Appendix, Crossdraw, and Reverse Cant

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ChanceMcCall

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Periodically, those making their living training will either defend or castigate appendix carry. Now I don't appendix carry so I don't have a dog in that fight. It does seem to me that the issue could be put to bed with a holster that used a reverse cant - opposite of the FBI cant. That would eliminate the concern over the accidental discharge hitting an artery.

Personally, I have used this cant for strong side carry (4 o' clock) for my primary since 1970. I believe it to be way faster than the FBI or straight up and down. It does take a hunt for a holster maker that will do it however.

My first backup is normally in a cross draw and has been for 50 years. Controversial I know, but I have never had it snatched despite several people trying because of the retention system I require in these holsters.

Have at it.
 
ChanceMcCall said:
... a holster that used a reverse cant - opposite of the FBI cant.

Personally, I have used this cant for strong side carry (4 o' clock) for my primary since 1970.
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I'm intrigued by a reverse cant (muzzle forward) worn at 4:00.

With my physique, and gun/holster experience, I'm having trouble seeing how one could do this.

Could you explain what gun/holster combination you're using, and perhaps your physical characteristics - I'm imagining long arms and extreme flexibility to make that work.

Edit to add: Just so I'm clear in my mind, you are a righty wearing this muzzle forward cant holster strong side at 4:00, correct?
 
JTQ said:
I'm intrigued by a reverse cant (muzzle forward) worn at 4:00.

With my physique, and gun/holster experience, I'm having trouble seeing how one could do this.

Could you explain what gun/holster combination you're using, and perhaps your physical characteristics - I'm imagining long arms and extreme flexibility to make that work.

Edit to add: Just so I'm clear in my mind, you are a righty wearing this muzzle forward cant holster strong side at 4:00, correct?
Click to expand...

You are correct. I'm not overweight. For clarification, I am wearing the holster on the belt, not inside the waistband. I guess I have fairly long arms - size 35 sleeves. The gun is a Springfield Armory XDs but I have carried, in years past, other guns that way. I might have misspoke about 4 o' clock - more like 3:30. The holster is a. custom.
 
Thanks. That helps my understanding a bit - tall guy, with short barreled gun, and the holster really closer to 3:30.

My experience as a short guy, with a Government Model 1911, makes even a straight drop at 4:00 difficult to get my hand on the grip, and nearly impossible for me to draw from. I expect I'd have difficulty just getting my hand on the grip of a gun in a reverse cant holster at 4:00, let alone drawing from it, especially something sized like a Government size 1911, which due to my experiences, I was envisioning.
 
A backwards cant would make a shooting grip from the holster impossible if you are right handed.

Putting a reverse cant on an appendix would be pointing the gun at the inside of your left leg (if right handed).

I don't get it.
Maybe post pics?
 
Corpral_Agarn said:
A backwards cant would make a shooting grip from the holster impossible if you are right handed.

Putting a reverse cant on an appendix would be pointing the gun at the inside of your left leg (if right handed).

I don't get it.
Maybe post pics?
Click to expand...

I am not technically advanced enough to post pictures. I know how - just don't have a digital camera or phone with a camera. Sorry.

It does work, but getting the holster made is a pain because most holster manufacturers are too busy to accept this type of work. I think if you think about it, except for really ripped people, if the cant is properly angled, there is no way a round would hit their leg. In full disclaimer, I am sort of visualizing this and have zero first hand experience with this idea. I have seen people with heavily modified Bond Arms driving holsters changed from cross draw to strong side draw (on the belt) that would certainly work that way.
 
ChanceMcCall said:
I am not technically advanced enough to post pictures. I know how - just don't have a digital camera or phone with a camera. Sorry.

It does work, but getting the holster made is a pain because most holster manufacturers are too busy to accept this type of work. I think if you think about it, except for really ripped people, if the cant is properly angled, there is no way a round would hit their leg. In full disclaimer, I am sort of visualizing this and have zero first hand experience with this idea. I have seen people with heavily modified Bond Arms driving holsters changed from cross draw to strong side draw (on the belt) that would certainly work that way.
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What kind of draw speeds are you looking at with the 3:30 and reverse cant?
I still can't visualize that cant with that position.

Reverse cant on a OWB holster at 2 oclock is a little easier for me to visualize.

With my straight appendix holster, from concealment I am putting a round on an 8x11 sheet of paper at 7yards in just over a second (1.10 on averaged).
 
Corpral_Agarn said:
Reverse cant on a OWB holster at 2 oclock is a little easier for me to visualize.
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While I wouldn't say this is common, there are quite a few reverse cant holsters available (probably most are designed as cross draw holsters), but they are predominately carried at 2:00 (ish), like you say, if carried strong side, and are not intended for aft of the hip carry as the OP is able to use - which even at 3:30 still amazes me that he can do it.

The typical "book answer" for holster design and carry is straight drop or muzzle forward is used for forward of the hip, and FBI cant is typically used for aft of the hip. However, I will acknowledge everybody is different and what works for some may not work for others.
 
Whenever folks talk about AIWB, I always think back to the Milt Spark's Summer Special. It was designed by Bruce Nelson to carry his Colt Commander AIWB under a loose shirt.

I also can't imagine a forward cant holster worn behind the point of the hip (3 o"clock)
 
9mmepiphany said:
Whenever folks talk about AIWB, I always think back to the Milt Spark's Summer Special. It was designed by Bruce Nelson to carry his Colt Commander AIWB under a loose shirt.
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Sparks is now offering a 50th Anniversary edition of the Summer Special honoring this

https://www.miltsparks.com/products-summer-special.php

We are celebrating our 50th anniversary in 2019. For 2019 only, we are offering a Summer Special holster with a carved top band. The carver is the same local saddle maker that carves our special edition 200AWs and HSRs. These Summer Special holsters feature the traditional single loop that they were originally designed with and will be available for 5" 1911s and Commanders only. Each one will feature our 50th anniversary stamp. These holsters are available for to order until December 31, 2019.
Click to expand...
 
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