The Law & Use of Deadly Force

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Just watched a very detailed & informative video by a Criminal Attorney in Arizona called Marc J. Victor on You tube. The video gives very thorough advice on what to do if ever involved in a shooting situation & I strongly recommend that anyone considering carrying a firearm with intent to use it for self defense watch it. Aside from the legal advice Mr. Victor describes the typical & expected aftermath of any situation involving a firearm regardless of circumstances. To me it sounded like the beginning of a long & horrific nightmare with the justice system.
I don't plan on getting rid of my gun for home defense purposes but I was tossing around the idea of applying for a CC Permit and after watching this video I decided I'm probably better off not carrying than carrying.
How many of you have thought about this & reached the same conclusion?
 
I carry for my personal protection; I have no family so no need there. I do not carry for the protection of others. I did that for too many years. Therefore, I will only remove my weapon from my holster to safe MY life and if that ever happens....who really cares about the hassle afterward since if I ever do use my weapon, it will be for a legal reason; be it against a human or an animal (I hike a lot in ID, MT, WY, UT). And yes, I understand civil court could possibly follow; but that is the price we pay for our own security.

As to carry concealed or not, that is a decision ONLY YOU can make and I would respect either as I hope others would. Not everyone should carry a weapon.
 
Just watched a very detailed & informative video by a Criminal Attorney in Arizona called Marc J. Victor on You tube. The video gives very thorough advice on what to do if ever involved in a shooting situation & I strongly recommend that anyone considering carrying a firearm with intent to use it for self defense watch it. Aside from the legal advice Mr. Victor describes the typical & expected aftermath of any situation involving a firearm regardless of circumstances. To me it sounded like the beginning of a long & horrific nightmare with the justice system.
I don't plan on getting rid of my gun for home defense purposes but I was tossing around the idea of applying for a CC Permit and after watching this video I decided I'm probably better off not carrying than carrying.
How many of you have thought about this & reached the same conclusion?

No. I did not reach the same conclusion. Instead, I spent my time learning the laws in my state and places where I travel regarding self defense. You also learn to be observant, manipulate your firearm which is important whether you carry outside of the home or not, and avoid conflict/bad situations. If anything, carrying often forces you to be careful, prudent, cautious, and slow to anger. You see, any act to defend your self, carrying a firearm or not, will have the same law applied and can result in a mess if you do not know the law. Thus, a barfight to defend yourself could result in someone cracking their head open on a concrete floor with a resulting manslaughter charge. I agree that people should not carry who are careless, prone to conflict with others, non-observant, not willing to know the laws, and not trained at all in manipulating and firing a pistol. The best gunfight is one that you never have because you avoided the bad situation or avoided escalating a conflict just the same as the best car crash is the one that you avoided via prudence, caution, and being observant. While people might fret about carrying, statistically, one is far more likely to be involved in a car crash which has similar draining legal consequences than a self defense shooting. Training, insurance, and knowing the law, can help there too.


For some other perspectives, I would advise going to the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network website that has free pdf journal covering a lot of different cases, situations etc. with multiple lawyers' and cops' take on self defense with real life stories. https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/en/our-journal

Rangemaster, who is a prominent former LEO and current firearms trainer, also has valuable information in his newsletter every month, https://rangemaster.com/publications/rangemaster-newsletter/

The Tactical Professor, Claude Werner, has another good website https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress.com/

Last, but not least, Massad Ayoob has published some of the best books around on general knowledge and does classes dealing with the legal issues throughout the country through his MAG-20 Class and one of his students has published a good book and updated it which is named The Law of Self Defense (believe it is now 2nd ed.).

The truth is that most defense attorneys are not prepared to try self defense cases because of the affirmative nature of the justification defense (I did it but I was justified in doing so). One cannot simply argue the typical SODDI (Some Other Dude Did It or TODDI (The Other Dude Did It.) defense lawyer's case and escape legal jeopardy in self defense. You need a specialist in the field which there are usually a couple in every state at least. I know that some groups actually have lists of attorneys that agree to handle such cases.

