Shaking hands

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If the guys right hand is in his pocket, offering your left hand wont answer any questions, will it? Just askin, dont know squat about this topic.

Having hold of someone's left hand still offers you the potential to pull and exert control over their balance and center of gravity, which may gain you a couple critical moments ... especially if you're the one doing the pulling and your right hand is likewise able to quickly access your pocketed or belt worn weapon, or be otherwise employed in a suitable physical (non-gun) response to a sudden threatening situation. This was something often practiced when I was a young martial artist, meaning practicing using the non-dominant hand as an initial contact point to deflect or gain momentary/initial control of an opponent's balance.

Now, if someone has their hand in their right side pocket, and that concerns you, then you can attempt to "get an answer" by offering your right hand, to see how they respond. That comes with its own inherent disadvantage, though, as now you're giving up your primary hand (if you're right-handed), although you still have the potential to gain control of their balance and center of gravity, as well as use your off-hand in any contact response that may become suddenly necessary. Unfortunately for some folks, practicing using their off-hand for serious unarmed application is sometimes about as common as shooters practicing serious application of their shooting skills with their off-hand. How serious someone may be in this regard is something only they can answer.

If someone works to have options available to them, no matter which hand they decide to offer for a handshake, then they may have options available to them for any situation that may come along. Preparation is up to the individual, and anticipating the situational context for which someone may wish to prepare themselves is also up to the individual. ;)

Sometimes a handshake is just a handshake ... and sometimes a smile is just another way to bare your teeth.
 
Having hold of someone's left hand still offers you the potential to pull and exert control over their balance and center of gravity, which may gain you a couple critical moments ... especially if you're the one doing the pulling and your right hand is likewise able to quickly access your pocketed or belt worn weapon, or be otherwise employed in a suitable physical (non-gun) response to a sudden threatening situation. This was something often practiced when I was a young martial artist, meaning practicing using the non-dominant hand as an initial contact point to deflect or gain momentary/initial control of an opponent's balance.

Now, if someone has their hand in their right side pocket, and that concerns you, then you can attempt to "get an answer" by offering your right hand, to see how they respond. That comes with its own inherent disadvantage, though, as now you're giving up your primary hand (if you're right-handed), although you still have the potential to gain control of their balance and center of gravity, as well as use your off-hand in any contact response that may become suddenly necessary. Unfortunately for some folks, practicing using their off-hand for serious unarmed application is sometimes about as common as shooters practicing serious application of their shooting skills with their off-hand. How serious someone may be in this regard is something only they can answer.

If someone works to have options available to them, no matter which hand they decide to offer for a handshake, then they may have options available to them for any situation that may come along. Preparation is up to the individual, and anticipating the situational context for which someone may wish to prepare themselves is also up to the individual. ;)

Sometimes a handshake is just a handshake ... and sometimes a smile is just another way to bare your teeth.
Thanks!
 
I was simply supporting your argument...You might notice, I quoted your "I don't buy it."

I apologize I read it differently. I took it as you telling me essentially what I said, "the statistics say this many people should be armed in your church but you really can't go by statistics." I apologize for being so thin skinned.
 
I started doing "security" at my church this past Sunday. I think many frown on armed security or any type of security. There are volunteer positions for greeters but no one volunteers.
I sat outside the sanctuary inside the church so when someone approaches I can assess them through the partially frosted windows before they enter. There are a few guys that make decent watchdogs but they choose to sit in the last pew next to their spouse incapacitating themselves from any real self defense action.
I live in a town that everyone would be surprised that "it" happened here, which is precisely why I decided to take it upon myself.
I will deal with the legalities if "it" happens but I'm not asking permission, yet. I have a Level III Armed Security Permit so I may broach the subject with my Pastor in the near future.
Last Sunday I stuffed the M9A3 in my right pocket and an M&P340 in my left, long tailed shirt worn outside the pants concealed the outline. I like this setup and even with my streamlight attached to the pic rail it still slips in and out the pocket easily.
 
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I started doing "security" at my church this past Sunday. I think many frown on armed security or any type of security.

Appointing yourself security for your church is a really bad idea. That's not your call to make. That decision belongs to your pastor and to the church's Board of Elders.

