DPMS 223

The LGS here in town runs sales on the Oracles every couple months at $399. Both my sons bought DPMS's from them; I have the older son's Sportical because he traded it to me for my Savage Axis and his old 870 back.

(QUOTE)="Keyfer 55, post: 11148615, member: 250165"]Are any real difference between DPMS and Bushmaster.

Not in my opinin, I believe both are owned by Remington.

Both are entry level guns that will run and wet the appetite for more.

Generally speaking they are both cheap enough to buy and play with till you decide to start upgrading them with triggers stocks etc.

For $480 I'm guessing it's a DPMS Oracle?

The Oracle and the S&W Sport are more or less the same gun mechanically, but there's a couple tradeoffs between them.

-The DPMS has a pencil barrel, the S&W has a mid weight barrel. The DPMS is going to feel a little less front-heavy shooting offhand, the S&W is going to be a little better shooting off a bench (although it will shoot offhand just fine too).
-The DPMS is a flat top that will need a scope or red dot. The S&W can be scoped, but comes out of the box ready to shoot with irons.
-The DPMS has an oversized M4 style handguard that a buddy of mine compared to "fondling a vacuum cleaner". The S&W has a thinner handguard that fits small hands better.

It depends on what you want to do with your rifle, but overall, I would lean towards the Smith.

Mosin Bubba is spot on; The handguards are ungainly, but that is easily and cheaply fixed. The accuracy is OK to 200 yards, the longest I've shot mine. My son tagged 4 deer with it before he traded it to me, from 10 to 80 yards, all heart/lung shots. If I were buying one, I'd probably go with the Smith over the DPMS (I would build exactly what I want before either), but if you can get the DPMS at a good price, it'll work for you.

My Frankengun runs a chrome lined DPMS barrel.
Dunno about the rest of their parts, but the barrel I bought is fine....no complaints.

The DPMS Oracle is hovering about the 450 mark, for some reason the Sportical is pricing a bit higher. I bought the Sportical on sale at Academy couple years ago ($469) and has ran flawless, prolly have around 1000 rounds through it now.

Nothing is wrong with DPMS. It's a budget rifle that lacks features of some other models, but the quality is usually "good enough".

That said, for $480, you can build a lot nicer AR from PSA than you're going to get from DPMS. By build, I mean just buying the upper and lower separately and mating them together, or building the "rifle kits" and a lower, but where you have to assemble the lower.

Keyfer 55 said:

Are any real difference between DPMS and Bushmaster.

Click to expand...

Traditionally, DPMS was the “budget brand,” and Bushmaster was the more refined model. Ford and Lincoln. I built about a hundred and fifty or so AR’s on primarily Bushmaster parts, and have used several DPMS rifles over the years.

There are a lot of rumors about lower Bushmaster quality at the end of their AR run, but personally, I haven’t seen it. Customer service started falling off, as many models just weren’t supported any longer, and specific parts simply not available, but I can’t say the late model Bushy’s are any worse than any time in the last 20yrs. DPMS’s, on the other hand, did improve significantly over that span.

Other than FN barrels, there’s nothing special about the PSA rifle over a DPMS or Bushmaster. The forgings will have the same origin, as will a great deal of the small parts, the same as any carbines like them in the market.

I’ll admit, I’m biased towards Bushmaster branding over DPMS, but only from the reality of a couple decades ago when the Bushmaster was the “upgraded model” of the DPMS. Today, the gap is smaller, small enough to say there really isn’t a gap any longer. But after 20+ years, I like the looks of the Rattler on the side better than the Panther.

The gas block on the Oracle is an unusual height so standard front BUIS don’t work. You have to buy a special height front sight for it. It applies to the .223 and .308.

I don’t know a lot about AR’s. I have one, a DPMS A2 Classic purchased in 2012. Other than the horrible trigger which I immediately replaced I’ve been very pleased with it. It hasn’t seen much use but I’ve been very happy with the accuracy. It has a VX-R 2-7x33 mounted on it.

Keyfer 55 said:

I've been wanting a 223 /5.56. just don't like the recoil anymore . I've had an ar10 give
It to my son. I Don't shoot lots of round, an
entry level gun would do fine . A few more
$$$ would a S&W be any better???

