Wet Tumbling Epiphany!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Doublehelix

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
Messages
1,059
OK, I am not sure about the rest of you, but there never seems to be enough time in the week to get everything done that I need (or want) to accomplish. Between family and work, I have to eek out those extra minutes where I can to shoot, reload and compete.

So I am always looking for ways to increase my efficiency and throughput.

I realized last night that I was really low on clean 9mm brass, and I have 3 weekends in a row of matches coming up, so I needed to get some ammo made ASAP.

I tend to process in batches, so when I wet tumble, I usually do about 10 loads or so over the course of a couple of days, and then won't do any again for a while.

I processed my first 3 batches, and then thought: "I wonder what would happen if I washed without the SS pins?"

I have seen several posts around the 'Net where folks claim that they stopped using pins, and their brass was "just as clean". I have always been skeptical of this claim, and never even bothered to try it without pins. There is no way it would work as well, right???

What an idiot I am!!! :confused:

I decided to try my first batch today without pins, just a couple of squirts of Armorall Wash & Wax, and a .45 caseful of Lemishine, and NO PINS.

Wow. :what:

The cases look amazing. Seriously. I think the brass-on-brass peening is good enough, and the extra SS pins don't add enough extra shine to be worth the effort.

When the run was done, I just rinsed and put in the dryer. Done. No separating out the pins in the a straining tumbler, no magnet to get the stray pins, and WAY LESS WORK OVERALL!!!

Are they as shiny as the ones I washed with the pins? Maybe not quite, but honestly, I really can't tell the difference. Now for those folks that decap and are trying to get pristine primer pockets, maybe the pins would make a difference, but I also gave up decapping about 2 years ago due to the extra workload.

Anyway, for those who are trying to speed up their workflow: TRY IT!!! SERIOUSLY!!! I can't believe I waited so long to do this. I really didn't expect the results to be this good. I figured "clean" but not "shiny". Boy, was I wrong. The brass looks amazing, and it takes me just a fraction of the time to rinse and stick the brass in the dryer.

If you have read these threads before and been skeptical like I was, at least try it once before you disregard it.

I am pleasantly surprised, and very happy! :)
 
Curious what you put the brass in when you put it in the dryer. A linen bag of some kind?
 
I would not leave the primers in too long. If they corrode due to the water bath....you may not like the result.

I'm afraid I am addicted to shiny primer pockets.......for no rational reason. Who said reloading is 100% rational anyway. ;)
 
Curious what you put the brass in when you put it in the dryer. A linen bag of some kind?

Sorry for not being clear. I do not use a clothes dryer, but a brass dryer. I use the Frankford Arsenal Brass dryer, but any standard food dehydrator will work:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/304424/frankford-arsenal-platinum-series-brass-dryer

The brass just goes on the trays that get stacked. Works great.


I would not leave the primers in too long. If they corrode due to the water bath....you may not like the result.

I'm afraid I am addicted to shiny primer pockets.......for no rational reason. Who said reloading is 100% rational anyway. ;)

Yeah, I worried about that too, but I have not had any issues whatsoever with primers getting corroded and sticking in the brass when reloading.

I used to be addicted to shiny primer pockets too. Necessity became the overriding factor that trumped my love for clean primer pockets. But then again, I shoot and load A LOT, and seem to have very little time to spend reloading and processing. I have definitely moved from the overly anal to the overly practical, and it does go against my nature, I have to say!!!
 
Interesting!

I am in the midst of a little "Wet Tumbling" Regimen Trial Mod of my own ...

After decapping ~500 .38spl cases prior to FARTing them (I still use pins), I happened to glance at the ~2000 9x19 fired cases that I also must process and thought,

"Hmmm ... I should try FARTing those without decapping them and then see how tough it is to assure that the water in the primer shells is gone so that I can just automatically remove them with the resize stroke in the reloading process. That will, almost certainly, be easier than manually decapping two thousand cases, right?"

So ... after leaving cases, post-FART, in-the-breeze overnight (to assure my minimum normal level of dry), I arranged 1000 on sheet pans, upright, and put them in my 170º oven for an hour. The other 1000 I carefully tipped upright and will leave them in-the-breeze for 48 more hours.