Self defense cases are fact intensive and legal justification rests on whether a reasonable person (defined by statute and caselaw in the state) would essentially act in a similar way given the same circumstances in the case. That means that you admit doing it and that you did it intentionally (accidental shooting means lesser punishment but still you admit to negligent conduct that was not justified) which in most states fulfills murder, not manslaughter, charges. It also means that you have to affirmatively act to preserve evidence corroborating your story etc. as you do not want your word to be the only thing supporting your claims. Forensics, prior training, documentation of attempts to avoid and deescalate the conflict, acting with the mantle of righteousness in calling the police, knowing and following the law, all make a difference etc.
 
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The possibility of having to deal with the legal system after a justified SD shooting is not enough to sway me towards not carrying a gun every day.

If it has for you I dont think anyone here is going to hold that against you. Personally I would never try and "talk someone into" carrying everyday. Its certainly not for everyone.

However, as has been mentioned, for many folks that EDC it does tend to make you think more about your actions out in public, from where you go to what you do and how you act. For me the aforementioned things have been more positive since I started carrying.

Just food for thought....
 
Thank you, I appreciate your responses. I feel that CC should be allowed & that it is Constitutionally rightful. However I see the reality of how gun ownership by law abiding citizens are viewed by politicians & mains stream media. After learning what can & can't be done with a gun in even the most justified of situations I see CC as just another way for the government to make money from people who are being falsely deceived into believing that they can legally defend themselves with deadly force. In fact it appears that in reality anyone that uses a gun in any situation is going to be prosecuted as a dangerous person to society. We (and by we I mean all law abiding citizens) live in very dangerous times because we are the enemies of the very powerful anti-gun groups & while they may not be Constitutionally or even morally correct but they are considered by mainstream media & the general public as being politically correct.
 
Thank you, I appreciate your responses. I feel that CC should be allowed & that it is Constitutionally rightful. However I see the reality of how gun ownership by law abiding citizens are viewed by politicians & mains stream media. After learning what can & can't be done with a gun in even the most justified of situations I see CC as just another way for the government to make money from people who are being falsely deceived into believing that they can legally defend themselves with deadly force. In fact it appears that in reality anyone that uses a gun in any situation is going to be prosecuted as a dangerous person to society. We (and by we I mean all law abiding citizens) live in very dangerous times because we are the enemies of the very powerful anti-gun groups & while they may not be Constitutionally or even morally correct but they are considered by mainstream media & the general public as being politically correct.




You're not wrong, but the moment you let things like politics or media dictate how you live your life you've already given up on the basic principles of what this country was founded on.

Again, I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other, but I will defend my stance.
 
The possibility of having to deal with the legal system after a justified SD shooting is not enough to sway me towards not carrying a gun every day.
Certainly if you let somebody slaughter you, the law won't be able to lay a finger on you. Of course not being a believer in an afterlife, I find cold comfort in that.

My best friend here is a damned good criminal defense attorney. The one thing however that he can't get me out of is six feet of dirt.
 
There is no substitute for becoming informed of self defense laws. IMO: Criminal defense attorneys make money by defending folks accused of criminal acts, that's their job. They sometimes talk worst case scenarios.

Those who find themselves indicted for homicide related to self defense have already failed some tests:

1. The police did not believe your story.

2. The prosecutor did not believe your story.

3. The grand jury, if applicable, did not believe your story.

4. The judge binding you over for trial did not believe your story.

Will the jury believe your story?

About ten years ago our Comanche county, OK prosecutor declined to prosecute three self defense shootings in an 18 month period
 
. . . . Aside from the legal advice Mr. Victor describes the typical & expected aftermath of any situation involving a firearm regardless of circumstances. To me it sounded like the beginning of a long & horrific nightmare with the justice system. . . . .

. . . . I decided I'm probably better off not carrying than carrying. How many of you have thought about this & reached the same conclusion?
The legal aftermath of a shooting has the potential to be a nightmare. That's true. And I say that knowing that I'm better equipped than most to deal with it.

