Conclusions and contradictions regarding shotgun fit

George P said:

Here are the rules for this game if you are not familiar with it - I prefer this and Super Sporting over regular sporting for the challenges:

https://www.fitasc.com/upload/files/Rglts_PCH_01012013_ENG.pdf

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Thanks. Looks like fun.

Thunderchicken said:

I know nothing about shooting shotguns but find the discussion interesting. I was wondering if when these various authorities say the head should be "erect," they might mean fore-and-aft and not side-to-side too. Note that I am not claiming that's what they mean--I'm just asking.

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I think they mean in all directions. Think about the alignment of the eyes when the head is bent to the side. And supposing you were wearing progressive lenses which don’t work on the side edges. Thanks for your post.

George P said:

But it still comes down to how it feels to you when you mount amnd shoot.

On Shotgunworld.com there is the author of "The Stockfitter's Bible - his name is Rollin Oswald. You might want to get his book from Amazon.

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I just finished his book. He specifically supports the goal of the erect head. It is his primary principle. But he doesn’t generally support the canted gun and doesn’t fully buy into the adjustable butt plate. He accepts what is possible without those things. Well without those two things still getting the erect head means a $3,500 custom stock. For me, the $350 adjustable butt plate and canted gun are a much more sensible solution.

George P said:

Similar to when you are driving, walking, etc. Your head should be in a normal erect position. However, as previously mentioned, some of the best shooters in the world use different methods that they find works best for them.

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Morgan Craft competes in the women's skeet final at the ISSF World Championship Shotgun on Sept. 13, 2015 in Lonato, Italy.


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Vincent Hancock from the Army AMU and US Olympic team

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Kim Rhode 6 times Olympic medalist

None of these champions use a totally erect head method and they are very successful.

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No doubt. But in all likelihood they adapted to what they had, were able to be comfortable that way and then defined it as a good fit. Now it is their norm with years of practice, and they imagine it is the key to their comfort and success. Changing wouldn’t make any sense. But that shouldn’t be the basis for a noob determining fit. The mistakes of the past shouldn’t be passed down. Do you see how that just perpetuates error? If I have no history with long guns whatsoever, shouldn’t I learn to love the best position rather than the one the gun offers me as readily available?

With regard to canting the gun Oswald says more than once I think that a canted gun will cause trouble if it shoots high. That seems to be his main dissatisfaction with the technique. And I get it. If the gun shoots high like for trap, then when canted the gun will shoot diagonally both high and left or right depending on the direction it is twisted. Well I have a fix to that. Set the gun up so it doesn’t shoot high. Easy for me to say for sporting clays. Maybe a little harder for trap. I don’t know. Never tried trap. But couldn’t you learn to shoot trap with a gun that shoots true and make the rising target adjustment yourself rather than through the peculiarity of the gun’s natural POA?

By the way, if you look at the photo of Morgan Craft, you will see her head is really pretty straight. It is her body that is bent at the waist as is generally recommended. That makes her head look tilted down.

George P said:

And yet, here's Anthony Matarese, one of the best - not only is the head down, he mashes his cheek into it. Again, it comes down to what works best for each person

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With all due respect, I disagree that this works best for him necessarily. He bought a gun. The salesman told him most guns sold in America fit most Americans. You see that all the time in fitting articles. That position is what it took to FIT HIMSELF to a gun that was clearly not right for him, a fact that no one would accept. That was a long time ago. Now that is his standard and he and you think it must be right. But it isn’t right. The gun never did and never will fit him. He just makes it work.

I know I sound stupid rigid. I’m just trying to make a point. Most folks, even at the highest levels, have adapted to the gun and assumed the gun must have been right for them. By the basic principles that is not true. It works okay, but it doesn’t follow the rule. I’m starting from scratch, so why not follow the rule?

kudu said:

And yet in all the photos of the shooters their head is mostly erect and eyes are parallel, with the gun square, but they are leaning into the gun. If their head were down they would be looking at the ground but all are looking through the center of their glasses straight down the barrel. Three out of the four pics also have adjustable combs on their guns and more than likely some adjustable butt. All have what I consider good stance for shooting moving birds, and is basically how my stance is, except on trap where I stand more erect because the gun has very little left to right movement and I point the gun more rifle like. A trap gun's barrel will likely move less than 6" left or right where as skeet or sporting it may move up to 3-4 feet.

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I don’t quite see the same thing, but fair enough. As it should be.