There was a parishioner at New Life Church who appointed himself to that position and actually got involved in the shooting. He was asked to leave the church because of it.

It would be much more productive to sit down with your pastor or associate pastor and ask if the church even has an emergency response plan and do they have a security team.

If they already have designated individuals whose duty it is to respond to such an event and you just insert yourself into it all you're going to do is get in the way and quite possibly get yourself shot.
 
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That maybe true in a megachurch, mine has about 175 members of which perhaps only half show up on Sunday. I did tell my Pastor I'll be praying in the hallway whilst keeping an eye on the door I just didn't mention that I was armed not wanting to get into the possibility of a debate. I'm quite certain both he and the elders assume correctly that I'm armed, as they know my past history.
I think you are certainly correct in your post if it was a big church but this is a tiny church, mainly elderly, more than half women in traditional roles and very few parishioners between 18-45, so I respect your observations and think you're correct but not in this particular case.
 
That maybe true in a megachurch, mine has about 175 members of which perhaps only half show up on Sunday. I did tell my Pastor I'll be praying in the hallway whilst keeping an eye on the door I just didn't mention that I was armed not wanting to get into the possibility of a debate. I'm quite certain both he and the elders assume correctly that I'm armed, as they know my past history.
I think you are certainly correct in your post if it was a big church but this is a tiny church, mainly elderly, more than half women in traditional roles and very few parishioners between 18-45, so I respect your observations and think you're correct but not in this particular case.

I want to be careful to say this the right way.

I still don't think it's your decision to make. I think you should sit down with your Pastor and explain your concerns clearly and explain what you're willing to stand guard but you have to give him the chance to say "No" if he feels led to do so and you need to submit to his authority if he does.


not wanting to get into the possibility of a debate.

There is no possibility of a debate God put HIM in the position of leadership over that church.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say?
 
Appointing yourself security for your church is a really bad idea. That's not your call to make. That decision belongs to your pastor and to the church's Board of Elders.

There was a parishioner at New Life Church who appointed himself to that position and actually got involved in the shooting. He was asked to leave the church because of it.

It would be much more productive to sit down with your pastor or associate pastor and ask if the church even has an emergency response plan and do they have a security team.

If they already have designated individuals whose duty it is to respond to such an event and you just insert yourself into it all you're going to do is get in the way and quite possibly get yourself shot.

Well, look at it this way. Since my church does not provide a security detail (it is even smaller than george29's, though growing) I take it upon myself to protect myself, as I do outside of church. That protection extends, by proxy, to the congregation as a whole (well, those attending) for two reasons that it would not to say a crowd at an event; These people are family, and those that aren't are closer than some of my family. The other is that I know that only two other people in the congregation have CCW's; One has Alzheimer's, his wife has locked up his guns, the other is a female who cannot carry on her person because of her manner of dress, and is not the type to carry a purse around. She does often keep a pistol in her car, but that isn't going to help anyone in an attack.

I would leave if asked after an incident if asked, and probably would be, by the Synod. (Congregationalist) I know Wisconsin Synod Lutheran churches allow and encourage carry.
 
I still don't think it's your decision to make. I think you should sit down with your Pastor and explain your concerns clearly and explain what you're willing to stand guard but you have to give him the chance to say "No" if he feels led to do so and you need to submit to his authority if he does.

I have to agree with this. Even in this day and age many Pastors would not want someone armed in the sanctuary. I was raised in the United Church of Christ. (I left that denomination in the 1980s when they endorsed liberation theology). My younger brother is an ordained UCC Minister he has his own church. He and I had a very heated discussion when after our father's funeral I removed my suit coat and he saw my off duty weapon.

I would talk to the Pastor, especially if you intend to act as "unofficial security".
 
I'll take the advice given and have a chat with the Pastor after he gets back from a conference.
I personally will let it be known that long ago made my own choice of not becoming a victim and will have to forgo going to service if they have a problem but I will have the talk. He's a smart practical man but it will have to be put before the elders. There is a member who Carries an 4" unconcealed hunting blade on his belt and they've never told him no so....we'll see where this goes. Pastor returns next week so I'll keep y'all posted later.
 
