First Reloading Experience (9mm)

bwalker36 said:

So the actual question should I be hearing powder shake?

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That’s a loaded question (sic)! I have ok hearing still, but I don’t hear powder shake in 9s. Most of my loads with the exception of Titegroup are in the 75-90% available case fill. If you did your napkin math correctly you should be ok. I use the depth rod on the caliper to measure from the case mouth down to the powder and then measure the case length since they may vary case to case, then the difference gives you the case head to powder level measurement.

I also cannot hear powder shake in the cases.

lordpaxman said:

That’s a loaded question (sic)! I have ok hearing still, but I don’t hear powder shake in 9s.

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ATLDave said:

I also cannot hear powder shake in the cases.

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Neither can I! I would not rely on hearing powder shake. If in doubt, pull the bullet.

Welcome aboard !

Several ideas to tuneup your reloading on the next go round...
• I like and load the Berry Hybrid HP too, but that's an expensive bullet for practice. To replicate the recoil for practice, simply seat a 124gr RN to the same seating depth. Try the Rocky Mnt Reloading 124gr plated RN next time. Click Here Shipping is FREE and as a board member there are discounts.

• Unique is a standard reloading powder, but it is not a modern powder. Thus it lacks a lot of refinements you might will appreciate. Look at Alliant BE-86, Alliant Sport Pistol, Winchester 231 (also sold as Hodgdon HP38), or Winchester WSF for your next powder purchase. In that general search order. You will see big improvements.

Hope this helps.

bwalker36 said:

Quick question for you all. Now i'm 99% sure I have not compressed the powder but I also can't hear it when I shake the loaded round. I can easily hear it with a factory fiocchi round so of course I pulled a bullet from one and the powder is significantly smaller so it takes up less room in the case. So the actual question should I be hearing powder shake? I did some napkin math on length of bullet, length of case and figuring how far I was seating the bullet. Then using calipers eyeballed the room left in the case and it seemed like i ad decent room. Sorry for double post but I wanted to ask this before I went to the range cause I loaded the 30 rounds I'm going to bring this week, I decided to forgo the 4.7 charge for now.

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If you are at 4.7 grains of Unique and a 124 grain bullet, that is going to come pretty close to filling the case, so you might not have much room for the powder to move around (I cannot hear the powder shake except for in larger rifle rounds anyway). If you are using the same brand cases, then you could weigh each cartridge and see if the weights are within a grain or two of each other and pull any that are way off to see what is going on. There will be variations in case and bullet weight, but if the same brand, you should be able to spot something that is way off. Of course, the golden rule is when in doubt, pull it out. It may be aggravating to pull a few, but that is better than damaging your gun...or worse, you.

• Weighing cases to see about powder differences simply doesn't work. The variations in the weight of the brass more than offsets the powder.

• Trying not to compress powders is only a general reloading guideline or "best practice"; it is not a rule. It is really only a serious condition with 1 or 2 powders (names of which no one can remember), which is why we generally tell novice reloaders to try and avoid it. However, Unique is not on the dangerous list. It's not something to aim for, but no harm will come with slightly compressed Unique loads in 9mm, which is what the OP may have with his upper end loads.

• The 9mm case is so small that I truly doubt anyone can hear powder "shake". Let's get away from these reloading "impressions" and "feelings", and get back to the real safety rules of reloading. Rule: If you are unsure about any cartridge you have assembled, then disassemble it. Period.

• The super low density (or "fluffiness") of Unique results in extreme case fill in 9mm, and thus some powder compression at higher loads. As per my last post, this is one reason to get a more modern powder.

• The big advantage of Unique for the novice is that it absolutely will not allow a double load of powder into the 9mm case. Double loads are a much, much greater concern for the novice vs. compressed loads. That's probably the biggest reason it's a good first run powder.

Hope this helps.

Yes, there are many instances in which you want a slightly compressed load.

rfwobbly said:

• Weighing cases to see about powder differences simply doesn't work. The variations in the weight of the brass more than offsets the powder.

• Trying not to compress powders is only a general reloading guideline or "best practice"; it is not a rule. It is really only a serious condition with 1 or 2 powders (names of which no one can remember), which is why we generally tell novice reloaders to try and avoid it. However, Unique is not on the dangerous list. It's not something to aim for, but no harm will come with slightly compressed Unique loads in 9mm, which is what the OP may have with his upper end loads.

• The 9mm case is so small that I truly doubt anyone can hear powder "shake". Let's get away from these reloading "impressions" and "feelings", and get back to the real safety rules of reloading. Rule: If you are unsure about any cartridge you have assembled, then disassemble it. Period.

