Harriw
Member
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2018
- Messages
- 282
Hi folks,
I finally got out to try my first 9mm reloads today, and am a bit perplexed by the results. All the rounds I tested functioned properly, and though I don't have a chrono, all results seemed more-or-less as expected. Minimum powder charges had less recoil, case eject was a bit weaker than with the higher loads, etc. The first 5 rounds I tested at each step I fired by loading a single round in the magazine, and the slide locked back each and every time.
However, even at the minimum powder charge, I started noticing a little bit of primer flattening. This became more prevalent as I worked my way up to higher powder charges. However, these should be very low-pressure loads, and I was hoping to get some input on what may be going on here.
Just for background info, I've been reloading shotshells on a MEC 600 Jr. for several years (caught the skeet bug), but am new to brass reloading. For my first go, I wanted to stick to published data as much as possible. I used Hornady 115 Gr FMJ bullets (PN 35557), HS-6 powder, and loaded 10 rounds each using powder charges pulled straight from the Hornady manual. To stay on the safe side, I started at their minimum and loaded up test rounds of the next 2 steps they suggest as well, skipping the max load entirely. That'd be 10 rounds at 5.7gr, 5.9gr, and 6.2gr. These were all in wet-tumbled Federal cases, though I didn't trim them. I used Winchester primers, but as I had both magnum and regular pistol primers on hand, I loaded a 30-round set using both types of primers (I'd heard HS-6 often works better with magnum primers, and wanted to try to find a loading for both types anyway just for flexibility's sake). C.O.L. specified in the Hornady manual for this bullet is 1.100". Via plink test in my CZ-85 and Star BM, I found that i could go as long as 1.139" with this bullet without hitting the lands. So I settled on 1.130" as my target OAL to provide a bit of breathing room in terms of "plink," but still stay well above the minimum C.O.L. In the end, my rounds averaged about 1.132", varying by +/- .001 or so - i was quite pleased by the precision actually. For what it's worth, the Factory Federal rounds I like (seem to be much cleaner than the Winchester White Box in my guns) have an OAL of around 1.150." But the bullet has a different profile - seems to be a bit "pointier," so it makes sense that this would work fine with a longer OAL.
I tested both the regular SPP and magnum SPP loads today, but only fired the rounds loaded using the minimum charge, and the next charge up (that'd be 5.7 gr and 5.9 gr). I'm seeing what I'd say is fairly significant primer flattening with the 5.9gr load, and one or two rounds showing it from the 5.7gr load. Just to be safe, I packed up and didn't test any of my 6.2gr loads.
However... Both these loads are at or near the bottom of the powder charge range, and my OAL is quite a bit longer than the specified minimum - pressure shouldn't be an issue here. In addition, there don't seem to be any other signs of high pressure. Recoil, ejection, function, etc. all seem to be what I expected for a lower power load. When I got home I went over my fired cases, my un-fired 6.2gr loads, and some factory Federal rounds with my calipers. I really don't see a major discrepancy anywhere. Crimp diameter is within 0.001" on the un-fired rounds, and there's no case bulging on the fired cases. In addition, my gun was filthy... grains of unfired powder everywhere, which would also be somewhat expected from light, low-pressure loads? Everything I can measure looks good, and all signs seem to indicate this is a normal light load... except the flat primers.
I did do quite a bit of digging, and was thinking this may be a head-space problem. To test that theory, I pulled the barrel from my CZ, inserted one of my reloads, and measured length from cartridge base to barrel tip. Then I did the same with a factory federal cartridge. I see more variation from round-to-round for factory ammo than I do from factory to my reloads. Which makes sense, as this is really just measuring case length in a convoluted way... As long as my crimp isn't so tight that the case mouth slips past where it should sit in the barrel? But the diameter of my taper crimps match the factory federal rounds as well, so I don't think that's the case...
I know Winchester primers are on the "softer" side of the spectrum so maybe it wouldn't be too shocking to see flat primers from them... but I'm comparing them to the factory federal rounds I shot today, and the federal rounds don't really show any primer flattening at all... And aren't federal primers supposed to be even softer??? Or are the primers federal uses in their factory ammo different from what we buy from them for reloading?
I'm just not sure what to make of this, or where to go from here. I'm fairly sure both these loads are "safe," but at least the 5.7gr load makes a mess of my gun so I'd like to try some heavier loads... but want to make sure that's safe first.
One final note I should mention... These were loaded on a Hornady LNL AP. I was rather meticulous about setting up the powder drop, and did quite a bit of weight checking on an RCBS 505. I did notice quickly that the powder drop would vary between loading in "single stage" vs "progressive" mode (when loading one round at a time, you have 3 or 4 handle pulls to shake more powder into the measure before actually dumping it into the cartridge, where as in full progressive mode, there's only one handle pull before the powder charge gets dumped). So although I did load some of these in single-stage mode and some in progressive mode, I stuck with one mode through each set of 10 rounds, and spot-checked my powder throws as I went (I probably measured 4 out of the 10 rounds from each set). All that to say I'm fairly confident in my powder charges. But it's also possible I goofed in my measurements somehow.
Sorry to ramble on so much - just wanted to get as much information in as I could think of. I'm sure there's more I'm missing, but I'll happily provide any additional info I can. I also uploaded pictures of my fired cases... Blue headstamps are the 5.7gr loads, and green are the 5.9gr loads. The un-fired cartridges to the left are my 6.2gr loads (2 left-most columns), and Factory Federal rounds for comparison (2 right-most columns). There's also a few Federal and Winchester fired cases in the center for comparison purposes. Please note that the 2 missing primers I removed after the fact to check the primer pockets and examine the primers themselves - they weren't blown out or anything.
Regular Primers:
Magnum Primers:
Thanks very, very much for any insight any of you might have!