Well, look at it this way. Since my church does not provide a security detail (it is even smaller than george29's, though growing) I take it upon myself to protect myself, as I do outside of church. That protection extends, by proxy, to the congregation as a whole (well, those attending) for two reasons that it would not to say a crowd at an event; These people are family, and those that aren't are closer than some of my family. The other is that I know that only two other people in the congregation have CCW's; One has Alzheimer's, his wife has locked up his guns, the other is a female who cannot carry on her person because of her manner of dress, and is not the type to carry a purse around. She does often keep a pistol in her car, but that isn't going to help anyone in an attack.

I would leave if asked after an incident if asked, and probably would be, by the Synod. (Congregationalist) I know Wisconsin Synod Lutheran churches allow and encourage carry.

We're not talking about carrying a handgun for self defense, we're specifically addressing posting yourself as a guard over the congregation.
 
I just don't shake hands with people I don't know in public, unless I'm being introduced by someone else we both know. Church creeps me out on so many levels, but the handsy, huggy nature of everyone there and their desire to sink their righteous talons into my black soul and pull me to the light is a really big no-go for my personal comfort zone. It seems like the worst place to keep your carry gun totally secret. Just like a family reunion...ugh.

Just make eye contact and use your words or smile. I also don't offer my hand first, but then I have to decide to take their hand or not if it's offered.
 
It has always been dangerous to be a Christian.
I am going to assume everyone present is there to worship, but I am always carrying at church.


This Jew fully grasps your point.

I was heavily armed in Temple when my mom was alive and I attended.

I did not ask anyone for pemission,as it is and will ALWAYS BE = my ass to risk.

I could choose to not attend,but that would leave my mom alone and unprotected.

My choice is to protect & serve,period.

Any who do not agree with me,that is your right.

As I take it from the good Lord for my RIGHT to protection at all times.
 
It has always been dangerous to be a Christian.
I am going to assume everyone present is there to worship, but I am always carrying at church.

To paraphrase Tamara Keel, I don't go out of my way to specifically carry a gun in church. I simply make it my habit never leave my home unarmed and church just happens to be one of the places I go.
 
This Jew fully grasps your point.

I was heavily armed in Temple when my mom was alive and I attended.

I did not ask anyone for pemission,as it is and will ALWAYS BE = my ass to risk.

I could choose to not attend,but that would leave my mom alone and unprotected.

My choice is to protect & serve,period.

Any who do not agree with me,that is your right.

As I take it from the good Lord for my RIGHT to protection at all times.
An observant Jew not only has the RIGHT, but the OBLIGATION: While we are supposed to turn away insults with a soft voice, the Talmud says, "If someone is coming to kill you, rise up and kill him first." Maimonides elucidates that this obligation applies to both men and women, that it applies to defending others as well as oneself, and that rape is equivalent to murder for determining the obligation of self-defense.
 
An observant Jew not only has the RIGHT, but the OBLIGATION: While we are supposed to turn away insults with a soft voice, the Talmud says, "If someone is coming to kill you, rise up and kill him first." Maimonides elucidates that this obligation applies to both men and women, that it applies to defending others as well as oneself, and that rape is equivalent to murder for determining the obligation of self-defense.

Aaaaaaaaand this thread is on its way to a lock
 
Obviously we we all have our own opinions about carrying in church and yes, there is a difference between personal carry and being asked to purposefully keep watch/security for the whole congregation.

That said; I’m still watching this thread looking for ideas/strategies on how to tactfully get a POI to show their hands as they enter without compromising my readiness nor making them feel unwelcome. Bearing in mind that though this is a job I have been asked to fill, we are still in a place of worship where we hope all will feel welcome.

Please no more discussion of whether or not to carry, who should carry, why xx has no faith, etc.
this thread is in “strategies and tactics” category for a reason.
 
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That said; I’m still watching this thread looking for ideas/strategies on how to tactfully get a POI to show their hands as they enter without compromising my readiness nor making them feel unwelcome. Bearing in mind that though this is a job I have been asked to fill, we are still in a place of worship where we hope all will feel welcome.

There's really nothing you can do. Assuming the person has a gun in their pocket you're going to be behind the curve and reacting no matter when it comes out.

The best solution I can give you is to give your self some reaction gap by standing back from the doors.
 
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