But no, I have not come to the same conclusion. I carry everywhere legal.
 
What made me study gun laws in more detail is an incident that took place in my neighborhood recently. An older man (no prior record) is an extremely overweight individual that needs a wheelchair to get around. He doesn't get along w/his step son who is a much younger & better fit man. The step son doesn't live with him but during a visit the two argued & the step son's behavior got scary so the guy in the wheelchair drew a gun and told him to leave his house. His wife (the step son's mother) called police. When the police came they arrested the older man in the wheelchair, confiscated his gun & now he's in serious trouble with the justice system.

That reaction by the police surprised me as well as several of my other neighbors that know the story. I'm not trying to argue or talk anyone out of CC, I'm just trying to bring some reality into the picture. Unless I'm totally mistaken, the conditions & circumstances under which use of a gun is considered "justifiable" by law are nearly impossible.
 
. . . . Unless I'm totally mistaken, the conditions & circumstances under which use of a gun is considered "justifiable" by law are nearly impossible.
I wouldn't call them 'impossible' by any means, but it certainly helps to know the law in your jurisdiction. I'm not licensed in FL, and you must remember that every state will have its own nuances in the law of SD. With that said, and generally speaking:

  1. The attacker(s) must threaten to, or attempt to kill or do grave bodily injury to the SD Shooter.
  2. The attacker(s) must have, at a minimum, the perceived ability to gravely injure or kill the SD Shooter.
  3. The SD Shooter's death of serious bodily injury must be imminent.
  4. The SD Shooter must NOT have been the initial instigator of conflict.
  5. The SD Shooter must believe that his or her life or limb was actually in peril.
  6. The SD Shooter's belief that his or her belief (#4) must have been reasonable.
 
As was pointed out, there is no situation in which is is lawful to shoot, or threaten to shoot, another human being. The matter to be determined will have to be, in a nutshell, is was the defensive-gun-use (DGU) legally-justifiied, or would following the law have been reasonable given the risk to the defender had he done so.

Far more lawfully-armed citizens who have used their firearms in legally-justified actions have prevailed than have come out worse than they believed they might have become had they "followed the law" at the time of the incident.


..and after watching this video I decided I'm probably better off not carrying than carrying.

That may be the case for you, as hesitation can get you, or someone else, dead. But, it's not the conclusion to which I came.

For me, being armed will not get me into more trouble than will being unarmed, but it might get me out of trouble that being unarmed may not. However, until it's needed, it plays no factor in how I conduct myself.
 
Thank you, I appreciate your responses. I feel that CC should be allowed & that it is Constitutionally rightful. However I see the reality of how gun ownership by law abiding citizens are viewed by politicians & mains stream media. After learning what can & can't be done with a gun in even the most justified of situations I see CC as just another way for the government to make money from people who are being falsely deceived into believing that they can legally defend themselves with deadly force. In fact it appears that in reality anyone that uses a gun in any situation is going to be prosecuted as a dangerous person to society. We (and by we I mean all law abiding citizens) live in very dangerous times because we are the enemies of the very powerful anti-gun groups & while they may not be Constitutionally or even morally correct but they are considered by mainstream media & the general public as being politically correct.

The media ain't as powerful as people think it is and frankly their reputation is in the toilet right along with Congress critters and conmen. Same with anti-gun groups which have funds but surprisingly few foot soldiers that are not bought and paid for by Bloomberg cash, and if you look, despite the recent media onslaught, polls consistently have show majority support for firearm ownership. Despite the media arguments, places like New Jersey, New York, Illinois, and California are the exception to the rule while advances in state laws promoting firearm ownership such as constitutional carry are downplayed by that same media. Notably most of the media hysteria recently has been not over defensive handguns, but AR type rifles (which ironically represent very few firearms deaths per year). The media had decades long campaigns to demonize handguns but they have pretty much lost that battle so much so that Handgun Control Inc. had to change its name (BTW, its former spokesperson in that era was CNN's Jake Tapper who curiously fails to note his start when reporting.)

