak cncs, a horizontal mill, Bridgeport's, and a retro-CNC eagle mill.

I've also run a Harbor Freight style benchtop unit that was real bad. Yeah it worked, but I wouldn't use it for anything precise or anything made of steel. A hotrod buddy uses it to make aluminum stuff for his cars. It does what he needs, and can do more than he needs. But having run an "actual" lathe, I'd never bother buying one.

When I wanted a lathe, I chose a Grizzly gunsmithing lathe/mill combo. The lathe portion is the same one (g4003) posted above. I have no issues with the way it runs. It produces great finishes and has quite a bit of power. No, it's not a 10k+ Clausing or South Bend unit, but I didnt need that.

It weighs over 1000 lbs, and is quite sturdy. It has a large spindle bore, 3 and 4 jaw chucks and a quick change tool post. I'm happy with my decision, as it was in my budget. Dont forget, you'll spend at least 10% of the machine cost in tooling to go with it.
 
I have 2 lathes, a Harbor Freight 7x10", #93212, and a Grizzly 9x19", G4000. I do not use either to anything like their full potential, but then I am not a professional machinist. One thing you might want to consider is that, when some of the people here are touting the virtues of their 1,000 pound plus machines, if you have to move them you are SOL unless you have a LOT of skilled help. And heavy machinery. Both of mine run on 120V, single phase electricity, which is what most folks have.

Before buying, you might want to check out
https://littlemachineshop.com/

From their web site:
LittleMachineShop.com focuses on replacement parts and accessories for 7x10, 7x12, 7x14, and 7x16 Lathes; Mini Mills; and Micro Mills.

We stock every part for the mini lathes, mini mills, and micro mills from LittleMachineShop.com, Micro-Mark, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, BusyBee, and Clarke. Go ahead: break any part on your machine. We have a replacement. Our Replacement Parts page makes it easy to find the part you need. We even have the parts diagram if you don't know the name of the part.
 
I would look used and as big as you can.

Extras “thrown in” with a used one can add up really quick. I have also seen lots of old and perfectly functional machine equipment sell for scrap prices at auctions.
 
Yeah my grizzly was not an easy move. But it does come apart for easier transport. We used a forklift to load it up on the trailer and a Farmall 560 with a loader to unload it. An engine hoist or gantry crane will help set it up.

It does use 220v, but only 15amps, so wiring is pretty simple. Mine is on it's own breaker, then through a switched outlet.
 
One thing you might want to consider is that, when some of the people here are touting the virtues of their 1,000 pound plus machines, if you have to move them you are SOL unless you have a LOT of skilled help. And heavy machinery.

Eh, machines under 1,500 pounds aren't too bad, can be picked up & loaded on/off trailers with engine hoists, moved into place with said hoists or even dragged/pushed across smooth floors.

It gets much more interesting when the machines weight two tons or more, though!

This is my Pedersen VPF-21 40 taper uni mill, about 5,500#. We had to chain around the structure, arms wouldn't lift it with the extra few inches leverage being attached to the bucket. Without the box scraper on the back, the tractor was very tippy.

21687430_10211090073549875_7897787874296788338_n.jpg

My Buddy's 18x72 tray top, right around 4k#

17966784_10209738573683223_1298498454632200691_o.jpg

To get my over 9' long, 4,200 lb Rahn-Larmon into my shop, we unloaded from trailer with the 40B onto heavy duty dollies I built, then winched it inside

IMG_20170506_194837882.jpg

Getting it off the dollies was done with a 3 ton floor jack. I put it on 4" concrete blocks to better accommodate my uses

IMG_3238.JPG

To put things in perspective, the tailstock on the Rahn Larmon weighs more than a HF 8x12 lathe.

These big machines may be a pain to move, but they can often be had relatively cheap due to lack of market, and once in place, having the capability is something you'll never regret. Cutting 17-4 SS on a mini lathe, you're gonna be fighting chatter and deflection constantly, limited to DOC (depth of cut) around .015", maybe, on pieces of ~1.25" dia. A machine the size of the Grizzly G4003 is definitley more rigid, but still only 1-1.5 HP and with carriages barely 100#, so slow feeds and still only about .040"-.050" DOC on that 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" piece. Serious machines, these 16"+ swing, 3+ HP ones, can take big bites, and at feed rates where you actually get work done. Except for finish passes, my material removal rate with ~1.5" 17-4 stock on the Rahn-Larmon is .100" DOC at 8 inches per minute.

