Cast bullet questions/Hi tek

ohihunter2014 said:

3) When reading about cast bullets I see posts about sizing them to proper bore size. Do I need to do this or is this only for homebrew cast/lube bullets? I only see MBC Hi Tek offers one size up from normal jacketed size.

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Bullet to barrel fit with lubed lead bullet is so when bullet base is bumped by expanding gas, deformation of base squeeze the lube channel(s) and squish out the lube to seal with the barrel, forming an "O" ring seal.

Tighter the bullet to barrel fit (.001"+ over groove diameter of barrel) helps this process and decrease/eliminate leading.

With powder coated/Hi-Tek coated bullets, coating acts as lubricant and prevent leading. I believe best of powder coating has been tested to 1800 fps (without gas check) before coating failed and barrel started to lead. Typically coated bullets come sized larger like lubed lead bullets which helps with deformation of bullet base/obturation and improves chamber pressure build and consistency for greater accuracy of loads.

The coating has nothing to do with the bullet mushrooming. That is a factor of the bullet hardness.
I personally have fired several thousand of the hytech coated bullets, and had no issues with barrel fouling,
Bullet to barrel fit is the same whether they are coated or lubed.
AOL is same as any other bullet with the same shape. Most important here is that they feed and chamber. Start with aol from a similar shap bullet see if it passes the plunk test in your barrel, then wit a few dummy rounds see if they feed.
Maker is less important than size and hardness.

Above plus
1. PC tends to mask minor fit problems
2. Bevel base boolits make it easier to reload without shaving metal, but more difficult for boolit base expand to seal the bore
3. Fit being the same brn 12 boolits seal base to bore better than higher bens such as 18 to 24. I personally use brn 7-10, but good luck finding it commercially.
4. Also good luck finding the .002 - .003 over bore size to make boolits shoot with minimum/no leading.
Jmh hands on experience

All the hitek MBC bullets I have shot have been brinell 18. There was no expansion.
Look for ones marketed for 44 spl.

As far as question #4, You crimp to the crimp groove on the bullet to get your OAL. There is really no other way unless you use a taper crimp die but that would only be for 38 spl of the three calibers you mentioned.

When they say groove-less they are referring to the lube groove not the crimp groove. The lube groove is in the middle of the shank of the bullet. The crimp groove is on top of the straight side (shank) of the bullet.

When I'm shooting coated bullets from any maker I still prefer to have the lube groove in the bullet for some of the same reasons that the all copper bullets have two or three on them. It give the material that the riflings are squeezing some where to go with out compressing it into the riflings, and adding more friction than necessary.
The makers don't want to put the lube groove in the bullets if they don't have to because it's one more place for the bullets to hang in the mold when they are being cast.

Maybe it's not necessary to worry about that with coated bullets but I'm old fashioned.
With the Hi-Tech coating there is not further need to add any extra lube to the lube groove on the bullets or resize them. You just shoot them as they are.
You just have to pick a bullet dia that is about .001" over you bore size, but also make sure on revolvers that it will slide through the throats of the chambers.

ohihunter2014 said:

Okay guys got another one for ya. My LGS sells Lead and FMJ bullets on bulk. He has .358 DEWC for .11ct a piece. I thought about buying say 50 and giving them a shot before ordering 500 from MBC. What would be the odds that there is an accuracy difference between the two? I don't want to buy the LGS ones, have them shoot terrible and write off DEWC all together. Is there anything special I have to do to these or just flare a little more, seat and roll crimp?

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That is an impossible question to answer. It's like asking "I have a gun, two bullets, several powders which bullet will be accurate"??

The big variable is the actual shooter.

Buy some of the LGS bullets and try them, You can get them by the piece so what is there to lose??. No one knows how the bullets were made or how "good" they may or may not be.

Double end wadcutters in .38 Special are a great place to start learning about cast bullets. The combination tends to be very forgiving. .358 diameter tends to work in most guns. Velocities tend to be low and most fast and medium burning powders do well, and the exact hardness of the lead at those velocities isn't usually critical. You'll get some powder fouling and lube in the barrel, but you're unlikely to see any leading.

If you get serious and you're an experienced shooter, naturally, some combinations will work better than others in a given gun, but you'll rarely find a listed low velocity powder charge in .38 Special that's truly awful.

You can order sample packs from mbc. That is what I would do. Their coated bullets are well made.

I shot a doe last year with a cast bullet that was about 12 bhn. Based on the size of the exit wound I got expansion with impact velocity around 1700 fps. In 44 cal I think expansion is nice, but not necessary.

Brazos Precision Bullets will make you bullets in a number of different sizes, right on their web site:

http://www.brazosprecision.com/Lead-Bullets_c_1.html

With polymer coating, is it still necessary for the base to expand to prevent leading? Does the coating protect against leading in a similar way that copper plating does?