Thanks.
-Bill H
I finally got out to try my first 9mm reloads today, and am a bit perplexed by the results. All the rounds I tested functioned properly, and though I don't have a chrono, all results seemed more-or-less as expected. Minimum powder charges had less recoil, case eject was a bit weaker than with the higher loads, etc. The first 5 rounds I tested at each step I fired by loading a single round in the magazine, and the slide locked back each and every time.
However, even at the minimum powder charge, I started noticing a little bit of primer flattening. This became more prevalent as I worked my way up to higher powder charges. However, these should be very low-pressure loads, and I was hoping to get some input on what may be going on here.
Just for background info, I've been reloading shotshells on a MEC 600 Jr. for several years (caught the skeet bug), but am new to brass reloading. For my first go, I wanted to stick to published data as much as possible. I used Hornady 115 Gr FMJ bullets (PN 35557), HS-6 powder, and loaded 10 rounds each using powder charges pulled straight from the Hornady manual. To stay on the safe side, I started at their minimum and loaded up test rounds of the next 2 steps they suggest as well, skipping the max load entirely. That'd be 10 rounds at 5.7gr, 5.9gr, and 6.2gr. These were all in wet-tumbled Federal cases, though I didn't trim them. I used Winchester primers, but as I had both magnum and regular pistol primers on hand, I loaded a 30-round set using both types of primers (I'd heard HS-6 often works better with magnum primers, and wanted to try to find a loading for both types anyway just for flexibility's sake). C.O.L. specified in the Hornady manual for this bullet is 1.100". Via plink test in my CZ-85 and Star BM, I found that i could go as long as 1.139" with this bullet without hitting the lands. So I settled on 1.130" as my target OAL to provide a bit of breathing room in terms of "plink," but still stay well above the minimum C.O.L. In the end, my rounds averaged about 1.132", varying by +/- .001 or so - i was quite pleased by the precision actually. For what it's worth, the Factory Federal rounds I like (seem to be much cleaner than the Winchester White Box in my guns) have an OAL of around 1.150." But the bullet has a different profile - seems to be a bit "pointier," so it makes sense that this would work fine with a longer OAL.
I tested both the regular SPP and magnum SPP loads today, but only fired the rounds loaded using the minimum charge, and the next charge up (that'd be 5.7 gr and 5.9 gr). I'm seeing what I'd say is fairly significant primer flattening with the 5.9gr load, and one or two rounds showing it from the 5.7gr load. Just to be safe, I packed up and didn't test any of my 6.2gr loads.
However... Both these loads are at or near the bottom of the powder charge range, and my OAL is quite a bit longer than the specified minimum - pressure shouldn't be an issue here. In addition, there don't seem to be any other signs of high pressure. Recoil, ejection, function, etc. all seem to be what I expected for a lower power load. When I got home I went over my fired cases, my un-fired 6.2gr loads, and some factory Federal rounds with my calipers. I really don't see a major discrepancy anywhere. Crimp diameter is within 0.001" on the un-fired rounds, and there's no case bulging on the fired cases. In addition, my gun was filthy... grains of unfired powder everywhere, which would also be somewhat expected from light, low-pressure loads? Everything I can measure looks good, and all signs seem to indicate this is a normal light load... except the flat primers.
I did do quite a bit of digging, and was thinking this may be a head-space problem. To test that theory, I pulled the barrel from my CZ, inserted one of my reloads, and measured length from cartridge base to barrel tip. Then I did the same with a factory federal cartridge. I see more variation from round-to-round for factory ammo than I do from factory to my reloads. Which makes sense, as this is really just measuring case length in a convoluted way... As long as my crimp isn't so tight that the case mouth slips past where it should sit in the barrel? But the diameter of my taper crimps match the factory federal rounds as well, so I don't think that's the case...
I know Winchester primers are on the "softer" side of the spectrum so maybe it wouldn't be too shocking to see flat primers from them... but I'm comparing them to the factory federal rounds I shot today, and the federal rounds don't really show any primer flattening at all... And aren't federal primers supposed to be even softer??? Or are the primers federal uses in their factory ammo different from what we buy from them for reloading?
I'm just not sure what to make of this, or where to go from here. I'm fairly sure both these loads are "safe," but at least the 5.7gr load makes a mess of my gun so I'd like to try some heavier loads... but want to make sure that's safe first.
One final note I should mention... These were loaded on a Hornady LNL AP. I was rather meticulous about setting up the powder drop, and did quite a bit of weight checking on an RCBS 505. I did notice quickly that the powder drop would vary between loading in "single stage" vs "progressive" mode (when loading one round at a time, you have 3 or 4 handle pulls to shake more powder into the measure before actually dumping it into the cartridge, where as in full progressive mode, there's only one handle pull before the powder charge gets dumped). So although I did load some of these in single-stage mode and some in progressive mode, I stuck with one mode through each set of 10 rounds, and spot-checked my powder throws as I went (I probably measured 4 out of the 10 rounds from each set). All that to say I'm fairly confident in my powder charges. But it's also possible I goofed in my measurements somehow.
Sorry to ramble on so much - just wanted to get as much information in as I could think of. I'm sure there's more I'm missing, but I'll happily provide any additional info I can. I also uploaded pictures of my fired cases... Blue headstamps are the 5.7gr loads, and green are the 5.9gr loads. The un-fired cartridges to the left are my 6.2gr loads (2 left-most columns), and Factory Federal rounds for comparison (2 right-most columns). There's also a few Federal and Winchester fired cases in the center for comparison purposes. Please note that the 2 missing primers I removed after the fact to check the primer pockets and examine the primers themselves - they weren't blown out or anything.
Regular Primers:
Magnum Primers:
Thanks very, very much for any insight any of you might have!
Thanks.
-Bill H
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