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I am not an expert and have no personal experience, but I understood that Lilja, Bartlein, Kreiger were high-end barrels. Timney and Geiselle are high end triggers but there are others that are comparable for less (see drop-in trigger comparison reviews for details). Besides that, the rest of the parts are mostly mil-spec or bling. There are brand names that put packages together with premium parts. They might chamber their own barrels, produce furniture with their brand, and machine billet uppers and lowers. They'd charge a premium brand price for warranty support and resale value.

That's my understanding. If I've got anything wrong, I'll learn more from this thread.
 
There is some very good information in this thread and to all you Shooter/Builders a big Thank You for sharing it. :thumbup:

But, as I read it, I just can't help but hear Johnny Cash singing in the background, "I built it one piece at a time..." ;)
 
Things that contribute to precision:
Barrel, Bolt, headspace, chamber, crown, stress relieving, lapping upper receiver to barrel fitment, trigger, ergonomics.

Things that contribute to reliability: magazines, feed ramp geometry, tolerances, heat treatment, stress relieving, coatings, bolt lug design, metallurgy, gas port location and size, buffer spring and weight, and the all important lubrication.
 
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My Larue rifles are very accurate. My Falkor Defense is the most accurate AR patterned rifle I have ever owned, but it is a 6.5 Creedmoor and not an AR-15. I’ve shot Wilson Combat rifles and they were accurate, 3/4-1 MOA rifles. I had a Rock River 20” heavy barreled rifle that would consistently shoot 1/2 MOA five shot groups with 69 gr Federal GMM. Wish I had that rifle back. JP also builds consistently accurate rifles. The only LMT I’ve ever owned was a 1-1.5 MOA rifle, but it was not built for precision. I’ve had the chance to get behind a GAP-10 and it was extremely accurate, bolt gun accurate, but no more so than my Falkor.
 
Just as a point of reference, in 223, my spikes tactical 16" barreled upper, my palmetto premium upper, my Rock River predator pursuit upper, all shot 5 shot groups at 1"@100yds. My palmetto freedom barrel and my 13" ballistic advantage barrels shoot more like 1.5-2" 5 shot groups.

In 300aac, My 16" mas defense branded and voodoo innovations barrels shot 1" at 100. I haven't fired the sbr blackout at 100yds.

My ballistic advantage 16" Hanson barrel in 6.5grendel is still being broken in and developing loads, but looks like it wants to shoot just over 1.25 moa. I was really hoping for better there.

All my shots are with my own handloads. The only factory stuff I have shot was some Hornady American Gunner in 6.5 Grendel that I used to break in the barrel and acquire brass. It shot 2 moa.

Long story short, I find ar's to be more accurate than not, so I no longer sweat buying a cheaper barrel. They still seem to shoot pretty well. and I find that I have had many more uppers than I thought I ever would given that I don't actually like the platform much.
 
Just as a point of reference, in 223, my spikes tactical 16" barreled upper, my palmetto premium upper, my Rock River predator pursuit upper, all shot 5 shot groups at 1"@100yds. My palmetto freedom barrel and my 13" ballistic advantage barrels shoot more like 1.5-2" 5 shot groups.

In 300aac, My 16" mas defense branded and voodoo innovations barrels shot 1" at 100. I haven't fired the sbr blackout at 100yds.

My ballistic advantage 16" Hanson barrel in 6.5grendel is still being broken in and developing loads, but looks like it wants to shoot just over 1.25 moa. I was really hoping for better there.

All my shots are with my own handloads. The only factory stuff I have shot was some Hornady American Gunner in 6.5 Grendel that I used to break in the barrel and acquire brass. It shot 2 moa.

Long story short, I find ar's to be more accurate than not, so I no longer sweat buying a cheaper barrel. They still seem to shoot pretty well. and I find that I have had many more uppers than I thought I ever would given that I don't actually like the platform much.

One has to search to find an AR now days that won't shoot better than 2 MOA. The platform has had so much development on it and the ingenious design lends itself for mass production of parts with tight tolerances, much more than other designs.
 
Op. There's atleast 10 great ar barrel companys out there.

Good time to be in ar market.


Jp
Woa
Fn
Lmt
Rainer
Xcal
Faxon
Saturn
Ect. Ect
 
One has to search to find an AR now days that won't shoot better than 2 MOA. The platform has had so much development on it and the ingenious design lends itself for mass production of parts with tight tolerances, much more than other designs.

Tend to agree, though good barrels demand good ammo. Some of the stuff out there will make you question your choice of upper for sure. Match ammo and commercial varmit rounds will show the shine a lot better than bulk 55 grain ball. Heck I've been seeing much better results with the zinc steel cased ammo from Tula over the Federal black box American Eagle.
 
Op. There's atleast 10 great ar barrel companys out there.

Good time to be in ar market.
Uhhhh....Kreiger, Wilson, Shilen

I have no idea which of those you listed buy their barrels versus make their own. The ones I listed are makers. And they make really, really good match grade stuff
 
Tend to agree, though good barrels demand good ammo. Some of the stuff out there will make you question your choice of upper for sure. Match ammo and commercial varmit rounds will show the shine a lot better than bulk 55 grain ball. Heck I've been seeing much better results with the zinc steel cased ammo from Tula over the Federal black box American Eagle.

It always in my mind comes down to what is the use of the rifle in question? The buyer must ask that first and then move onto what to buy.

If one just wants a self-defense rifle, for the odd chance of a societal breakdown then a budget AR from Palmetto, S&W, Ruger, Springfield, CMMG, Del-ton, etc. is more than up to the task. Buy one of those and 1,000 rounds of ammo and put it through it's paces to ensure everything is working properly, then buy more ammo and magazines and cleaning supplies and a few spare parts and call it a day.