I can only tell you that coated keeps my revolver from leading while traditional cast leads it up bad. If your bullets are slightly undersized your accuracy will suffer, but they won't lead.

I shoot almost 100% lead these days with probably 80% of those being HiTek Coated. I can give you my experience after shooting 15-20K rounds in .38/.357 and .44spl/mag. I get mine from Missouri, SNS Casting and Summers Enterprises. I buy from each because each has at least one different bullet that I find more accurate than others. I have shot the Coated bullets up to 1600 fps with NO LEADING. I find Coated Lead just as accurate as anything on the market. Secret is finding the right bullet/powder combination for a particular gun. Coated also shoots as clean as Jacketed. With all that being said, if I was looking for expansion, I would go to a softer lead like the SWCHP from Rim Rock Bullets or the Uncoated Lead Bullets from GT Bullets. AS far as accuracy, I have not tried the DEWC in Coated mainly because I still have about 5k HBWC to use up from Zero. I still use these in .38 when shooting 25 yards or less. Most of my shooting is at steel plates at 50, 75 and 100 yards and I use the 130gr and 158gr TNFP from SNS in .38 running around 1000fps and I love the 180gr Pugnose from Missouri in .357. I jack it up to around 1300fps as it is the bullet I use for Hog Hunting. Another great thing about the coated lead is you will get slightly faster velocity with coated versus uncoated as a bonus. One thing that has really sold me on Missouri is the sample packs of 100. That keeps you from having boxes of bullets sitting around that won't work in anything. Anytime I buy a new to me Revolver that I feel like I will keep and shoot a while, I always do a lot of testing and find the best load for that particular gun. Luckily I've found that the vast majority will like either the 130gr or the 158gr and I don't have to go searching for something different. Vast majority I load with 5.0gr of Universal. Pushes the 130 slightly faster but both weights have plenty of velocity to shoot out to 100 yards well. I'm a huge fan of HiTek Coated Lead and unless something amazing comes along, I see using them for ever. Funny reading back on the earlier post about the cost of bullets in a local shop, I couldn't tell you the cost of the Missouri or the SNS Bullets. They just work so well, I buy them. I'm sure a t some point I compared the cost with plated and uncoated but now I just buy and shoot!

Zendude said:

With polymer coating, is it still necessary for the base to expand to prevent leading? Does the coating protect against leading in a similar way that copper plating does?

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The expansion is still based on the hardness of the lead used. Think of the coating as just a hard lube that coats the entire bullet. I guess you can consider it like a copper plating, but those bullets also need to obturate.

1) Do MBC Hi Tek bullets mushroom like a normal lead bullet?

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A coated bullet is a normal lead bullet, just coated vs wax lubed.

2) Is there issues with the Hi Tek coating coming off and gumming up barrels?

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That photo above is how I test the adhesion of the coating to the lead. If I can smack them with a hammer, like the center bullet and the coating stays in place it’s not going to come off.

3) When reading about cast bullets I see posts about sizing them to proper bore size. Do I need to do this or is this only for homebrew cast/lube bullets?

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Bullet molds are two part devices that one pours lead into and subsequently open up to drop the parts out of. They might be too big for a bore but they could also be too small. One thing is fairly certain that they are not perfectly concentric. Forcing them through a smaller size die can fix two of the above three conditions.

4) How do you find OAL for these to know where to roll crimp them? I see some SWC say groove less.

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I find OAL in reloading manuals and confirm they will function in the barrel I plan to fire them during die set up. Google “plunk test”. I only roll crimp some revolver rounds and there is a spot intended for this in the bullet.

5) Does it matter the size or maker of lead/lube bullets?

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Yes and no. A perfect size cast bullet for a particular barrel will be better than a not so perfect any other style bullet. However, there are lots of us that just need something to go bang and hit something down range at times, so what matters isn’t ‘ultimate’ accuracy.

How do Blue Bullets compare to MBC or ACME coated? Friend of a friend (sponsored by Blue) was going on about how they are much better. Polymer coating superior to HiTek, more consistent, can be pushed harder, etc. I have 0 complaints for ACME or MBC coated cast but am now wondering if I am "missing out" on something since I never tried them?

ACME are about the least expensive 9mm (what i shoot most by far) projectiles I can get, I don't have any leading problems with them, and for basic range ammo I think they're very good choice. But I'm not trying to push 115gr 9mm to the 1500fps neighborhood either.....

Polymer coating superior to HiTek

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There are lots of polymers that wouldn’t be worth a darn as a bullet coating but the word covers a lot of area without being specific as to the composition.

Maybe a “space aged polymer”, the old marketing term when folks started making things using plastics.


https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/plastics/The-Basics/