Notice that as much as the media tried to put Zimmerman in prison through misleading stories, the jury saw through the smoke and did not convict. Tom Givens, the Rangemaster trainer I mentioned, had over 60 of his students go through having to defend themselves with a firearm successfully with none of his students going to jail. He taught them in one of the most violent cities in the U.S., Memphis, TN, and the only two that lost in a gunfight were not carrying a firearm at the time (cannot remember whether they were seriously injured or dead as a result).

However, the media purposefully downplays these incidents of people using firearms to legally defend themselves and instead plays up the few incidents where a person acts stupidly with a firearm (like the recent St. Louis case where the victim and idiot shooter got into a bar fight over how much German Shepherd dogs can weigh.) They also conflate issues of self defense with the claims by drug dealers and the like for self defense during drug deals gone bad which are generally regarded skeptically by prosecutors and lawmen.

For a change, take a look at any American Rifleman which has a long running column of average people using firearms and not being charged with anything. In that column, you will see every month about 10-15 stories of people using firearms to stop criminal assaults, burglaries, rape, etc. None of these will you see in the national media because essentially the national media apparently wants people to be helpless and subject to criminals because gun ownership is bad to them. However, even in blue states such as Chicago, you see periodically the one to two day story of some good guy with a gun stopping criminal behavior and not being charged with anything.

Ultimately you have to make the decision to carry or not but relying on mass media to do so when they systematically misinform you on a daily basis is not wise. They do not have your best wishes at heart. The internet too is not necessarily the best place to start unless you already have a good handle on facts. Search algorithms etc. by all of the major search engine providers are essentially black boxes and folks like Google have been caught manipulating these on purpose to push ideas Google likes and bury ideas they don't.

Instead, talk to some of your local law enforcement, talk to a local attorney that deals with criminal defense or a local firearms trainer about your concerns. You might find that a surprising number of local attorneys carry firearms because often their clients are not exactly the most upright of citizens and sometimes they are dealing with some emotional clients and families that get rather upset at the legal process and blame the attorney. You will also find quite a few rank and file cops that support private citizens owning firearms and they will tell you how they deal with them.

Firearms trainers, often have past LEO experience and contacts, will also be pretty straight with you about their students (avoid the tacticool folks promising a military special forces experience). If available, NRA trainers in your area should have a decent handle on the issue in their basic courses on avoiding being a victim of crime and these classes are usually pretty inexpensive. Regardless of whether you chose to get a firearm, their basic Refuse to Be a Victim class can give you pointers on identifying and avoiding criminals and their actions. https://rtbav.nra.org/

Last but not least, regarding your anecdote, one of the problem that people often do wind up in a jam, regardless of whether a firearm is involved, is in domestic disputes. Emotions are involved and family members often quarrel in rather heated arguments. Sometimes a family member will call the cops because they are afraid it will get out of hand but once the police are there, they have to take notice of what is going on and file reports on what was said, done, etc.

Once again, avoidance is the best strategy--if you have a conflict with someone in your family, don't have them in your house or be around them. Folks often have a family member doing shady stuff, using drugs, and basically living a criminal lifestyle. Sometimes these folks come in via marriage or divorce. The worst thing to do is get into a confrontation with them with no way to escape--thus keep them at arms length and only meet in public places etc. where a dispute will get attention quick and objective witnesses are around. You cannot rely on even close family members for such things as their heart and feelings often overcome sound reasoning--thus avoidance and ground rules for interactions. I know couples with bad divorces basically go to police stations to exchange custody of kids. Others have to call the cops for trespassing, even on their own kids, but do not let the troubled yutes in the house at all. Meetings are at places like food courts at the mall, churches, or some other neutral ground. Occasionally, families have to deal with violent stalker type behavior which its own special circumstance and outside the scope. However, the problem was not the firearm in the confrontation mentioned by you but the fact that the confrontation resulted in an apparently illegal use of the firearm which means a lack of training and common sense in a confrontation. Without more information, it is difficult to tell just went on, but if the firearm was not used appropriately within the law, then you face charges and the result would have been the same with a baseball bat employed inappropriately.