• The super low density (or "fluffiness") of Unique results in extreme case fill in 9mm, and thus some powder compression at higher loads. As per my last post, this is one reason to get a more modern powder.

• The big advantage of Unique for the novice is that it absolutely will not allow a double load of powder into the 9mm case. Double loads are a much, much greater concern for the novice vs. compressed loads. That's probably the biggest reason it's a good first run powder.

Hope this helps.

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Weighing will NOT work for an exact measurement and as mentioned, I would only recommend it with cases of the same make (i.e. Winchester to Winchester, Aguila to Aguila, etc). It will tend to show you whether you are in the ball park. For instance, if you have 10 that measure 180 grains total weight, but one that is coming in at 175 grains, that MIGHT indicate a failure to charge the case with powder just as one coming in at 185 grains MIGHT indicate a double charge (assuming a 5 grain charge of powder) - though unlikely with Unique. Admittedly, this is more likely to give you an indication for heavier powder charges than lighter.

That being said, I do agree (as I said) that when in doubt, pull it out - even if you need to pull an entire batch to make sure. Better time spent at the reloading bench than in the hospital...or worse!

If you haven't sorted the cases by weight then trying to sort them by weight after loading them is mental masturbation.

Even among the same head stamp you're going to have enough variation to make it impossible to sort them.

Just try it. Take 100 fired 9mm cases of the same head stamp and weigh them. Now think about your charge weight on those cases. In almost every case your charge weight will be inside the variation of the case weight.

Wobbly

The other day I fooled around loading some 223. Change of pace. I weighed an LC cartridge before and then after charging to triple check my RCBS powder drop. Seemed it might be easier than dropping to a pan, moving the pan to the manual scale, picking up the pan and charging the case and then setting it up for the bullet. Thought to myself that less powder would be spilled with fat and arthritic fingers.

@gifbohane , a bit off topic, but, if you have a digital scale, it may have a tare function, so you can tare the case, drop the powder charge and then re-weigh it. The weight will be the powder charge. I do this frequently when loading on the progressive, and when doing .223 or other rifle tare the pan so the readout will be the powder throw. A manual scale does a similar thing when you zero the scale with the pan attached.
I believe @rfwobbly was just suggesting with 3-5 grains of powder and differences in 9mm case weights on the same order, unless you’re really OCD and measure/record each case weight you can’t weigh a loaded round and determine the powder throw with the necessary precision.

lordpaxman said:

@gifbohane , a bit off topic, but, if you have a digital scale, it may have a tare function, so you can tare the case, drop the powder charge and then re-weigh it. The weight will be the powder charge. I do this frequently when loading on the progressive, and when doing .223 or other rifle tare the pan so the readout will be the powder throw. A manual scale does a similar thing when you zero the scale with the pan attached.
I believe @rfwobbly was just suggesting with 3-5 grains of powder and differences in 9mm case weights on the same order, unless you’re really OCD and measure/record each case weight you can’t weigh a loaded round and determine the powder throw with the necessary precision.

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I understand the concerns and I was not stating you could determine powder charge, but you might be able to catch a double or no charge.

I measured 10 random Winchester 9mm cases and the measurements were between 60.7 and 62.2 grains for a max difference of 1.5 grains. Also measured 10 random 115 grain FMJ rounds which ranged between 114.7 and 115.7 for a max difference of 1 grain. So max variation is going to be 2.5 grains. Assuming the lightest case and bullet combo, you are looking at 175.4 and the heaviest combo being 177.9. While you could not get an exact powder measurement, anything wildly out of range would show up. For instance, assuming the max combination of case and bullet + a 5 grain powder charge would get you a weight of 182.9 and a minimum would give you 180.4, so, any cartridges less than 175.5 grains or more than 182.9 would be cause for alarm.

Again, this only applies to cases of the same manufacture and is not a foolproof method, but it might give you an idea of whether you have a no charge or a double charge. Admittedly, this is a very "rough" estimate, but the numbers do not lie. Even factoring in variations in case weights, this can give you an idea of an issue. The larger the powder charge, the more room there is to see an issue. The converse is also true - for light weight charges the window to detect an issue gets too small to provide useful information.

When in doubt, pull it out.

Lordpax- Great Idea! Thanks

docbrown said:

I understand the concerns and I was not stating you could determine powder charge, but you might be able to catch a double or no charge.

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I meant no affront to your post.

Understood. No offense taken.

Any day at the range is a good day!

Cool, glad everything cycled ok.

Sounds like fun.

I loaded Berry's round nose plated with 5.0 Unique 1.120. Cycles fine in our XDs.