If one wants to train in self-defense courses and the like and train hard with their AR, then an AR from KAC, LMT, Colt, BCM, PSA Premium should be considered because their 1-1.5 MOA is more than enough for such purposes and they are built with good parts and materials and will run well. One still should shake them down with ammo.

Varminters, paper punchers, long distance shooters, hunters will have different needs that should be addressed, and given the market size of AR's there's someone who addresses that particular need. And if not, assemble what you want for your needs.
 
Op. There's atleast 10 great ar barrel companys out there.

Good time to be in ar market.


Jp
Woa
Fn
Lmt
Rainer
Xcal
Faxon
Saturn
Ect. Ect

No offense to this poster, but Saturn, Faxon, and Rainer don’t deserve to be on any “top barrel maker” list. LMT makes good battle rifle barrels, but I have never seen one of their own barrels be a precision rifle barrel. If I were building a precision AR, only WOA would get my money from that list (knowing I would take the option to get a WOA built barrel using a Shilen produced blank). Some of this list are “ok” barrels, some are “good.” Only ONE, maybe two of these are anything I would call suitable for a high precision AR - specifically WOA and MAYBE X caliber. Maybe... and only if I couldn’t get one of half a dozen other match barrel makers to sell me one in time or on budget.

This is where the gap becomes apparent - when you start talking about Shilen, Proof, Krieger, Bartlein, Lilja, Broughton, Brux, Hawk Hill, Benchmark, and a handful of other precision barrel makers, and the short list of those who offer drop-in AR barrels, instead of just blanks to be turned, headspaced, and ported for AR’s. Lots and lots of companies make AR barrels. Lots of companies make OK AR barrels, lots make good barrels, but only a handful really make great precision AR barrels. Custom smiths can turn any maker’s blank into an AR barrel, but often the juice isn’t worth the squeeze, since there are others readily available.
 
No offense to this poster, but Saturn, Faxon, and Rainer don’t deserve to be on any “top barrel maker” list. LMT makes good battle rifle barrels, but I have never seen one of their own barrels be a precision rifle barrel. If I were building a precision AR, only WOA would get my money from that list (knowing I would take the option to get a WOA built barrel using a Shilen produced blank). Some of this list are “ok” barrels, some are “good.” Only ONE, maybe two of these are anything I would call suitable for a high precision AR - specifically WOA and MAYBE X caliber. Maybe... and only if I couldn’t get one of half a dozen other match barrel makers to sell me one in time or on budget.

This is where the gap becomes apparent - when you start talking about Shilen, Proof, Krieger, Bartlein, Lilja, Broughton, Brux, Hawk Hill, Benchmark, and a handful of other precision barrel makers, and the short list of those who offer drop-in AR barrels, instead of just blanks to be turned, headspaced, and ported for AR’s. Lots and lots of companies make AR barrels. Lots of companies make OK AR barrels, lots make good barrels, but only a handful really make great precision AR barrels. Custom smiths can turn any maker’s blank into an AR barrel, but often the juice isn’t worth the squeeze, since there are others readily available.



Probably preaching to the choir..... But all ar barrels are roll of the dice. Hit or miss. Because of the extra stress involved making them.
 
Probably preaching to the choir..... But all ar barrels are roll of the dice. Hit or miss. Because of the extra stress involved making them.

Again, with all due respect - that’s not a thing for the top match barrel makers.

Everybody makes mistakes here and there and bad barrels CAN make it out of anybody’s house, but if you buy a Proof, Shilen, Krieger, or Bartlein, it’s going to shoot better than 1moa. Without question.

Faxon, Saturn, Odin, Midway/Stoner, etc will all have some ambiguity, some surprisingly good barrels, some dogs, and a lot of OK barrels, but that’s why they aren’t on anyone’s top barrel maker lists - or at least shouldn’t be.
 
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Wondering about the cold hammer forged barrel like Fabrique National makes?

I have heard FN makes more commercial market AR barrels than anyone else.

For hammer forged barrels, the FN barrels are exceptional. It’s probably fair to say they are reliably some of the most accurate hammer forged barrels on the market. But as I described above, these aren’t the most accurate TYPE of barrels on the market. In a way of speaking, the FN barrels might represent the fastest stockcar on the track, but stockcars as a type-class aren’t the fastest cars on the track, as funny cars and drag racers pick up where stockcars fall off.
 
fastest stockcar on the track, but stockcars as a type-class aren’t the fastest cars on the track, as funny cars and drag racers pick up where stockcars fall off.

World of Outlaws 410 sprint cars would be.
 
World of Outlaws 410 sprint cars would be.

This is a great example of my sentiment:

Don’t the 410’s top out at 190?

Whereas NASCAR stockers will run right around 200, open wheeler indy’s around 225, and of course, long slung Top Fuel drag cars will run 130mph faster... I’m not really a racing fan, but my industry has been a heavy sponsor for many years, and the family of one of my best friends growing up used to own a dirt track and he drove Sprints for several years - so I’ve been “adjacent” enough to take interest in speeds. And of course, it might be a stretch to call the purpose designed land speed record cars “race cars,” but they wouldn’t be anything but that - and the wheel driven monsters cross 400mph, with jet cars crossing 750.

All of them are than my F150 for sure, faster than my street legal, import legal sport/superbikes too, but there is ONE type of car which is faster than any other type, and among that type, some are faster than others. There are classes of barrels, and brands of barrels which are simply, as a class, more accurate than others. Sprint cars can turn tighter circles than drag cars, and can race farther - but they aren’t faster. Chrome lined barrels can tolerate automatic fire better than stainless air gauged match barrels - but they aren’t more accurate.
 
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