The biggest error that people make with firearms is that they are not a magic talisman that can be presented and troubles will flee. One needs training, both for the firearm and legal, in order to judge when their use is appropriate and how then to use it. People unwilling spend on basic training, which is often much less than a new model of Iphone or some jumbo tv, should consider then not buying one.
 
Victor's advice is generally valid although it doesn't match perfectly what I've learned from other, highly reputable sources.

Remaining completely silent may result in the loss of exculpatory evidence. Suppose a carjacker steps out in front of your car and aims a gun at you. Fearing he will shoot, you floor your accelerator and run him down. Afterward, the robber claims you ran him down for no good reason. If the cops never find his gun, because you didn't tell them about it, it will be his word against yours and his injuries are the only hard evidence. The challenge is that you need the presence of mind to say enough but not too much. In this example, it would be appropriate to be the first to call 911 and to tell responding officers that you were the victim of an armed carjacker and point out his gun lying on the ground. After that, you should indeed shut up until you have had time to consult an attorney and, more importantly, have calmed down.

I disagree that you should limit a 911 call to, "There's been a shooting at this address," and hang up. If that's all the information police have, they will treat the person shot as the victim and everyone else as a suspect. Instead, take advantage of the call to plant the idea that you are the victim and the other guy is the criminal. I would suggest reporting the type of crime and the address. Request police and, if appropriate, ambulance. Identify yourself as the victim and give a brief physical description. Also give a description of the criminal. State whether he is down or has left the scene. Then, hang up.

Typically, criminal defense attorneys have vast experience defending guilty clients but little experience defending innocent ones. Strategies between the two are very different. If the client is guilty, the less evidence found, the better since it just builds a stronger case for the prosecution. The last thing a guilty defendant wants is for the truth to come out. It's exactly the reverse for a defendant who acted legally. Complete evidence exonerates him. Ideally, the scene would have been covered from multiple angles by high resolution surveillance cameras.

Words can matter. Threatening to shoot someone is a crime but not by itself an imminent threat. Reaching into a back pocket isn't even a threat. Combine the two and it becomes reasonable for the person threatened to conclude that he is in imminent danger of being shot. That justifies taking defensive action before it's too late. He's not obligated to put himself at extra risk by waiting until he actually sees the gun before drawing his own.

Victor seems to assume that prosecutors are invariably hostile to self defense and will prosecute all such cases regardless of their merits. That might be true where he practices but it's not true everywhere. I can cite several cases where I live in which the prosecutor declined to file charges after reviewing the evidence. In one case, he publicly commiserated with the defender about the fear he must have experienced during the armed robbery in which he shot the robber to death. Another case, in which one gangbanger tried to murder another and lost the gunfight, was ruled self defense. In a couple of other cases, no charges were filed even though, in my opinion, the defenders had unnecessarily put themselves at risk. The typical course for what we, here, would consider legitimate self defense incidents is for police to interview, but not arrest, the defender and for the prosecutor to review their report and announce that he won't prosecute. Nobody tries to take advantage of failure to dot an "i" or cross a "t" as long as the defender really is a crime victim who fought back.

A good way to gauge local attitudes toward self defense is to follow news stories about self defense incidents. If crime victims who fight back are treated as victims and their assailants are prosecuted as criminals despite their injuries, you live in a good place. If defenders are prosecuted with their assailants granted immunity for testifying against them, think about moving.

Even if there are no legal consequences to self defense, there are likely to be significant social consequences. You could lose your job because your employer doesn't want "that kind of person" working for him. You will lose at least some friends. Relatives may disown you. You may have to find a new doctor after your current one realizes that you were probably carrying inside his clinic. I've learned not to mention self defense outside gun circles because the reaction is consistently negative. While the risk of victimization is low for middle and upper class people, it clearly is greater than zero. Most people behave as if it is exactly zero and can't understand anyone who disagrees much less prepares for the exception. The guy who, after a particularly violent crime, whimpers, "I never thought it could happen here," will, if an armed private citizen prevents "it" from happening, insist that the latter overreacted or should have left intervention to the police.