At that time I will decap a few of each to check the results. <fingers crossed>
 
"Now for those folks that decap and are trying to get pristine primer pockets, maybe the pins would make a difference, but I also gave up decapping about 2 years ago due to the extra workload."
I'll confess to being one of "those folks" but I'm not looking for pristine primer pockets but looking to keep primer smooge from gumming up my progressive press.
That's what de-capping prior to pins/no pins tumbling does for me and is well worth the extra workload/time.
Plus the cleaner INSIDE results with pins makes the visual powder check easier.
Not the only way, just my way,
jmo
:uhoh:
 
Last edited:
Interesting. I have a Frankford Arsenal rotary case tumbler system now and after doing my first pass the SS pin business was the only thing I thought was a bit of a pain in the back side. So, the next session will be without the SS pins.

Now, since there are a number of Lemi Shine for this or that which one do you all use please?

P.S. The Frankford Arsenal Brass dryer works well IMO.
 
Plus the cleaner INSIDE results with pins makes the visual powder check easier.

GREAT POINT!!! I totally forgot about that. I just checked a few of the cases, and you are right (of course), the insides are not cleaned well like I am used to.

Dang.

Oh well, it was great while it lasted...

Thanks for crushing my dreams Tilos!!! LOL! :rofl:

Looks like I am back to pins after all.:fire:
 
Now, since there are a number of Lemi Shine for this or that which one do you all use please?

I just use the standard Lemi-Shine, whatever that is. The point is to get the citric acid in the water to decrease the pH, so I am guessing that any version will work.
 
Removing the pins won't make enough room in the tumbler to turn 10 loads into 1. Why not just get a much larger tumbler and run one load and be finished?
 
Yup, got to have the pins for clean insides and primer pockets.

Yep. I knew about the primer pockets, but the inside of the case never even occurred to me. Dang. I knew this, but wasn't thinking. Oh well...


Removing the pins won't make enough room in the tumbler to turn 10 loads into 1. Why not just get a much larger tumbler and run one load and be finished?

That is an option I suppose, but the big pain is separating the pins, and then I would have to find room in my garage for such a large device. I have seem someone around with a large tumbler that is the size of a portable concrete mixer, which was pretty cool, but I would never fit one in my garage. The FART fits on a shelf under my workbench just perfectly.
 
Sorry for not being clear. I do not use a clothes dryer, but a brass dryer. I use the Frankford Arsenal Brass dryer, but any standard food dehydrator will work:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/304424/frankford-arsenal-platinum-series-brass-dryer

The brass just goes on the trays that get stacked. Works great.




Yeah, I worried about that too, but I have not had any issues whatsoever with primers getting corroded and sticking in the brass when reloading.

I used to be addicted to shiny primer pockets too. Necessity became the overriding factor that trumped my love for clean primer pockets. But then again, I shoot and load A LOT, and seem to have very little time to spend reloading and processing. I have definitely moved from the overly anal to the overly practical, and it does go against my nature, I have to say!!!
Ah, well that makes a hell of a lot more sense. I was thinking "Isn't that really loud?" :D:eek:
 
I was really low on clean 9mm brass ... I needed to get some ammo made ASAP.
I can have my spent brass ready to reload in 15 minutes dry tumbled in walnut media treated with NuFinish. No need to dry brass either. Not mirror shine but clean enough to reload. :D

Cabela's tumbler (Same as Berry's 400) has capacity of 1000 9mm brass but I usually tumble around 800 for faster cleaning.
 
Last edited:
DSCF0432 (Large).JPG Another epiphany, It is amazing how clean and shiny brass can get with no water, Lemishine , pins or drying. Just put it in a vibrating tumbler with corn or walnut media and some NuFinsh and WOW they get really clean and shiny!:rofl:
 
If I don't deprime before wet tumbling I don't do it. I would just rather throw them in the vibrating tumbler and be done with pistol brass. Trying to get all the water out of the primer packet takes a higher temp and longer time to dry them out.
 