Click to expand...

The S&W M&P is an excellent value. They're nice guns and very reliable.

That said, for the money PSA makes the best deals going. As other said, just get a lower and pick an upper. The choices are endless. Just be sure that for a first time pick an upper with the BCG and charge handle.

The lowest priced lower and uppers are good in that they work well. But keep in mind that the stock is cheap and the hand guards are nothing to write home about. For a few bucks more I'd get the MOE lower which has Magpul grips and stock, and I'd get a little nicer upper with a free float hand guard. And even with this you'd be under or right at your budget. (you'll also need some magazines)

Also keep in mind that with PSA you only have to ship the lower to an FFL. Anything else can go right to your home.

I'd suggest getting on their daily deal mailing list and then drool over the deals. Just watch for free shipping and you're golden.

I traded into an Oracle a few years ago, I promptly turned around and ran 1000 rounds through it trying to make it fail... it didn't. For ~$400 it's pretty hard to beat. The biggest shortcoming on it has to be the barrel... it is very lightweight. I had issues with POI change when I was shooting slung up... the pressure from the sling deflected the barrel.

I wound up giving mine to my brother... who will likely only shoot it once a year. It's a great entry-level or range AR, if that's what you are looking for.

I just bought a DPMS Oracle to use for a nightscope. I bought a Magpull MOE handguard to replace the supplied DPMS vacuum cleaner forend. The magpull has heatshields while the supplied ones do not. Also, MOE k2 type pistol grip to replace the original grip which I like waaaaay better.

As said, the D. P. M. S. is entry level, basic. But they do work. For my use that wierd gasblock height won't matter as it isn't getting any iron sights. I have some better high end ARs, which are better equipped. They all seem to run okay though.

As for Bushmaster vs. D. P. M. S. .... what brand name do you want on the magwell?

I would check out Palmetto. Same money but with much better components. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa15-16-nitride-m4-carbine-556-nato-moe-ar15-fde.html

4150 vs 4140 barrel steel
Nitrided barrel
7075 milspec vs 6061 commercial receiver extension
Carpenter 158 bolt
Magpul stock, hand guard, and grip

Keyfer 55 said:

I've been wanting a 223 /5.56. just don't like the recoil anymore . I've had an ar10 give
It to my son. I Don't shoot lots of round, an
entry level gun would do fine . A few more
$$$ would a S&W be any better???

Click to expand...

A S&W Sport II would serve you well. It has a heavier barrel than the entry level DPMS, and also comes with sights. If you want minimal recoil, you might consider something from Palmetto State Armory with a rifle length gas system and heavy barrel profile. They offer lots of options at very attractive prices.

I'd go psa right now they have a lower for 29.99 the sale is good till tomorrow at noon. Then pick up a complete upper with ept lower build kit. They also have ammo deals on 1k fiochi 223 55 fmjbt 279 free shipping. There are other deals that give 10 30 rd pmags and 1k ammo for about 350.

I just built an AR from psa on an Anderson lower I've put almost 200 rounds through it with no issues.

My first AR upper was a DPMS Oracle. It shot just fine. I ditched the handguard and gas block and mounted a Troy handguard and a low profile block and it was an even better gun.
I used it as a plinker and and excuse to buy another set of parts to make another AR.

I eventually sold it for what I had in it.

PSA has their Magpul carbine on sale right now for about $450... it's basically the same thing but comes with Magpul furniture... and at least a BU rear sight.

I mounted a red dot on mine... but it didn't work out so well. When I took the rear cap off, all the RedDots fell out.

I'll have to try a Green Dot on mine........

You can see green better in daylight anyway.

Maybe also check out bear creek arsenal?

Definitely budget minded, I picked up a 7.62x39 upper for $199, mated it to a PSA lower with 2 stage trigger that I nabbed on sale for $179. I'm into it about $450 with a few magazines and a cheap optic

I've only put about 120 rounds through it so far. It's been flawless. Groups are 1-1.5 inches at 100. Maybe I got lucky but I am impressed and already scheming my next rifle from bear creek, a 450 bushmaster.

Their prices are great, good to hear feedback on the quality. I am looking at a 10.5" .5.56 upper for a pistol build.