An excellent source of information is attorney Andrew Branca. His book, The Law of Self Defense, is available from Amazon. Branca used to travel around the country teaching one day classes on self defense law tailored to the site of the class. He's now switched over to online classes still live so that students can ask questions. He has produced a set of DVDs of that class plus state specific DVDs. Personally, I like the DVDs because you can replay sections until you understand them. He also has a DVD about self defense insurance that explains what to look for in a program. Branca's website is www.lawofselfdefense.com.
 
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What made me study gun laws in more detail is an incident that took place in my neighborhood recently. An older man (no prior record) is an extremely overweight individual that needs a wheelchair to get around. He doesn't get along w/his step son who is a much younger & better fit man. The step son doesn't live with him but during a visit the two argued & the step son's behavior got scary so the guy in the wheelchair drew a gun and told him to leave his house. His wife (the step son's mother) called police. When the police came they arrested the older man in the wheelchair, confiscated his gun & now he's in serious trouble with the justice system.

That reaction by the police surprised me as well as several of my other neighbors that know the story. I'm not trying to argue or talk anyone out of CC, I'm just trying to bring some reality into the picture. Unless I'm totally mistaken, the conditions & circumstances under which use of a gun is considered "justifiable" by law are nearly impossible.

Basing your "decision" on that one situation which you really know nothing about (fact wise) is not a logical way to make a conclusion.
"the step son's behavior got scary so the guy in the wheelchair drew a gun and told him to leave his house". What does than mean??? Even in your own home pulling out a gun a threatening someone is not a wise thing to do.Did the stepson threaten the man, did he have a weapon?? Lots of people at Wal Mart scare me but I don't pull a gun on them.

I see you live in Florida which is a "Stand Your Ground" State. There have been MANY justifiable self defense shootings. Yes, there are also questionable ones. One has to be damn sure that you fear for you safety/life.
Every situation is different and there are so many variables.
 
One has to be damn sure that you fear for you safety/life.
Every situation is different and there are so many variables.[/QUOTE]

I think you made my point. Making "damn sure" that "all variables" are right is not something you have lots of time to think about when confronted with an unexpected & bad situation. Perhaps extensive training will help but I seriously doubt that any instructor regardless of expertise on the subject can prepare you for any & all possible combination of variables.

As far as my poor neighbor is concerned he's severely handicapped & he felt threatened by a very angry, much younger and mobile man in his home. At that moment he felt he needed a gun to keep from getting hurt (isn't that why we keep guns in our homes?) . I can understand why he did what he did. However the law disagrees. It ignored the entire situation & only looked at the "man with the gun". The law punished him (physically, emotionally & financially) just because he drew (never fired) the gun. The other guy, the one that started the argument & doesn't even live there, was not charged, drove home & slept in his own bed that night. Some people might feel very comfortable with that result but I certainly don't.

Like I said from the start of this thread, I respect & support the 2nd Amendment & all people that CC. I personally would very much like to feel comfortable carrying. But the point of my starting this thread was that although I'm very far from being an anti gun guy I also realize that unless you're a police officer the law is designed to favor the victim in a shooting unless "all variables" are neatly arranged in the shooter's favor. I would hate to win a gunfight only to then find myself facing a 20-year prison sentence & leaving my family' financially ruined with attorney fees & civil law suits. It's something to seriously think about.
 
As I mentioned, you or I was not there in the old mans house so with no facts then there is no way to make a determination. From what you wrote, the old man had no reason to threaten with a deadly weapon If the younger guy had a knife, bat, gun or something then perhaps.

It's your choice you can be a "victim" or perhaps save your life or that of your loved ones.