I'm not going to get into the wet/dry "wars" again, it's been done already, many times, but will posts links if requested :uhoh:

I started wet tumbling using the old sieve thing to separate pins/brass, even had that overpriced FA magnet, that didn't work well at all, and took way too much time for brass/pins separation.
OK, here's the process I ended up using posted in yet "another wet tumbling thread":what:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/how-do-you-wet-tumble.848606/page-2#post-11099527
done here,
:thumbup:
 
Last edited:
I just got the "Mini" FART from Grafs, and I started playing around this afternoon. I'm checking every hour and so far the cases look nice, but 2-1/2 hours in and the primer pockets don't even look touched. And they are certainly not spotless. How long can I expect to have this thing running ?
 
The "tipping point" I've always used was:

1. If you're not going pop the primers out, don't use the pins...part of the cleaning action is the flow of water "through" the cases.
2. If you're going to pop out the primers, you should use pins...the flow of water through the case without pins is less efficient.

I neither de-prime nor use pins for cleaning my handgun cases. I'm not worried about either the primer pockets nor the inside of the cases. For 9mm, .40, or .45, I can see into the cases well enough to check powder...I have the KMS Squared UFO lighting system installed on my press; for taller cases, I use a Powder Check die.

For drying, when it isn't hot enough outside to use Mother Nature, I use the oven. You need to set the temperature high enough to boil out the water...at least 212 degrees, for about 20 mins. I have a friend who dries his case in his clothes dryer. No additional noise as he uses the sweater rack...also about 20 mins
 
I just got the "Mini" FART from Grafs, and I started playing around this afternoon. I'm checking every hour and so far the cases look nice, but 2-1/2 hours in and the primer pockets don't even look touched. And they are certainly not spotless. How long can I expect to have this thing running ?
You need to use stainless steel pins if you want the primer pockets clean, as well as the insides of the cases. I don't think the "lite" model comes with the pins. If you run with the pins, primer pockets should also be clean within a couple hours. I also quit using the pins, as the outsides look fine and people have been reloading brass for years without any tumbling and the outside of the cases look like new after tumbling with water, Dawn, and lemishine. I de-cap before tumbling to make sure primer pockets dry in the food dehydrator, or in summer heat.
 
9mm ... I have 3 weekends in a row of matches coming up
I guess we could myth bust whether clean vs not clean inside of case has any affect on accuracy but I doubt it. And even if it does, I think it will be overshadowed by other reloading variables.

Another epiphany, It is amazing how clean and shiny brass can get with no water, Lemishine , pins or drying. Just put it in a vibrating tumbler with corn or walnut media and some NuFinsh
Below is spent brass dry tumbled for 20 minutes in untreated corncob media and Cabela's tumbler (Same as Berry's 400). For me, clean enough to use for "match grade" loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...s-with-open-sights.779146/page-2#post-9892605

Load fired was pulled RMR 9mm 115 gr plated RN with 4.0-4.2 gr Promo loaded to 1.125" - 1.130" OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/quick-20-minute-brass-good-enough-to-reload.849033/

index.php
 
Last edited:
I wet tumble handgun brass occasionally without the pins.The only difference I noticed is the interior of the case isn’t as clean. I never deprime before tumbling and do not care about the primer pockets in my handgun brass.
 
For drying, when it isn't hot enough outside to use Mother Nature, I use the oven. You need to set the temperature high enough to boil out the water...at least 212 degrees, for about 20 mins. ...
Only if you need them PDQ. :)

I just grabbed 5 9x19 cases from the bag with the group that I heated in the oven for ~60 minutes at a setting of 170º (following one day in-the-breeze) and 5 from the group that I have simply left in-the-breeze for 3 days. [for reference, see post #5]

All 10 of the primers and primer pockets are bone-dry, with powdery residue.

Ready to reload. :D

BTW, the reasons that I chose 170º on my kitchen oven:
[1] It was the lowest setting.
[2] I did not know if the shiny cases would tarnish from the heat, so I kept it low.
[3] I did not want to take a chance of screwing up the wax coating left by the AAW&W with a higher heat setting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top