If you have the space, there's no good reason not to go bigger.
 
Last edited:
Mach1V, I love all the pics of your lathes, that's real pretty heavy iron. I tried for a long time to find some good old USA lathe but I finally ran out of patience, everything I went to look at was just beat to a pulp or just too big for my little space. I ended up ordering this little Chinese 12x36 about 12 years ago seen still sitting on it's pallet. Most of my work on it is not gunsmithing, it's been bushings, bearing adapters, custom plumbing fittings and the like. I love being able to thread anything I want as well. You're right on the money with DOC at .040 to .050, that's about where it runs out of gas. I would consider lathes like mine an absolute minimum for a hobby machinist such as myself. Were I to do it again I would start out with at least a 14 inch swing.

PC190209.jpg
 
Last edited:
Eh, machines under 1,500 pounds aren't too bad, can be picked up & loaded on/off trailers with engine hoists, moved into place with said hoists or even dragged/pushed across smooth floors.

It gets much more interesting when the machines weight two tons or more, though!

This is my Pedersen VPF-21 40 taper uni mill, about 5,500#. We had to chain around the structure, arms wouldn't lift it with the extra few inches leverage being attached to the bucket. Without the box scraper on the back, the tractor was very tippy.

View attachment 837464

My Buddy's 18x72 tray top, right around 4k#

View attachment 837463

To get my over 9' long, 4,200 lb Rahn-Larmon into my shop, we unloaded from trailer with the 40B onto heavy duty dollies I built, then winched it inside

View attachment 837465

Getting it off the dollies was done with a 3 ton floor jack. I put it on 4" concrete blocks to better accommodate my uses

View attachment 837466

To put things in perspective, the tailstock on the Rahn Larmon weighs more than a HF 8x12 lathe.

These big machines may be a pain to move, but they can often be had relatively cheap due to lack of market, and once in place, having the capability is something you'll never regret. Cutting 17-4 SS on a mini lathe, you're gonna be fighting chatter and deflection constantly, limited to DOC (depth of cut) around .015", maybe, on pieces of ~1.25" dia. A machine the size of the Grizzly G4003 is definitley more rigid, but still only 1-1.5 HP and with carriages barely 100#, so slow feeds and still only about .040"-.050" DOC on that 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" piece. Serious machines, these 16"+ swing, 3+ HP ones, can take big bites, and at feed rates where you actually get work done. Except for finish passes, my material removal rate with ~1.5" 17-4 stock on the Rahn-Larmon is .100" DOC at 8 inches per minute.

If you have the space, there's no good reason not to go bigger.

MachIV, love your heavy iron, I posted above but didn't qoute you. I always enjoy pictures of machines so please please indulge us. Just today I saw a Monarch 10ee locally, made my mouth water. I copied a pic from craigslist just for grins if you need something for large calibers how about a 16" spindle.

01414_gK4efJ04bS9_1200x900.jpg
 
. I copied a pic from craigslist just for grins if you need something for large calibers how about a 16" spindle.

There was a massive Boyle 32x128 15 HP machine for sale here awhile ago, would love to have had it, but I just don't have the floor space right now for a 20' long, 6' deep, 7 ton lathe.

The Rahn Larmon does have a fairly small through bore for a 17" swing machine, which is typical of vintage lathes. It's 1.8" at the rear end, but squeezes down to 1.72" a few inches in, which pains me doing the amount of work I do with 1.75" stock. Eventually I'll bore it out to 1.8" all the way through. It's also a really long spindle, so to minimize chatter & deflection, I had to get creative with supporting the back end of pieces that don't quite make it out the rear:

IMG_3244.JPG

IMG_3246.JPG

IMG_3247.JPG

You wouldn't think a machine this size with a 13", 126 pound chuck would have issues with that, but when you get better than a foot of stock hanging behind the chuck, interesting things happen on the font side
 
Im contemplating the purchase of a 16x54 American Pacemaker weighing in around 5000 lbs Transport will be easy with a rollback as it is already on a wheeled skid.

Unfortunately it is priced right at what it is probably worth unlike many machines that size. I tend to think machinery can be sold at higher prices in more urban areas since there are more options for moving them around.

The Pacemakers, along with Sidneys, and Monarchs were the Cadillacs of machines in post war America. Unsure of their utility as a gunsmith lathe.
 
I'd like (but will never get) the Hardinge toolroom lathe I used at one of the places where I worked. What a sweet piece of iron that was.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top