The best defense is simply not being in a situation that requires deadly force. I hope I never have to take my gun out in public. In my home, then I have no problem if someone breaks in and threatens me.

1b
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ute&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
 
How many of you have thought about this & reached the same conclusion?

I for one, would rather face a legal battle, alive and unharmed. The alternative of that being injured or killed, or witnessing my loved one injured or killed, living with the trauma of that aftermath.

Remember, if your perspective is focused, you are not saving strangers, you are protecting yourself against a deadly threat, that comes to you that cannot be avoided. If some meth head decides he wants to chop on your wife, kids, or you with a machete....you are going to wish you had a real means of stopping him.
 
An older man (no prior record) is an extremely overweight individual that needs a wheelchair to get around. He doesn't get along w/his step son who is a much younger & better fit man. The step son doesn't live with him but during a visit the two argued & the step son's behavior got scary so the guy in the wheelchair drew a gun and told him to leave his house.
As far as my poor neighbor is concerned he's severely handicapped & he felt threatened by a very angry, much younger and mobile man in his home. At that moment he felt he needed a gun to keep from getting hurt. I can understand why he did what he did. However the law disagrees. It ignored the entire situation & only looked at the "man with the gun".....The other guy, the one that started the argument & doesn't even live there, was not charged, drove home & slept in his own bed that night.
I suspect the police did consider "the entire situation" and concluded that nothing in the step-son's otherwise reprehensible behavior constituted an imminent threat to do serious harm to his father-in-law. That's the threshold for introducing a deadly weapon for defense. Ranting and raving in a loud, angry voice, no matter how upsetting, isn't enough.

I think the father-in-law would not be in his current trouble had he
  1. Ordered the son-in-law to leave. If he did so, even though his departure was accompanied by more ranting and raving, the problem would have been solved.
  2. If the son-in-law refused, called 911 to report an individual who was causing a disturbance and has refused to leave.
  3. If the son-in-law attacked in retaliation for the order or the 911 call, it would have been legal self defense to introduce the gun.
 
Charlie Martinez -- once you get rolling in your project to research self defense law, you will find it to be quite fascinating!

Here are some suggestions on books that you might find interesting:

THE STREET-SMART GUN BOOK by John. S. Farnam

THE FARNAM METHOD OF DEFENSIVE HANDGUNNING (new 2nd edition)
by John. S. Farnam

IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME: THE ROLE OF THE FIREARM IN PERSONAL PROTECTION (1980) by Massad F. Ayoob

THE TRUTH ABOUT SELF PROTECTION (1984) by Massad F. Ayoob

THE GUN DIGEST BOOK OF COMBAT HANDGUNNERY (5th edition) (2003)
by Massad F. Ayoob

STRESSFIRE (1984) by Massad Ayoob

IN SELF DEFENSE by Mike Izumi

ARMED RESPONSE by David S. Kenik

THE LAW OF SELF DEFENSE: A GUIDE FOR THE ARMED CITIZEN by Andrew F. Branca

FIGHTING SMARTER by Tom Givens

SURVIVAL SHOOTING by Tom Givens

DEFENSIVE USE OF FIREARMS by Stephen P. Wenger
 
Thank you Jeff22. I looked further into my former neighbor's case & learned that he fired his gun into the air several times to try to scare away the stepson. I also found out that the stepson has a criminal record but don't know whether or not he's a violent person. My former neighbor (he moved away) is now under house arrest until 2024. He was not locked up in jail probably because he is so obese that he cannot move from his bed or wheel chair w/o assistance. The stepson was the one who called 911 & reported the step father to the police.
Based on this new information it appears that firing the gun, even if intentionally into the ceiling of the house was enough to turn what was originally a victim into the perpetrator. Things make more sense now but nevertheless the line continues to seem extremely fine.
 
Charlie Martinez -- once you get rolling in your project to research self defense law, you will find it to be quite fascinating!.....

I suggest adding to the list The Principles of Personal Defense, by Jeff Cooper. It's really not about the law, but it does offer some interesting and, I think, useful insights into mindset.
 
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